Comment Feed for Channel 9 - Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

orcmid — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 00:54:03 GMT

Orbit, my understanding is that the Microsoft Office 12 native format will use XPS packages to hold the XML parts and other elements (images, etc.). I suppose you could have the word document and an XPS (Reach) Document side-by-side in the same package if that was useful for shipping around.

The greater value may be that this is also how PowerPoint and Excel will do it, and there is room for many custom document-oriented and maybe developer-oriented uses. (I would love to see it as a carrier for the components of a build/project, for example.)

I think the use of "Paper" is too narrow, but it seems that a lot of the wood behind this particular arrow is oriented to production printing models, although it could be nifty in the multi-function space too. It'll be interesting to see the next cut of the specification.

posted by orcmid

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

LarryOsterman — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 00:54:37 GMT

Btw, Jerry's been at MS for about 2 years longer than I have

posted by LarryOsterman

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

Manip — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 01:36:38 GMT

LarryOsterman wrote:

Btw, Jerry's been at MS for about 2 years longer than I have

I thought you helped build the first Microsoft building? Guess he helped tip the cement into the foundation then

posted by Manip

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

Minh — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 02:13:18 GMT

When you had the Word & XPS docs side-by-side, you comment that the XPS version looks better. This is due to the new hinting system in Vista right? So that particular font is optimized for the screen. When this same font is used to render the doc onto the printer, would the screen-optimized font somehow adversely affect the printer output?

Edit: Nevermind, I realized that's more of the font design & XAML rendering function than XPS.

posted by Minh

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

LarryOsterman — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 02:54:25 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:

Larry drove the cement truck over there! lol

Can you say "Jimmy Hoffa"?

I thought you could

posted by LarryOsterman

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

LarryOsterman — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 02:55:01 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:

do you have any products that are still in shrink wrap larry?

Of course.

I have my copy of OS/2 1.0 sitting on my shelf (that's the first product I worked on that RTM'ed, the others were OEM-only).

posted by LarryOsterman

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

matt0210 — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 07:28:52 GMT

Could it be, that the MS Download servers act with a slight bias. I'm downloading the video on my Mac using Safari. I'm getting 3kB. So I soptted the DL. When I fire up the good ol Connectix VirutalPC running W2k I get an astonishing 230kB. Stopping it and going back to Safari gets me the old 3kB. What's the deal here? I noticed that on the last 2 videos I DL'ed as well. (The Ken Levy foxPro and on route to steves office)

posted by matt0210

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

Minh — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 09:35:29 GMT

Were you downloading vs. watching? They could come from 2 different servers.

posted by Minh

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

ZippyV — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 11:53:40 GMT

Is Metro going to be an open standard?

posted by ZippyV

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

nsingh — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 15:22:28 GMT

I noticed on the side-by-side comparison between Word and Metro, they were slightly different. Why is there a box around the text under the title in the Word version and no box in Metro?

posted by nsingh

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

Minh — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 17:16:21 GMT

nsingh wrote:

I noticed on the side-by-side comparison between Word and Metro, they were slightly different. Why is there a box around the text under the title in the Word version and no box in Metro?

Probably a table cell. Those can have printable borders or not, and I guess since XPS is printer-oriented, it didn't show the border.

posted by Minh

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

orcmid — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 17:24:31 GMT

Matt0210: I had the same experience downloading (I never got much over 2.5kB/s on a 1.5mbps DSL line) and I was using Internet Explorer 6.0. This morning I finally killed it after only getting 130MB of the thing downloaded overnight. So I don't have a local copy for careful review and I haven't managed to watch it either. Bummer. It looks like downloading is throttled and streaming isn't (makes sense), but it could just be congestion.

I gave up because I was avoiding doing my real work out of concern for losing the connection. So I tossed the connection and I'll try again another time.

Knowing the file size in advance would have helped me deal with this. I sent a note to Robert Scoble requesting that for Channel 9 videos.

posted by orcmid

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

scobleizer — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 18:37:31 GMT

The two files come from different servers and different networks. The download servers are probably getting wacked by Windows Vista beta downloads and other things. WE aren't throttling them as far as I know. We're working on getting file sizes on the videos. I'll try to do that manually in the meantime.

posted by scobleizer

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

Charles — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 18:46:00 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:

whats with the humming?

There was construction happening on the floor above us. Strange sound, no? Wonder what they were working on...

C

posted by Charles

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

erik_ — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:03:45 GMT

Charles wrote:

Orbit86 wrote: whats with the humming?

There was construction happening on the floor above us. Strange sound, no? Wonder what they were working on...

C

Lol, viewing the wmv at the moment and I was wondered what the harddrive on the background was doing and how large that pc was which made the noise. But it's construction.

posted by erik_

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

ringi — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:50:07 GMT

For me to use this format there will need to be.

A free (fast) viewer for the max
A free (fast) viewer for latex
A free (fast) viewer for firefox
A free (fast) viewer for old version of Windows (95, 98, NT 4 etc)
A viewer that will run on most versions of unix, may be java as I don’t care if it is slow.

A free web-page service to convert XML-Paper documents into PDF documents.

Otherwise I would not know that the person I was sending a document to would be able to read it.

posted by ringi

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

DCMonkey — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 23:25:59 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:

I still don't know why you would need XPS when you have Word and PDF..

but yet again this is Microsoft's way of not letting you choose other people's software

I don't see anything here prohibiting you from using Word and PDF now or in the future.

Now MS pretending PDF doesn't exist I can see (it was kind of funny to listen to this video describing Metro as if nothing like this has ever been done before, right down to the amazing printer driver that creates a document!).

Then again, I couldn't see MS integrating PDF creation like Apple and the Linux desktops do without being slapped with a long and hard lawsuit from Adobe for unfairly crushing their Acrobat Elements OEM business.

posted by DCMonkey

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

Minh — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:11:53 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:

I still don't know why you would need XPS when you have Word and PDF..

Word cost $$$ and XPS viewers will be free on Windows platform 'cuz they should be easy to implement. XPS should be better than PDF in preserving the printout 'cuz it's more intimate with GDI. Plus, I don't know if the PDF specs are opened or not.

posted by Minh

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

DCMonkey — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:35:04 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:

you have a Word Viewer on Microsoft.com

you need Windows ($$) to use XPS, will it be cross platform or just Windows?

It should be cross-platform, but I doubt MS will write viewers for other platforms (except maybe Mac OS X). 3rd parties can do that if they want.

Metro Spec

PDF Spec

posted by DCMonkey

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

LarryOsterman — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 03:35:31 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:

Larry, how different is OS\2 to NT.. how it works..not the GUI.. I did a wikipedia search for Dave Cutler and found these quotes.. can you say these are legit?
the 4th one is hilarious,

btw Larry, during college what was your favorite class and which one do you regret not taking?

The quotes could be - they're Dave's style. There is no comparison between OS/2 and NT (except for the command interpreter). There is essentially nothing in common between the two.

In college, my favorite class was the software performance class, the one I most regret not taking was the operating systems class (although I could probably teach it by now).

posted by LarryOsterman

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

DCMonkey — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 07:00:30 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:

btw thanks..

is that a Mac Mini for your avator?

Yep.

And no the Intel mods are not permanent. I'm not that heartless.

posted by DCMonkey

Re: Jerry Dunietz - XML Paper Specification

DCMonkey — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:06:02 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:

do you use the mac mini?

Sometimes. I used it for web surfing and RSS reading as much as I could when I first got it (the wonderful sleep implementation made that quite easy when my main machine was off), but eventually gravitated back to my primary XP machine.

I've wanted to run Mac OS X on something since it first went public, but didn't want another monitor on my desk. When the mini was announced it was the perfect solution and I snapped one up (the low end model but with 512MB RAM) the day it went on sale before the RDF wore off.

I'll still fire it up on occasion, especially if I want to check how they did something in the UI. It's running Tiger now too so there's that to play with. But it is vying with my Vista test box for the secondary inputs on my monitor so the laziness factor has impacted my Mac usage somewhat.

If it weren't for .Net programming, Rhapsody music service, and World of Warcraft (it runs on Macs but my PC is so much better a gaming machine), I could see using it full time.

posted by DCMonkey