Jeffrey Snover - Monad demonstrated
- Posted: Oct 19, 2004 at 10:50 AM
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Last week you saw
Jeffrey Snover talking about Monad here on Channel 9. Here's his demo of Monad. Monad is the code-name for a new command shell for Windows.
In this video Jeffrey talks about the five concepts of Monad that you'll need to know to get started.
In this video Jeffrey talks about the five concepts of Monad that you'll need to know to get started.
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The only thing it's still missing compared to bash in that regard is that it won't work on files in your path, only in the current directory. I wonder if this fixes it. I can't check, because I can neither install the preview nor watch the video, as my computer is acting really really strange. I'm currently working in Knoppix, and it's gone for about 25 minutes now without crashing, which is the best it's done all day. In fact, the previous three attempts in Knoppix all crashed within 30 seconds. At least Windows consistently gives me 3 minutes before giving up.
Looks like a hardware defect, yes, although I can't explain why it's suddenly gone away it seems. If it lasts till the half hour I'm going to boot Windows back up and try my luck with that one more time.
Really? Cool! (Still on Windows 2000 here.)
I see a lot of my favorite command filters (though renamed: tail -> pick-tail, for example.) Great.
Is there a grep (perhaps by a different name?) Any kind of regular-expression support?
C:\Windows> edit w*.log
If you hit tab it will search through all the different .log files starting with W. Works great in my experience.
--Drevlan
I'm probably being too picky, but I was hoping it would have a richer CLI UI rather than being so similar to cmd.exe (one big textbox). It doesn't need to be a very visual GUI, but there are areas where UI controls can enhance the CLI experience. I know purests might cringe at adding any UI elements (even menu bars), but they can be added without making them necessary to using the tool
WOW!
Learn something new every day.
"I'm probably being too picky, but I was hoping it would have a richer CLI UI rather than being so similar to cmd.exe"
Yes, many using the beta wish the same including myself. They are focused on RC1 and have a lot of work in the nuts and bolts. They currently view cli ui as something that can come latter. The current UI is the same one any console APP uses. MSH.exe is just a plain old c# app that loads DLLs. The MSH engine is a collection of DLLs that the MSH console app hosts. You will probably see many user attempts at MSH hosts/GUI/CUI apps. Actually, there is a few beta users that are working on their own hosts. Myself, I would like to see something similar to the SQL command utils. Where you have a command window and a results window, etc. As a c# user, I would also like to see deep integration of msh into the cmd/immediate windows and internal scripting in VS.Net.
cmdlets are user commands (c# dlls) that msh invokes and your dll becomes part of the pipeline for inspection or injection in the pipeline.
--
wjs, mvp
Funny you should mention that...I wrote my own CLR app (for communicating with a multi-component distributed app) that is similar (piping, including scripts, everything's an object) but has a mIRC-like interface (input textbox on the bottom and output text above, but I allow the input textbox to be switched from single line to expandable). It's really interesting when the thing "speaks" .Net, because the power you expose is unreal. For instance, mine really talks to a finite set of components, but because it's .Net, it could probably talk Monad, too, and vice versa.
I really like some of the aspects of Monad, but not being a CLI person myself, I didn't "get" the format in terms of how you pass/pipe things...could be because watching Jeffrey type in commands, I couldn't really understand the format being parsed...too flexible I guess. Mine supports ">" and "<" bi-directional parsing (fully configurable, as the pipes are just "sentence" delimiters, so I guess I could add |), <verb> <noun> <params> formatting, script support, but I defined a very restricted sentence format with all the complexity in the piping order. Monad kinda blew my notion of a grammar out the window, so I'm still trying to wrap my head around it
--
wjs, mvp
I saw that too. Must have been cut out.
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Documentation is there
No cut, my battery died. Sorry about that.
I hope they make Cut/Copy/Paste better than the current CMD tool. (CTRL-C, CRTL-V etc)
This is really, really good. Can't wait to get my hands on it. Probably is no technical reason to delay its release until Windows 2005 Server. Hope against hope that the user doc is really good, too.
At this point, the only way I can demo the remoting stuff is with hand puppets.
It's going to be great but we just don't have the code to show it right now.
We'll be leveraging the WS-Management protocol to do remote management. What that means is that you'll be able to use the same protocol and cmdlets to manage the Pre-OS environment of your servers (once they have a WS-Management compliant MB-Controller [which the HW guys are developing]) and your OS-Present environment.
jps
Tab completion nonwithstanding, I'm finding msh to be easier than cmd for everything, including simple string parsing: No need for findstr/cut/etc.
Please keep these coming!
They've clearly borrowed a lot from the Unix 'every thing is a file' Model. I like the way the Registry etc. are all mapped to drives under the monad root directory.
But how far do they go with this? Unix has something called the /proc filesystem. Under the /proc directory you'll find sub directories for each currently running process. Under each process directory there are further directories which list open file handles for that process and cpu usage, memory usage etc. This would be welcome in Monad as well as their get-process command.
The SQL-like querying of the output is definitely something new, with no real equivalent in Unix. This is something that would be very hard with Cygwin or bash. I wonder how all of this will tie in with WinFS? A lot of potential synergies there.
But the biggest innovation could also be a drawback. Everything seems to be an object in the Monad world. The input and the output of all these Cmdlets are objects, which is what allows us to run fancy queries on the output of the Cmdlets.
However this turns Monad into a closed system. Plain Unix is entirely text based, read text from STDIN write text to STDOUT or STDERR. This means that any commandline application could be used in a shell script. So I wonder how flexible Monad will really be?
For example, could I stick an existing network packet sniffing program into an MSH script and do all this funky querying of its output to debug network problems? Or do I have to write a C# Cmdlet wrapper around the exisiting tool before I can run it from my script?
Or could I run sql scripts against my database, and depending on the text output, send an email to the administrator saying the job had failed. Or do I need yet more C# Cmdlets?
The pure simplicity of the text in, text out Unix model made scripting easy, extensible and flexible. For Monad to succeed it will need to be all of those things
Please post links to a .chm or otherwise for the magic verbs and noun -? -? -PLEASE!!
Unix Admins. Be prepared to be -grep'ed yourselves.
Channel 9 Guy, DataMining, SQLServer labs + Monad ?? I'm blown away.... now I gotta get a foosball table
PS Jeff, Besides a much needed raise is that a doll in your office???
Loved to learn about Monad from this video but I really want to
convince you of providing higher quality vids even if they are way
a larger download. Watched one video of Vista and it's impressive. Keep in my we niners want to read the text on the screens so it's way hard if the quality of the video is bad.
Roger Armas
My 2 cents.
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