Comment Feed for Channel 9 - Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

ZippyV — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 11:50:41 GMT

Refactoring sounds really cool!
A long video so I got a couple of questions:

Why can the Intellisence thingy only work with xsd files and not DTD's ?
Is XHTML Strict also available?

posted by ZippyV

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

scottgu — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:50:44 GMT

We support intellisense on XML files that have either an XSD or DTD schema. So for pure XML intellisense we work with either.

For HTML intellisense we have a standard schema that people can use to implement the intellisense rules. I think it is XSD based (although need to double-check) to make it extensible and allow you to add your own new html formats to the list.

We do provide built-in validation/intellisense support for XHTML strict as well as for transitional.

Hope this helps,

Scott

posted by scottgu

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

urbandude — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:56:56 GMT

I think I'm in love... This is the first video I've seen here that really got me excited about Microsoft tools. If I made a list of things I wanted to see in a web development tool + platform, this video is it.

I played around with Web Developer Beta 1 and had to stop using it because I felt like I was teasing myself. I'm really looking forward to Beta 2. Any news on when it'll get pushed out?

posted by urbandude

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

irascian — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:20:30 GMT

On the subject of Accessibility it was noticeable on the free training for C# ASP.NET 2.0 CD that Ken Getz and his company put out that server side controls were generating deprecated 'b' tags instead of the semantic 'strong' tag encouraged for use in screen readers.

Is this fixed in beta 2?

If not, will it be fixed in the release?

We took a lot of pain with accessibility on datagrid. Even the ASP.NET 1.1 Rollout fix that claimed compliance with accessibility legislation only fixed the problem with header tags being generated as tds and added a caption property - the required table 'summary' property was not included and trying to get label for working with radio buttons in a data grid - well let's not go there. Is this sort of issue going to be fixed in Whidby?

posted by irascian

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

urbandude — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:36:34 GMT

Another question: any chance of datagrid tables outputing a proper table using thead > tfoot > tbody using th and td?

posted by urbandude

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

mVPstar — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:15:38 GMT

I'm surprised W3bbo isn't up and posting in this topic yet.

Hmm, is he sick?

mVPstar

posted by mVPstar

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

dmarsh — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 01:17:17 GMT

Was I the only one that kept thinking Scott was going to bump his cup of soda(?) over every time he turned back around to his laptop?

Heheh, great video though. My team's really dying to move to VS2005 almost solely for the HTML editor enhancements.

posted by dmarsh

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

vbNullString — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 06:29:50 GMT

Great demo as always. VS 2005 really excites me almost as much as the first version of VS .NET. This is a huge release in my opinion. It will change the way we develop applications to a great degree. Can't wait for the MSDN event where they will distribute the DVD for VS 2005 Beta 2!

posted by vbNullString

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

rasx — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 06:54:19 GMT

So I'm at 24:16 in the 50:32 video and am wondering about new features around saving all of these custom settings and easily exporting them from machine to machine.

I am extremely impressed with the new level of respectful intimacy and thoughtfulness in this release. The Express editions will blow Macromedia tools out of the water. My brand new copy of Dreamweaver MX 2004 can't even keep tab windows open without flickering them from time to time.

posted by rasx

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

Koen — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:03:02 GMT

Due date seems to be April 25th.
http://www.microsoft.com/emea/msdn/betaexperience/

grtz

koen

posted by Koen

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

Keith J. Farmer — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:30:44 GMT

Note: that was for Europe, etc... A lot of non-English SKUs.

posted by Keith J. Farmer

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

dotnetjunkie — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 23:51:20 GMT

Talking about the development server, Scott's last words of this sentence weren't very well pronounced, but I guess this was what he really wanted to say to Robert: "You don't have to worry about Charles connecting to your development box and turning your code into spaghetti."

Oh, I love these videos about VS.NET 2005, please make more of them, because 50 mins is way too short to explain all the exciting new stuff!!! You should do a Whidbey video every week, each time discussing only one or a few new features, but really going deep into them!

posted by dotnetjunkie

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

dotnetjunkie — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 00:31:23 GMT

Hm, I noticed something that bothered me in Beta1 already: if you add a new file to your project, it opens in source mode by default (so it's showing the html for an aspx page for example instead of the designer like it used to be). I think most of the time you start working in design mode (dragging controls to your page etc.) so that should really be the default display mode. Why was this changed?

posted by dotnetjunkie

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

scobleizer — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 00:47:05 GMT

More Whidbey videos ahead!

Maybe not every week, but you'll see more.

posted by scobleizer

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

scottgu — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 05:58:13 GMT

Hi DotNetjunkie,

We changed the default from loading the page in the designer to the source editor because we've seen a number of developers say that prefer source mode over a design surface.

The good news is that you can configure the behavior anyway you want -- just go to the preferences dialog box if you prefer design-mode when opening files. We'll then honor it anytime you open one.

Hope this helps,

Scott

posted by scottgu

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

scottgu — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 06:01:45 GMT

Hi Rasx,

You can actually export and import all settings within VS 2005 to XML files. This makes it easy to copy them from machine to machine, as well as use them in group developer scenarios.

Just go to the Tools->Import and Export Settings menu item and a wizard will walk you through it.

Hope this helps,

Scott

posted by scottgu

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

MGrassman — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 19:54:06 GMT

I have alot of application in classic asp right now and using any of the 2003 VS IDEs I can't seem to get Classic ASP Intellisence to work. Is there an option for this in 2005 or is this not going to be supported.

Keep up the good work.

posted by MGrassman

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

scottgu — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 20:57:36 GMT

Hi MGrassman,

We don't officially support classic ASP with VS 2005, although I was just playing around with it and you'll probably find that you get an ok experience.

Specifically, because there is no longer a project file for web-projects, you don't have to worry about adding it to "a project" in order for the files to show up. Instead just copy a .asp file into you site directory and you are good to go.

There is still some intellisense support for classic ASP in the text editor. I noticed that objects like request, response, etc do have code statement completion. You also get full support for HTML statement completion, xhtml validation, tag navigator, etc support for classic ASP contnet.

Hope this helps. I'd recommend downloading the Visual Web Developer express edition when the beta comes out and giving it a try to see if this meets your classic asp needs.

Thanks,

Scott

posted by scottgu

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

scottgu — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 22:52:05 GMT

Hi Irascian,

The WCAG and 508 guidelines don't say much about using 'strong' in place of 'b'. We are looking into it more, though, to see if there is a formal recommendation. I believe JAWS (the most popular screen reader out there) fully supports both.

The "summary" attribute for a table is actually a pri3 WCAG requirement. You can add it with both ASP.NET 1.1 and ASP.NET 2.0 by setting a "summary" attribute on the 'asp: datagrid' or 'asp: gridview' controls. This will then be passed through to the output as an expando property.

Radiobuttons and checkboxes inside a datagrid now output a 'for' attribute which associates them with the corresponding label element -- so this should no longer be a problem with ASP.NET V2.0. I have a code workaround that I can send you for ASP.NET V1.1 that shows how to-do that today (unfortunately this doesn't work built-in).

Hope this helps,

Scott

posted by scottgu

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

irascian — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 23:10:35 GMT

Thanks Scott. I'm excited again now

I've been reading that b and i are deprecataed and should be avoided for some time now and certainly worked in several shops where it's been explained to me that b and i are semantically meaningless where strong and em aren't and are better supported by JAWS (I haven't got JAWS installed so have no idea of the truth of this) - hence my assumption they should not be used.

I've actually got radio buttons working inside grid controls although the code is pretty hacky involving the usual inheritance and some rather shady work with client-side ids.

As a final note I guess my big request here is I hope the documentation for the controls and/or the intellisense documents these new features. Ideally we need a one-to-one mapping between server control attributes and the HTML they generate, which has always been seriously lacking up to now. When trying to make the datagrid more DDA-compliant I found four pages of advice on google groups (yeah, yeah I know!) telling me that the datagrid didn't support th generation from header elements with reply after reply saying "use the repeater instead - it's the only way" before I hit the ASP.NET 1.1 rollout fix solution on page 5 of the results list, with its mention of the new attribute (I don't have the fix details to hand but I think it was "UseAccessibility=true"). The hotfix note claiming this made the datagrid compliant mentioned nothing about "summary" (only "caption") so I ended up with my own control inheriting from datagrid that overwrites the "render" method, and traps write element and write attribute events so that when a table element is being output it sets a flag and then that flag causes the attribute render event to do an AddAttribute for the missing "summary" tag. I guess I'll be reworking that hack on Monday

We've used a similar technique to remove invalid attributes (that appear to not even be used anyway) on the validation summary control so if there's any attributes there that might help remove those hacks we'd be interested to hear of them, or where the best place for finding out where some of this stuff is documented.

Anyway, thanks again. The answers given here and in the other thread have helped resolve issues that have been troubling developes at several shops I've worked at for some time. I'm looking forward to getting the beta 2 to do some hand on myself later this month.

posted by irascian

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

MGrassman — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:31:15 GMT

Thanks for the info.

I'll check it out.

posted by MGrassman

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

rhm — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:17:15 GMT

File download seems broken for this post (proceeds very slowly and eventually breaks). Other videos download fine.

posted by rhm

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

davesea — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 03:21:17 GMT

Channel 9 Guys - This was great! Let me echo some of the other posters and say keep the videos on VS 2005 coming.

To Scott Guthrie and your team -

The features you guys have implemented in this release absolutely rocks. I'm a relatively new ASP.NET developer and I was trying to use VS 2003 for my development. But, creating so many new files automatically (as VS 2003 does) is more than a little disconcerting for a new developer.

I found myself hand-coding all my ASP.NET stuff in Homesite+ just for the simplicity and the fact that it allows me to focus on the code rather than wonder what the heck VS is doing to my files. After the great experience of designing/testing Windows forms apps in VS 2003, trying to build ASP.NET apps was a pain by comparison. I think it's a case where more (as in more automation) was not better - it was just more.

Nevertheless, I really like the approach you guys seem to be taking with VS 2005. Personally, I also like the default setting of opening in source view rather than design view.

Anyway, great work, guys! Keep it up!

DaveSea (Dave in Seattle)

posted by davesea

Re: Scott Guthrie - Demo of next version of ASP.NET (Happy Birthday Video #1)

chrisward — Sat, 30 Apr 2005 15:03:16 GMT

I almost wept when I found out that visual studio leaves my html code alone between view modes

I loved the way