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Ian Ellison-Taylor and Kevin Gjerstad on WPF 3.5 SP1

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Dr. Sneath speaks with Ian Ellison-Taylor and Kevin Gjerstad about new improvements and features in WPF 3.5 Service Pack 1.  Topics of the conversation range from Graphics, Deployment, Performance, Application Model and Tools.  And while discussing the current state and the future of WPF a few applications are mentioned including Lawson "Mango" and Yahoo Messenger.

Not only does this video provide you with a great overview of WPF 3.5 SP1, but it is kicking off WPF Week on Channel 9.  Each day this week we’ll be publishing a video focused on one area of WPF to give you a detailed look at what’s new.


 

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  • When did WPF get to 3.5? I thought it was 1.0.
  • Christian Liensbergerlittleguru <3 Seattle
    DigitalDud wrote:
    When did WPF get to 3.5? I thought it was 1.0.


    Jumped right into it.
  • Ah, good point - we should be clearer about what we're talking about here.  v1 of WPF shipped first as part of .Net 3.0 (and included in Vista), our next version was in .Net 3.5 and what we're talking about here is our 3rd release as part of .Net 3.5 SP1.

    Sorry for the confusion,

    Ian.
  • The 3.5 refers to the .net version.  The problem I saw with the additions of WPF that shipped with .net 3.5 has to do with the documentation.  The documentation of the WPF base release is generally pretty good.  The documentation for the first set of additions is skimpy at best and not integrated with the base documentation.  You need to a better job with the documentation of future additions.
  • Martin Ennemosermawcc Make it so
    After reading Scott Guthrie's (excellent as usual) description of all the updates in VS 2008 & .NET Framework 3.5 SP1, it seems as if WPF gets more updates from 3.5 RTM to 3.5 SP1 as it has from 3.0 RTM to 3.5 RTM.

    So the versioning might seem a little bit odd, but of course WPF is part of the larger .NET Framework and thus doesn't have it's own version numbers.
  • figuerresfiguerres ???
    SOunds almost like .Net 3.6 and VS 2008 + .5

    lot's of good stuff in them bits...

    now just gotta wait for them to bake and cool off to use them Smiley

    I have an app on 60 desktops that I want to move from .net 2.0 to 3.5 soon... must find out if the boot strap will work for a low-trust user account ??

  • figuerresfiguerres ???
    Ian Ellison-Taylor wrote:
    Ah, good point - we should be clearer about what we're talking about here.  v1 of WPF shipped first as part of .Net 3.0 (and included in Vista), our next version was in .Net 3.5 and what we're talking about here is our 3rd release as part of .Net 3.5 SP1.

    Sorry for the confusion,

    Ian.


    I just posted and if not covered in the video:

    Can a non-admin user who does not have full access but has a .net 2.0 app today get an update that will boot-strap to .net 3.5 and then get the app w/o an admin logon??

    it's a click once app on about 60 pc's that are in remote locations.

    if an admin login is required then it will take days to update them.

    so to recap:

    can I boot-strap from a click once  app with net 2.0 to a new version of the app with .net 3.5 with a limited user account?
  • PerfectPhasePerfectPhase "This is not war, this is pest control!" - Dalek to Cyberman
    mawcc wrote:
    After reading Scott Guthrie's (excellent as usual) description of all the updates in VS 2008 & .NET Framework 3.5 SP1, it seems as if WPF gets more updates from 3.5 RTM to 3.5 SP1 as it has from 3.0 RTM to 3.5 RTM.


    Looks like DBPro's not getting any love Sad
  • Chris PietschmannCRPietschma​nn Chris Pietschmann
    Why would you add new features in a service pack to the framework? Why not just release a feature pack now, then bake those features into the next point release of the framework?

    By adding new features in a service pack, you'll generate potential confusion. I'll say my app requires .NET 3.5, but then I'm using some SP1 features, then my client installs the app and it doesn't work because they don't have SP1 installed.

    I can understand improving performace in a service pack, but why add new features to a service pack? Why not release them in a feature pack, like how the ASP.NET team did with the ASP.NET AJAX Extensions v1.0?
  • The big issues was that we wanted to make some core performance improvements so we couldn't do just a pure feature pack. We could have separated the fixes from the features but got feedback from ISVs early on that it was better to just put them together in to a single release.

    I do appreciate the confusion though so this is definitely something we'll re-think for future versions. Do other folks agree we should keep things separate in the future?

    Thanks,

    Ian.
  • figuerres wrote:
    

    Can a non-admin user who does not have full access but has a .net 2.0 app today get an update that will boot-strap to .net 3.5 and then get the app w/o an admin logon??



    Unfortunately not. This update at least makes some core changes and so requires admin privs. We definitely get this request *a lot* though and it is something we're moving towards (it's just really hard to engineer).

    Sorry,

    Ian.
  • Klaus EnevoldsenKlaus Enevoldsen Development has never been easier nor more ​complicated.​..
    Ribbon control in WPF! YES!!! Finally!!! Big Smile
  • Vesuviusvesuvius Count Orlock
    Klaus Enevoldsen wrote:
    Ribbon control in WPF! YES!!! Finally!!!

    The only criticism I have, is when the controls are released. Tim uses the euphemism "out-of-band" in his blog, but also states that Line Of Business applications are taking up WPF rapaciously.

    Why the silverlight beta included the datagrid, but this does not is a mystery? I need to get compos-mentes with this control (and the ribbon) for my smart client applications, but am having to wait.

    One cannot diminish the phenomenal improvements to a plethora of issues that have kept me in windows forms for LOB applications. If you try the piteous WPF controls from e.g. http://www.componentone.com/ staying with windows forms becomes the easiest of decisions. Forget about a dog running with three legs, more a dog with half a leg. For now it will be another 3 to 6 months till some of the essential controls become available. What a shame!
  • figuerresfiguerres ???
    Ian Ellison-Taylor wrote:
    
    figuerres wrote:
    

    Can a non-admin user who does not have full access but has a .net 2.0 app today get an update that will boot-strap to .net 3.5 and then get the app w/o an admin logon??



    Unfortunately not. This update at least makes some core changes and so requires admin privs. We definitely get this request *a lot* though and it is something we're moving towards (it's just really hard to engineer).

    Sorry,

    Ian.


    I understand the issues,

    Please If we can get more info on what it can/can't do etc...

    for example can we setup a "reboot" / "runOnce" to do that perhaps?

  • Can't load the file. I don't get the Download/WMA/MP3 options on the page.
  • is it safe to install VS 2008 SP1 Beta on a development machine? I mean we all know Visual Studio is a very heavy piece of software, I don't want to remove the whole thing just to remove SP1 Smiley
  • Allan LindqvistaL_ Kinect ftw

    sweeet Smiley

     

    i have one question though, where exactly do you post feedback? the msdn forums are vast and im always feeling im posting in the wrong place Smiley is there a prefered place there? or is connect the way to go? i havent found a connect project for .net or wpf as a whole (if there is one please link Smiley )

  • CKurtCKurt while( ( !​succeed=try​() ) ) { }
    Uhm, problem :

    Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 SP1 (Beta) does not apply, or is blocked by another condition on your system. Please click the link below for more details.

    So i can't click NEXT Sad

    UPDATE:

    Fixed it, had to uninstall Silverlight Tools Beta 1 (got to love those bèta's) and uninstall KB949325
  • figuerres wrote:
    
    I understand the issues,

    Please If we can get more info on what it can/can't do etc...

    for example can we setup a "reboot" / "runOnce" to do that perhaps?



    I'm not entirely sure, let me check and get back to you. Around here we do distribute admin-level software using SMS to machines that are locked-down so I know it's possible but I don't know how it works!

    Ian.
  • Ion Todirel wrote:
    is it safe to install VS 2008 SP1 Beta on a development machine? I mean we all know Visual Studio is a very heavy piece of software, I don't want to remove the whole thing just to remove SP1


    I'd be a little carefull with any beta software and I know some folks have had issues uninstalling. For me, it's worked just fine so it might for you too but I always recommend a VPC, or a complete backup just in case!

    Ian.
  • aL_ wrote:
    

    i have one question though, where exactly do you post feedback? the msdn forums are vast and im always feeling im posting in the wrong place is there a prefered place there? or is connect the way to go? i havent found a connect project for .net or wpf as a whole (if there is one please link )



    General feedback here is just fine. For more specific feedback on VS you can use http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowForum.aspx?ForumID=2136&SiteID=1 or for WPF specifically just use the regular WPF forum http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowForum.aspx?ForumID=119&SiteID=1 and maybe put "SP1" somewhere in the title.

    For connect, we come under the general "Visual Studio and .Net Framework" at http://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio


    Thanks,

    Ian.
  • I would suggest a better describing name.

    Why don't you call a ServicePack 'SP<number>' (SP1) and a feature pack 'FP<number>' (FP1) and when combined 'UP<number>' (UP1) where UP stands for update pack.[A]

    We use this system for a while now and it's (for us...) quite clear.

    Regards Johan Visser

  • I can understand improving performace in a service pack, but why add new features to a service pack? Why koxp not release them in a feature pack, like how the ASP.NET team did with the ASP.NET AJAX Extensions v1.0?

     

    Yeah ?? tolga ???

  • polispolis

    I can understand improving performace in a service pack
     
    <a href="http://www.cafepolis.net">polis</a>

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