Mark Boulter - talking about Smart Clients and Windows Forms, Part II
- Posted: Mar 03, 2005 at 6:57 PM
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Mark Boulter continues his conversation about Smart Clients and Windows Forms today. If you're interested in .NET client development, you'll find this conversation with Charles Torre, of Channel 9, interesting.
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Charles
Sometimes you edit: battery is empty. Wait a second i have to change it..... So, we are back.
I agree about how nicer it is to use a good forms app over an html app. MS Money is a good example. Looks like they worked really hard to work up a hybred UI in a browser. However, it seems really busy to me and at the end of the day, looks like a web page. SBA, on the other hand, has that great office smart client look and feel. Cheers.
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William
Outlook 2003 is one of the best examples of a smart client I've seen. The way it swiches seamless from online to offline and back is what makes it smart compared to a classic client/server where when the network connection to the server dies the app packs up and shuts down.
Stephen.
Talking about getting the framework deployed and it's size, it would be interesting if you could get a stub version of the installer that installed all the core things such as the GAC and the loader, but only installed stubs for the assemblies, and when the loader tries to load an assembly but only finds the stub it nips off to the MS download site and pulls down just the needed parts.
Don't know if it would make much difference overall, but might make initial barrier to downloading a .Net app a bit lower.
Stephen.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/smartclient/understanding/definition/
You are spot on. Outlook is THE prototypical example of a Smart Client. Keep in mind that Outlook is not a managed application. It's written entirely in unmanaged C++. So, is there really a connection between managed code and "Smart" client?
Oh, and after 4 major versions it still can't reformat text intelligently when quoting text in replies with line-lengths set. Even the nastiest unix mail clients have been able to do this for years. I thought about writing an outlook add-in to do it properly but don't send enough email to be *that* bothered. btw. Is it true that everyone who writes a decent Outlook add-in gets hired by Microsoft?
But in the 'easy as clicking a link in a web page' catagory, ClickOnce has an advantage over Java and Flash and that is managed directX 9 support right now..it does require the highest level of code access permission to run, however.
Quick and dirty example:
Dynamic Direct3D surface rendering using GDI+ generated bitmaps.
Calculates RenderTime, FPS.
Tests presence of .Net 2, DirectX 9, Full Trust.
Link: www.okaq.com
I totally agree on the Itunes thing. I've used MusicMatch for awhile and then they became a big memory hog (and too web-like with the radio) without a good reason. Now, I use Itunes a lot more and I don't even own an iPod. The library features and intuitive nature are amazing, frankly. However, I'd say Outlook 2k3 is a close second.
Because Microsoft has Imagine Cup (www.imaginecup.com) focus on creation of smart clients, I've had a bit of discussion on that. A smart client needs to have a smart element which has learning or hides unimportant data from the user or does something useful like that. It can really be done in any language (unmanaged or managed), and it ultimately has to be useful.
Yes, yes it is...
Agreed. We will do a better job of editing where appropriate. In general, too much editing decreases the raw and honest realness that is becoming our trademark style. In other words, we want you to feel like the interview is happening while you watch it; live, but not live. Just real.
Yes, I for one think that if an application has no facility for understanding my typical behaviors (associated with the specific application's functionality and my needs) and no capability for behavioral prediction of user actions, then the application is not very smart. Asynchronously detecting network connection state, checking remote data stores/email servers, synchronizing offline data caches, etc are not particularly smart actions, but they are certainly very useful. MSR is working on some very interesting applications that implement machine learning and AI, which in my assessment can legitimately be coined "Smart".
Regarding the "smart" client stuff, I'd say MSR has some hot stuff. Just don't wait for Google to come up with the traffic app before you put out the one you already have!
Let's have some more transparency with Microsoft Office product add-ons, ok? The add-in to Outlook that would automatically "learn" your email habits and put rankings on the tons of email we get every day...I really, really wish it were made available. I don't care if it's beta...I'd be happy to beta test the product. Eric Horvitz (MSR), you know what I'm talking about.
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