Entries:
Comments:
Posts:

Loading User Information from Channel 9

Something went wrong getting user information from Channel 9

Latest Achievement:

Loading User Information from MSDN

Something went wrong getting user information from MSDN

Visual Studio Achievements

Latest Achievement:

Loading Visual Studio Achievements

Something went wrong getting the Visual Studio Achievements

Exploring the new Domain-Specific Language (DSL) Tools with Stuart Kent

Download

Right click “Save as…”

Domain-Specific Language Tools allow Visual Studio 2005 developers to create their own graphical designers and code generation tools like the ones you find in Visual Studio today, such as the Class Designer. In this interview Brian Keller chats with Stuart Kent, a senior program manager on the Visual Studio Team System team, who gives us a tour of the DSL tools and creates an example DSL from scratch.

Tags:

Follow the Discussion

  • thewizsterthewizster Life is Good Here in Big D...
    Cool Stuff!
  • sweeeet
  • JaspJasp This is me looking happy
    If this can do what I think it can do, then this is massive!
  • Jasp wrote:
    If this can do what I think it can do, then this is massive!


    I can't agree more. This is a major step forward.
  • I don't like the name. This is such a great technology that the name "DSL Tools" doesn't convey the message at all.

  • Nice presentation Stuart! Where is the book? Smiley
  • dudenumber4dudenumber4 Corporate Cog
    Way too much detail about building one of these thingies.  I need a detailed example of the use of one.  I don't quite get the big picture. 

    What's the crossover between this and Workflow Foundation?
  • The bigger picture...

    If someone wrote a "hello world" thing (class/type/whatever aka thing) and wanted everyone in the company to have and use it logically the creator ("you" in this example) would put it in the highest possible scope, right?  That scope would be company-wide, right?  What is company wide; well its the domain. 

    So if this company was "msdn.com" and you worked for channel9 and for simplicity lets say channel9 inherits all from the parent company.  In other words placing hello world at msdn.com would give everyone at channel9.msdn.com the "thing" as well. 

    All tech questions have a catch, which I call "depends" (just like the diapers its a catch all).  So the depends answer is based on the trust levels between domains.  (Note sure if any of this is legally true, but just run with the example to illustrate the concept.) Basically, since channel9 is a sub-company of microsoft (aka microsoft.com) the trust between domains dicates how hello world could be passed there as well.  However, it would not go to "apple.com" for it is limited to domains.

    Hope that made any sense.  

    Workflow diagram are different in that you could use domain specific language (dsl) to create the rules that the workflow must follow or modify any aspect of it.  Think of it like the tool used to create the workflow foundation.  The depends is based on the eulas and I have no clue if it was created with it, but that is its level of power.  Hope that helps...

  • Hey,

    Interesting technology, just wanna know if the DSL tool also aplies for web applications ?
  • I've just been pointed at this feedback. Didn't know it existed.

    Details on the book can be found at www.domainspecificdevelopment.com
  • The designer that ships with the windows workflow foundation is quite tightly tied to the runtime. It's also not built using DSL Tools.

    You can use DSL Tools to build workflow like designers which can put to any purpose, and are not tied to the WF runtime.

    For example, if you wanted to build a workflow designer for business process modeling, or say to model scenarios when doing requirements capture, then you'd use DSL Tools to create it. You might then translate those models into a form that could be consumed by WF, for those aspects of the business workflows that you wanted to automate.

    Hope that helps.

    --Stuart Kent (MSFT)
  • Dear Stuart
    I just watched your video, it’s really great. I wanted to ask that if it is possible to have the designer hosted in my application instead of having it hosted in "Experimental Copy of Visual Studio" as you referred to it in your video. I basically want the business user to be able to use DSL  Designer(the one that appeared by pressing F5) from within my application at runtime. And would you please guide me as to what extent the WF are able to support the concept of DSL, after all what we do there is also to build a Domain Specific Language (Correct me if I am wrong). 

  • Hi Stuart,

    after reading so many MS documents about DSL and watching your  movie still it is hard for me to get the full big picture of the technology.

    you know that a perfect DSL tool should create final codes with minimum meta data and give the developer maximum customization possibility without loosing anything after re-generating code.

    First of all, you need diffrent UI tools to see your model. the current default designer is not enough for all scenarios. and some times a Tree and Grid view is a perfect  media to show and  modify the model.
    I know about DSL powertoy but DSL designer needs some basic default editors in place without asking users to add their own editors.

    There is a company named MetaCase that they are making DSL tools for a while.
    they have a good feature matrix  to  compare  DSL tools.
    this is the page:
    http://www.metacase.com/mwb/tool_comparison.html

    Could you please compare MS DSL Tachnology against this matrix?

    I beleive this feature matrix is an excelent thing to compare DSL tools.

    Thanks
  • Hello Charles,

    I liked this new tool, and I really enjoy using it.

    Although I have the same question with "moazrub".

    I want to embed the designer into my aplication, and control it, getting the model when the user finishes the drawing.

    I was reading the book "Domain-Specific Development with Visual Studio DSL Tools" by Steve Cook, Gareth Jones et al.
    In chapter 10 "Advanced DSL Customization" subchapter "Building the DSL Diagram into Another Interface", we read that it is possible to embed a Docview, but mentions nothing about using the whole designer, and getting the model back.

    In other words, is it possible to use my own application instead the "Experimental Copy of Visual Studio Hive"??
    Does DSL tools and GMF (http://www.eclipse.org/gmf/) share some common functionality? or even better is ALL the GMF functionality included-provided by DSL tools?


    Thank you in advance,

    Apone.
  • What happened to this video? It's gone. The duration says 0:00:00 and when you click 'watch' it can't seem to find the file.

    This is the only video on the web right now which explains how to work with DSL tools. Sigh !!
  • What happened to the movie? Is it just me or has the video disappered?

    Thanks

    Yair
  • Can't find the video too.Sad

  • There are other videos on DSL at:
    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/cc296539.aspx
    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/cc302400.aspx
    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/cc197965.aspx

    Enjoy!

Remove this comment

Remove this thread

close

Comments Closed

Comments have been closed since this content was published more than 30 days ago, but if you'd like to continue the conversation, please create a new thread in our Forums,
or Contact Us and let us know.