London Niners: Tour, Drinks and Debate
- Posted: Oct 02, 2006 at 10:52 AM
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- 77 Comments
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Charles was in London a few months ago and had the honor of meeting some London Niners: Sabot (and his lovely wife), Blowdart, and Irascian. In this video, Sabot and wife give Charles a brief tour of London including a ride on the world's largest ferris
wheel (at least it sure seems like it...) also known as the London Eye. Then, we meet up with Blowdart and Irascian for some beers and good conversation about, among other things, Channel 9 - The Good, Bad and Ugly.
Enjoy! (As always, this is unedited and raw 
)
Thanks for the great time, London Niners!
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C
You must have felt right at home with all that rain yae? lol.
Regards,
Vincent
Lou and I had a lot of fun that day.
I hope you'll be back soon, there is plenty we didn't get to show you that is cool too. Give us enough warning next time and we'll sort a Geek Dinner and you can meet some more of the guys and girls of UK C9 and the development community here.
Lou and I, love showing people around London, so if anyone else wants to have a little tour we would be more than willing to oblige ... and you don't have to have a camera around for C9!
Take care,
Dave & Lou
Maybe there should be a more comprehensive independant "blog search" site dedicated to Microsoft stuff. For example you could have a section called "Office" and under that section is all the bloggers and all the little sites that Microsoft has, and maybe users could tag information.
It's kinda already being done with MSDN but personally to me that site is a little too much "OMGWTFLOOKLOOKLOOOK!!!!" for me.
Hopefully, I'll make it back to London soon.
C
So that would make them "Eye-pods"?
I'm amazed Steve J hasn't primed the lawyerpult already
(Although I'm not sure about the relative chronology, there could be prior art there...even better
It does look cool though...up until now I've been thinking "great big ferris wheel - that's so....tasteful" but now I definitely want to give it a go next time I'm in London.
On the subject of some of the issues raised towards the end: someone needs to think of a reason for a .NET 3.0 API for Windows Genuine Advantage.
Then we'd have a Windows Bondage Foundation, and I think the world needs that.
Microsoft is this massive creative mussle, not only programs, but articles, updates, blogs and it's all just appearing all over Microsoft, MSDN, tech net and related websites.
What I want is a website that has categories like a filing cabinet so I can see all the new content that is in that category.
Ok, so the categories can be broad thats ok but I just would like to have some kind of way to find the stuff I need and not sift through all the stuff to find what I want to get to.
Just in case anyone's interested the Larkware site that Dave mentioned (which each day summarises interesting stuff found on the web for .NET developers) can be found here: http://www.larkware.com/ - definitely worth subscribing to their feed and checking the daily update if you're a .NET developer.
I'll bet someone at Microsoft was thinking, "just how much money exactly are we paying to put this stuff online?" while you guys were coming up with a voice for the Channel 9 Guy, and again later during the bondage thing.
... but Barry is better looking than Bill Hill?
Your wife wants me and you're scared
Naw, we'd discuss bondage for free
C
Let us (me, Tensor, Ross, etc) know if you ever stop by at Manchester or Liverpool airport
I'm still watching the video, I've seen 10 minutes of it so far, I'll watch the rest tomorrow.
Excellent!
More brits on channel 9 please
Interesting stuff at the end of that conversation.
What would make things better - and this is strictly my opinion, take it for what it's worth - would be tighter security, so that Charles and the other active admins don't have to babysit the site so much.
Please note that although Irascian is a proponent of light-to-no-moderation, yet he feels that Charles should not un-ban beer28...this seems a bit confusing. I am with Irascian on this, don't unban him...if anything, tighten his chains even more.
No.
C
Maybe there's a case for an intelligent(-ish) tag-enabled aggregator of Microsoft tech content (perhaps a live.com gadget? I'll think of a reason for one sooner or later).
A RoboScoble if you will.
Fdisk, you're becoming extremeley tiresome lately. What exactly is your point? As it happens the video was recorded on a Sunday afternoon/evening, but your comment is ridiculous anyway.
As for the moderation question, things can turn into a witch hunt very quickly (just look at some of the responses in that competition thread). What people who keep crying for moderation are really saying is they can't turn the other cheek or ignore people who say stupid things. Whenever this subject has come up it's usually been "I should be a moderator because Charles is never here". In my experience moderation ends up starting more flame wars than the posts that allegedly were the reason for its introduction. Look at some of the abuse that's been aimed at the moderators here in the past just because they've gently chided someone for a post. That situation will get a hundred times worse if you start acceding to the "I wanna be special so I've got something to brag about - make me a moderator" brigage
Beer28 was something else in that he totally dominated the forums and turned trying to destroy the place into a full-time job. Worse he started threatening people off the boards with time-wasting legal threats etc. The guy had a screw loose and got to the stage where he didn't deserve anybody's respect. I can't really think of anybody else in the several years I've been here who came close (well, OK, possibly orbit86). He was the exception that proved the rule!
If you want guys, I'm more than happy to get in the car with the a video camera and film you if you want. Then I can send the tape to Charles or it digitally what ever format is required. Or we could just stick it up on YouTube as 100% community thing.
It'll give me a chance to meet you, have a few beers and a laugh.
I'm free the weekend of the Oct 28th/29th? So what do you say? Are you up for it?
Ian/Barry/Sarah wanna come ?
A weekend with you? Up north?
I must have been wicked in a former life.
Actually what about DDD#4? That might be an interesting idea.
Fully intend to do DDD day 4. I did 3, but only managed to find W3bbo.
However, another weekend would be fun too, and I am free that weekend. I'd suggest York, but that is because I live there.
It's probably one of the best video's that C9 have done in a very long time... possibly ever... it had me laughing LOTS!
DDD4 is a good idea! I will be about! (and there is a geek dinner after it too!)
Bloody hell!When I was in UK I was very angry about this country (there was a lot of reasons, beleive me). But now, watching this video... I want back to UK again! Why? Does things like that happening with everyone or just me?
I have to say when I was in London, I also went to most of the places where Charles went;)
Sheva
That's his wife. We've not met his girlfriend
Sheva
Sheva
Edit: I used to believe in this site and the people here (until I actually met them, which really opened my eyes). I am also extremely capable as a coder, a semi-decent software architect, and a few other things so before you launch into another diatribe, I'll tell you that this site has done more to wreck my image of microsoft than anything else.
Careful there, I'm reading [6]
Hey Oliver you know I think you're cool! I voted for all your sessions! ... and I'm not the only one ... you are so presenting pal!
If not ... I'll get the beers in!
Then why are you still here?
Being cool on C9 doesn't get you hired by Microsoft, I doesn't really help either.
What helps you get hired is being good at the job they are hiring you for.
With the C9 positions, there was more than one, what stopped you from going for one of them? Is the kind of thing that C9 is asking the kind of thing you do? It's all well in and good being a decent coder or Arch if you are really bad at holding a conversation and making a good interview.
Ian and I have been around Microsoft long enough to know they aren't perfect.
IMO there has been a sea-change in recent years and C9 reflects that thinking, Microsoft has internal battles about this kind of things which we don't see.
I work in the same part of the Microsoft-world as Charles but in the UK and am part of the team which supports activities like Developer Developer Developer (DDD4).
Firstly, it's cool to see a strong UK prescence on 9 and I didn't even realise Charles was planning a London trip (even though we were having beers in Agra, India a week or two before)
Do you think it would be valuable if we put on a specific C9 thang/corner/get-together at DDD4? Drop me a mail at markjo@microsoft.com and we can start to organise something and I can approach the powers that be
MarkJ
Have you got a camera???
If you'd spent more than 5 minutes here you'd know that working for Microsoft is the last thing I want to do (nothing against Microsoft it's just that having worked for IBM, Amdahl, Oracle, Ford and a whole bunch of other companies in the past I feel I've "been there, done that"). Not that I haven't had friends inside who've tried to persuade me to go for interview. I prefer being my own boss although age will undoubtedly start making that more difficult as time goes on.
I too have been a coder, a software architect and a bunch of other things. None of which bears any relevance to posting stupid comments like "Does this constitute drinking on company time?". What exactly was the point you were trying to make, other than to make some pathetic snarky comment? And so what if it HAD been on company time (as stated above, it wasn't) - who cares?
I see absolutely nothing in Sabot's post (to which your quote above was a reply) that would indicate that. Your posts on the other hand.....
Well thanks for making my day!
I've been self-employed as a "developer/lead developer" for the last 10 years (spent a brief period as an architect but missed the hands-on and took a rate cut to move back to being lead developer in that same organisation). The longest down time I've had between contracts has been 4 weeks (my choice - I wanted to go to New Zealand) so yeah, I still write code and people seem to be happy to keep paying me to keep writing code and (touch wood) renewing a contract has never been a problem - when I've left a company it's always been my choice.
I think the problem for most of my clients over the last 10 years is they've typically hired all those wet-behind-the-ears youngsters who are too focussed on what's "cool" rather than what's cost-effective or what their customers want, so they hire an old fart like me to pick up the pieces of disasterous projects and mentor the silly young puppies
I'm flattered! Miss you too, mate. Not going to make Tech-Ed this year but seriously thinking about Mix-07 as I've never been to Vegas and it's a chance to mix business with pleasure. Hopefully you might be there with Channel 9?
Hard for me to commit to anything at the moment - things are incredibly manic on the work front with a deadline at the end of October that can't be moved. I've also (somewhat optimistically given the work situation) got a ton of stuff on with the London Film Festival which continues through that weekend.
DDD4 will be better for me, or if you push things over into November I'm hoping to have a free weekend then and could manage a trip oop North.
You're still sulking 'cos I said I didn't fancy you, aren't you!
I'm not a "huggy" person other than with people I know really, really well. Or with women who offer a hug first and seem far less hung up about that sort of thing than guys.
Sure do! I bought one for the UK Imagine Cup guys who you may/may not have seen here on C9. Then didn't really need it as we got to do it for 'real' in Redmond with Charles
And I see trends.
Must. Not. Barf.
fdisk, grow up and stop trying to run threads into the ground.
I was planning to try and make it to DDD4 and was even considering driving down anyone from up North who might want to go down - but I was only going to go to heckle Blowdart
I still think we should have a Euro geek meet or try and get some of the European Niners to DDD4 and make a weekend of it.
I recently moved to London and it was cool seeing some of the niners based in the UK.
hehe, Charles got real quiet when all the 3rd parties started talking trash at Waterloo station.
Excellent video, thanks C9!
You might be a bit less likely to barf if you knew that Ian and I have been friends to some extent for a while now - we've kept in contact through email, and I genuinely miss his company even though I only got to hang out with him for a little while.
He's a nice guy. Enthusiastic. And he welcomes you to his country with Dr. Who swag
Can't really beat that.
I wanted to listen to them, rather than spray my opinion on them. To me, listening to Niners (to any customer, really) in a neutral setting, like a pub in a London train station, is a great way to learn about what matters to people who rely on our software. I thought they had great points about WGA and emotional feedback is just as important (in my opinion) as automated bits and bytes and crash data.
C
22:48 awwwwww
24:50 ian!
26:00 spot the looney hahahahahahahahahahahahha
31:00 agreed. too many places for info. c9 - one site to rule them all
34:00 no moderation. <minh> a bit of chaos is good
39:00 tags could be good
*all times: you are all english! you could say anything and i would love it!
50:00 role pulling? whatever. hire them all! *blowdart - make a c9park!!!
55:00 sabot "check over and over" agreed
58:00 i share in that paranoia
1.01: id probably stay with any company that phoned me the second i quit them
anyway - great vid. great shots - and great insites
ps - ian - you look so ...OLD hahahah KIDDING
what are you 43?
Ian, you know, it's quite unusual in China to have old man like you still write code, there is an old saying in Chinese software industry, it goes like: if you cannot get promoted before the age of 33, you've got no chane in this trade, you should quit...
So, Ian, could you please tell me how many old men in your age who still write code in your country?
Sheva
I have little to no artistic talent. I know my limitations!
From the video, I know you are a funny guy, why not bring your girlfriend or wife with you that day?
Sheva
Coleraine.
I like some of the people I've met there, shame Melita moved, but pah, not technical, can't present? My arse
Mind you Ed Gibson did call me hilarious last month when I was on a round table discussion with him.
You missed the divorce comment then? *sigh*
Good video - it made me think, it made me laugh, but mostly it made me thirsty.
Ahhhhhhh, the land of university layabouts and cheddar. Spent too many afternoons in Portstewart/rush drinking with mates at UUC.
Melita has since departed these fine shores for her native land, good move I say if Lord of the Rings is anything to go by
If you ever see me at a Microsoft shindig/event then drop by and say hi
I do think that MSUK needs to do somemore videos of the C9 UK'ers and send them to charles.
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but you're right it's very quickly become obvious that we have another troll in our midst.
I was specifically talking about Beer, Orbit 86 and then Eagle - people who post many many threads that people could never stop from responding to. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think fdisk has posted that many threads.
I think when someone's only made a few postings you have to give them the benefit of the doubt, otherwise you end up with situations like the guy who posted in the last day or two he was afraid of posting because "half" (!!!) the people who post here get called trolls. There have been days when someone new has come in, posted on a "sensitive" subject and immediately got flamed unnecessarily.
great video. What's next? Japan, Mexico?
I did learn one huge thing. It's not eye-AN its eeeYAeN!
Hello Dave,
I hope you're not getting too warm and cuddly with anyone in this video. You know what redheads are like!!!
MadOne
Re: the discussion on WGA
While I haven’t done any footwork to confirm my theory... I suspect that WGA is really just ‘activating’ your PC again with the same rules that apply to the initial activation.
Example: A buddy of mine had a pirated copy of Windows (that was installed for him by the guy that built the PC (not a shop)) and getting sick of a couple of issues (pre WGA) that kept him from updating, he installed the copy of Windows XP that came with his GF’s laptop. All was well... until WGA started nagging him.
I’ve seen cases in past where the regular activation didn't take too kindly to PC oscillation... that is to say where one activates on PC1, then later on PC2, and then again later on PC1 again... or even PC3. Heck, I ran into this when I built my new PC back in February where previously I had recently activated my copy of XP multiple times on the old PC... but suddenly when I moved to the new one it said NO! All I had to do to keep the online activation from screaming wait to wait a couple of months to get the activation servers to forget about the old PC (which no longer had this copy installed onto it).
I suspect that WGA does a similar thing... by forcing PC’s to call home more often, it is easier to detect multiple installs that occurred say... 6 months apart and which might not be caught by the initial activation.
Edited by Charles: MadOne - Yellow card.
Thanks Mike
Ping me when you're over ... it's not a problem.
DDD4 would be a cool place to meet up as there is a likelihood of more 9'ers being there!
Actually Barry you've been bad in this life! [6]
I think it's the best video ever as well too
DDD4Oliver Sturm day is going to be way coool!Ian is a great guy!
Thanks, yes my wife is really cute!
Btw. whats up with Dave, and all the monkeys? I know he doesnt give monkeys, but anyways?
It's a very British/London expression, it's intent is not aggressive or offensive, it's meaning is 'Make it happen and I the detail is up to you'.
My thinking at the time was that lets take a step back and look at the requirement for WGA ... lets not wonder about how we make it technically happen, that comes next.
At the time the user experience for WGA was not good. I understand the need for WGA, thats fair enough, but did not like certain implementation aspects such as the inability to remember who I am.
On reflection ... WGA is ok ... it performs an important role and many of my comments have really gone away. To be honest it's not often I encounter a WGA check and it's not really an inconvenience.
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