Entries:
Comments:
Posts:

Loading User Information from Channel 9

Something went wrong getting user information from Channel 9

Latest Achievement:

Loading User Information from MSDN

Something went wrong getting user information from MSDN

Visual Studio Achievements

Latest Achievement:

Loading Visual Studio Achievements

Something went wrong getting the Visual Studio Achievements

Kam Vedbrat - Looking at Windows Vista's user interface (AERO)

Download

Right click “Save as…”

Kam Vedbrat is a lead program manager on the AERO team which redesigned the User Interface of Windows Vista (the next version of Windows). We spend half an hour looking at the user interface.

Tags:

Follow the Discussion

  • tomwarrencreamhacker​ed Beta Addict
    Great video Kam, keep up the great stuff in the UX team Smiley
  • Excellent video.
  • You know, when watching videos and you scroll the page, the video tears and it is like all over the webpage. And switching videos on the main page, sometimes the old video leaves a few bits behind...that needs to be fixed like now. Nice video btw though!

    Also when you switch videos while another is playing, that old one keeps playing....

  • LarsenalLarsenal ready to give an answer
    The average windows user has 4 windows open at the same time... that's funny.  I honestly thought it would be more than that.
  • Yeah, makes you wonder how geeky we must be!!!

    I have around 30 windows open on average...

    //edit: I should probably add to this that I just tend to keep all the apps open that I use more or less regularly.  I never reboot my system, it is on 24/7, really the only time I reboot is when a critical patch requires it. 

    It happens many times that instead of bookmarking an interesting webpage, I just keep the Internet Explorer window open for several weeks or even longer! (yeah, I'm not exaggerating, even now there are 2 IE windows sitting minimized on my taskbar that I opened nearly 2 months ago).

    Also right now, there are 5 instances of Visual Studio .NET open, 3x VS2003 and 2x VS2005.

    Outlook is another app that's always open for weeks on end without ever closing.

    About the only time that I close a few windows (IE or shell windows) is when I once again get the message that windows is out or memory (or actually: most of the time you don't get that message but see funny things like menu bars or other window parts not showing)
    => is this something that will be impoved in Vista?
    Because I'm sure that it's not due to the amount of RAM.

    Come to talk about it, this is one of few things (or maybe even the ONLY important thing) that bothers me in Windows.
    However, I must say that Windows 2003 never crashes, even all those times that memory is exhausted, it just DOESN'T CRASH! Smiley  You only see the missing window parts or new windows refusing to open, but you close a few windows and everything is fine again.

    It must be my choice of hardware components for sure, because I have seen other Windows XP or 2003 systems crash, but never my own system.  I have still to witness the first fatal exception from my Windows 2003 systems in all these years, and yet I push my PC to the limit constantly!

  • William Staceystaceyw Before C# there was darkness...

    Thanks Robert.  Couldn't you just create a script or something to put up the download videos automatically?  Does not bother me at all, but you should be able to automate it to save you some steps.

    --wjs

  • moofishmoofish Living in Scotland, UK
    I love icons (xicons.com Big Smile), I would like to know is how vista will represent icons, at the moment they come in fixed sizes e.g. 32x32, 48x48, 96x96 but all this analogue/dynamic resizing leads me to believe that Vista will use actual vectors.

    So what icon format will vista use and Is it finalised?

    SO is this the new customisation standpoint for Vista. Back when it was known as Longhorn I read that everything was going to be customizable, not so. Hmm well I would like to warn that although MS think their default skin for XP is great I have to use TGT's StyleXP/Toothpaste Theme to make XP look good, and have to use Cursor XP/3D cursor to make the cursor look good and then Microangelo’s ‘On Display’ to make the icons on the desktop behave like .ANI files (i.e. animate)

    Can Vista do all of that, because if not its a step back for me.

    P.S. I have more than 4 windows open right now
  • pusher robotpusher robot We are here to protect you
    One thing I'm really curious about - since all the windows are textures, that means that the main "finder" should also be a texture, which means that the desktop should itself be a textured quad, right?  Will there be any developer API for drawing on or overriding the desktop/wallpaper surface directly?  For example, to create XAML-based animated wallpapers?
  • I believe that the average Windows user has 4 windows open.  In fact, I would be willing to bet that most Windows users open their primary window maximized or full screen.

    I joke that Microsoft should have named the product "Window" for that reason.

    I have only two windows open:  this one and the video.
  • shame about the download size 450+ mg??????
  • Wow.. This is totally amazing. :O:P[H]
  • is it me or I don't particularly find the aero UI all that interesting...

    I think it should provide more continuous flow of interaction...

    let me elaborate on this:

    Open the explorer window, you can click on the header of a particular column to filter data by some field, or to group by that field... and that's awesome! But why can't you make the documents that are going to "disappear", literally "appear to dissapear"... sorta like fade out to white in the screen... let the other documents re-arrange themselves to fit the maximum size of the window so that I can take a better look at the data. Hey! Make that documents actually "move" around the screen so when I'm looking at the one I care about, I don't lose it when I filter the results even further.

    The best example of this... the research product that channel9 showed a couple months back... they organized pictures like this... DO IT IN THE WHOLE explorer.

    I gotta say I am urging for some eye candy... aero is great, but it still feels like things aren't smoothly popping out in my screen...

    What do you think of this ? Is this the final UI ?
  • MasterPieMasterPi taddah!
    Nice video!

    Though, I will ask this question, is this overall look of vista (the title bars, taskbars, etc) very close to the final image?  There seems to be a lot of room for improvement, especially the title bars of the windows (those have an odd contrast with the left and right nav buttons).


    mVPstar
  • onon
    I really respect Kam VedBrat but i was disappointed when i saw him in the video @ 27:06 when Robert asks "Is this skinnable?" And Kam grins sardonically in front of the monitor. He is a very nice guy but i wonder if he despises the customization scene.
    A few months ago Kam replied my e-mail and he described that customization is against branding. It's okay. I'm not really a skin-guy. I don't use skins - i use the classic look in XP but i have an exact customization philosophy. I think not every default UI settings are suitable for both novice and advanced users. For instance the keyboard shortcuts: Kam wrote keyboard shortcuts are hard to learn - but i ask: for whom? I use a hotkey manager and i can control everything via hotkeys in my system - it's really faster than with the mouse.

    But i'm really happy that some of my wishes comes true (like the search box on Open/Save dialogs, etc). Maybe they implemented it because of me? lol (it's only a joke)

    By the way does anybody know about the Aero blog?
    It was mentioned in the Preliminary Vista UI Guidelines:
    http://blogs.msdn.com/aero/ - It's empty.
    Kam's blog is a little bit different - personal one and rarely updated so i'm really curious about the new blog.
  • What I want to know is what happened to the cool animation efects that were demoed on WinHEC 2003 (if I remember correctly), with windows waving (like a flag in wind) when moved, and an app (calculator on demo) being resized (with everything resizing smoothly)...??

    I'm afraid that will be (once again) a case where MS demos some cool (already working) feature, and then drops it from the final product.

    Yes, I know it would be only eye candy, but then again, so is all the trasparency and shadows anyway!!!!

    Some MS folks are saying that your gfx card should have 512MB of mem...I want to know why? None of the videos I've seen so far of Aero don't seem to need it or use the power of gpu to the fullest.
  • onon
    Mike Steel wrote:
    What I want to know is what happened to the cool animation efects that were demoed on WinHEC 2003 (if I remember correctly), with windows waving (like a flag in wind) when moved, and an app (calculator on demo) being resized (with everything resizing smoothly)...??

    I'm afraid that will be (once again) a case where MS demos some cool (already working) feature, and then drops it from the final product.


    As Kam said "we have the platform, we have the technology - so we can do anything, only sky is the limit" or something like this.

    It means (for me) even if they drop these kind of features developers will be able to use the platform and build amazing software - maybe better than the one we've seen at WinHEC 03.

    Some MS folks are saying that your gfx card should have 512MB of mem...I want to know why? None of the videos I've seen so far of Aero don't seem to need it or use the power of gpu to the fullest.


    I think 512MB is only a recommended value. AFAIK Aero will start on any dx9 capable vga with at least 64 or 128 MB.
    And i think it highly depends on your screen resolution too.
  • Yes, the foundation is there, and that's great for upcoming apps.

    Now, for my rant.  J  Note that I really hope this is chicken-little stuff and beta2 will really start to put the spit and shine on the GUI, but this video doesn’t really get my hopes up considering that they seem to have the final design relatively close to completion.  Frankly I would never have written this without viewing this video, as everything I’ve heard is "Wait until Beta 2!  Wait until Beta2!  This GUI is just a placeholder!" – perhaps not.  This is disconcerting – and like some other posters, the ambivalence towards skinning compounds the problem.  I was hoping MS wouldn’t repeat the same mistake they made with XP’s themes by required you to hack the system to install some that don’t look like they were intended for a preschool audience, but perhaps not.  More clarification on this would be nice.

    I've heard numerous times in the past from MS reps that they want Aero to have a "movie-like" experience for the end user, in that the GUI will in part resemble those over-the-top computer interfaces you often see depicted in films where everything smoothly pops in/out and is perfectly anti-aliased, etc.  Bear in mind while I'm not insinuating that most of us want an obnoxious GUI where everything is zooming/spinning in our faces when we’re trying to compose a document, I do think what's shown so far in terms of effects (but more importantly, polish) is incredibly tame, especially considering how long the competition has been out with their 3D accelerated display.  Yes, it’s not the same depth as Avalon/Aero (it will be if Apple ever enables Quartz 2D Extreme and goes truly resolution independent), but that’s even more disappointing when the original OSX had better effects running almost entirely on the CPU.   Sorry, but I’m not going to be amazed by windows not tearing, animated video thumbnails and apps that fade in/out – that’s all extremely basic stuff guys that’s been done before for years now with a composition engine that is not as advanced as WPF, and is the least anyone would expect from a GUI that makes heavy use of the GPU.

    My main aesthetic gripes so far from the PDC build regarding Aero:

    1)     Font Rendering.  Some of the concept screen shots of Aero "back in the day" had fantastic fonts, and before I knew they were concepts I had hoped MS had significantly re-tooled its font rendering engine. Cleartype helps to improve clarity on LCD’s and MS deserves credit to be the first to market with this technology in a major OS, but often the fonts still look "computerized" even with enabled, and frankly they stand out like a sore thumb in the current Aero screenshots.  This is a large reason why Aero at this point looks like a half-baked Windowblinds skin.

    OSX really demonstrates Apple's attention in this area, and it's not difficult to illustrate.  Even with very small fonts, OSX's rendering makes the appearance of pages as close to WYSIWG as possible as compared to printer output - Cleartype doesn't.  Apple is doing some extra aliasing which bother some people on low DPI displays, but it will only look better and better as we move into high DPI.  \

     

    2)     Icons.  They're incredibly plain, while I'm sure they scale smoothly they don't look anything beyond what XP can do now (albeit the game icons look very nice).  A little more detail is needed here.  Some are particularly awful, such as the back-forward arrows that are ever-present in the new explorer; you’ve got a very shiny blue orb with a flat 2d white arrow overlaid.  It looks like two disparate elements mashed together, in short it just looks cheap. The folder icons as well are particularly dull, it’s as if the majority of the icons so far are restricted to a 16 colour palette. Depth & detail folks!

     

    3)     Colours.  I’ve seen some shots of Vista explorer with an orange gradient, bright green progress bars, glossly blue buttons, transparent titlebars with black/grayish borders.  W…T…H…?  I try to tell myself that this is all placeholder stuff and the final GUI will no doubt look far more cohesive, but then again I said that when I saw the first shots of Luna as well.

     

     

    You want to know of an example that I hoped Longhorn would come close to?  Something like this: http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/lh-winhec-03.png

    Of course, that’s a concept shot and lacking many interface elements, but as mentioned I’m focusing on the aesthetics here and not the actual operation of the GUI (which so far I generally like actually, the move away from using pull-down menus to access most commands is quite a bold change IMO).  Why isn’t this possible with Aero?  I’m talking about smooth anti-aliased rounded corners (I heard from one Mac user that Windows always looked like it was "Designed with a T-Square", and I have to agree), a far more cohesive colour scheme, gorgeous icons with their own reflections/shadows, fonts that actually look like they will when printed, etc – this frankly is what I expected considering all the hype and time, and that was years ago.

    With Office12, MS has demonstrated they’re not afraid of dragging their existing customer base through a significant GUI change, so why not try and make Aero look beyond what someone could do with a copy of Windowblinds in 10 minutes?

    Come on MS - show me that you actually "get it".  The little things count in the overall picture, and if MS truly wants to be thought of having any sort of style, it has to pay attention to them.

     

  • A couple questions--how does this affect screenshot-grabbing?  One thing I would really love to see, also, is the built-in ability to grab screenshots for entire windows (the entire contents when the window scrolls).  It seems like the way the interface is drawn that this would become easily possible.

    Overall... I guess I kept thinking that "we haven't seen the full-blown Aero Glass yet," but from this, it seems that we more or less have.  I can understand many reasons not to depart radically from the Windows UI... but I guess I was hoping for something more striking (but hopefully in a truly functional way!).  A couple thoughts on it:

    - Transparencies--neat looking, but I'm very concerned about the title bars being translucent.  When you layer several over the top of each other, it looks cluttered, not clear.  The title bar shows useful information, so for clarity, I would think this should be clear information.  Perhaps make the text non-translucent?

    - I echo "Nitz Walsh" above regarding font rendering.  Particularly in the zooming features I've seen so far, it seems like text doesn't necessarily scale smoothly--the character spacing isn't always consistent. 

    - Perhaps for more graphic appeal, consider the "Nitz Walsh" above regarding reflections and shadows.  There are tons of effects available via DirectX, not just transparency.  The Apple folks will be making fun of Aero as a warmed-over XP interface, not fire (not that the goal should be to please them... but it's not necessarily a bad goal, either!). 
  • bluvg wrote:


    - Transparencies--neat looking, but I'm very concerned about the title bars being translucent.  When you layer several over the top of each other, it looks cluttered, not clear.  The title bar shows useful information, so for clarity, I would think this should be clear information.  Perhaps make the text non-translucent?

    Forgot to mention this and I agree as well, when you get more than 2 overlaid it just looks like a smeared mess.  I assumed when this aspect of the GUI was first introduced it was meant to demonstrate the pixel shaders in effect, not to actually be used in the final.  The effect is nice, but it quickly goes overboard.

    Speaking of pixel shaders btw, that's another component of Aero that was hyped and seems to have gone missing - where are they being used?  From early on, we were told about the tiers of the GUI and how it would scale its effects from DX7 performing basic GPU composition of windows (basically what OSX does now) to DX9, which would be demanding but would make us wet ourselves with this "Hollywood interface" it would provide.  Ummm....?

    There's nothing I've seen so far which couldn't be done with DX7, save likely for the refraction effect of the glass which really isn't that appealing in its current incarnation.  Heck, Nvidia's XP drivers allow you to turn the windows and taskbar transparent, and in doing so enable double-buffering on all windows, eliminating the tearing (albiet at a speed hit when you have many windows overlaid).  Combine that with the Royale theme, and in many aspects I'd say XP could actually look better without third party add-ons.

    I guess we're asking - Where's the Beef?  At this point though, I'd settle for some tofu. Smiley
  • I was just thinking about what Nitz said about the Office 12 team throwing the old GUI into the wind, and although I think we're talking apples and oranges relative to Vista, I think that is a good point.  Though I'm concerned about how Office 12 is going to handle some customized toolbars where I work, I think the overall change will be worth it.  Clearly, as they described the evolution of the product, it was necessary for the UI model to change.

    Applying this to Vista, I'll just throw this out there as well.  I recognize the need for some semblance of familiarity for a variety of reasons--and I'm an IT admin, so things like consistency of Start Menu and Desktop shortcuts for scripting and whatnot make life easier... of course, we're already used to dealing with different file locations and UI metaphors in each Windows version, so why should this be any different?  But consider this--I get asked by our company's execs about things like OS X all the time.  These are pragmatic folks, so usually they aren't considering a switch at the office, but they DO consider it for home use (luckily it works well with our remote access solution!).  One of the biggest reasons is the interface--not only the surface appearance, but the consistency, the design aesthetics and metaphors, the font handling (though they may not realize exactly what it is), the simplicity, etc.  I'm not a big Mac fan personally, but there does seem to be quite a bit of consensus that the OS X GUI is superior (overall) to that of XP.  I guess I was really hoping for the surprise GUI introduction/innovation that would really challenge the notion that the Mac has a monopoly on great GUI design and aesthetics--and, judging by the people that sign the checks, they would be excited about this as well (they aren't as resistant to change as some might think... well, as long as it doesn't look like a circus!).  Personally, I think functionality-wise, the XP UI has the edge over the OS X UI, and with Vista, the framework is there for very powerful, very useful UI/UX innovations.  However, providing the framework alone is like preparing a huge buffet but not inviting yourself to eat, leaving the food untouched and sending guests pictures of what a great buffet could look like.  I think Microsoft has a huge opportunity here--perhaps even an obligation--to set the bar high from the outset, driving innovation in UI/UX, rather than simply housing the party and asking others to come in, dance, and make it a memorable event.

    I don't mean for this to become a "my OS can beat up your OS" debate, but that is inevitably going to happen after (and before and during) Vista's release.  For better or worse, the tech media will go on at length in comparing the two, and this coverage generates interest--usually at the expense of Windows--even amongst exec types.  What I'm trying to say is... the concern to look similar to old Windows versions is probably not as important as one might think.  If the people that sign the checks would consider switching primarily because of the interface, I think there is almost an expectation that Microsoft will come back at some point with both guns blazing, taking interface design to the next level.  And, for the companies that are very resistant to change (they probably won't be moving up to Vista anyhow... not until their storage room supply of dumb terminals runs out... Wink ), they can always put up a lower-tier experience (or perhaps there could be "Business" and "Consumer" themes?). 

    (This all said... I hope this doesn't come across as a rant against the Aero team, who have obviously put in a great deal of nice work (Yes, Flip3D looks very cool, and is truly useful!  Nice job!!).  I'm just hoping that they won't use that all of that awesome fire--the INFERNO, in fact--in Vista simply to warm themselves.... Smiley )

  • bluvg wrote:

     However, providing the framework alone is like preparing a huge buffet but not inviting yourself to eat, leaving the food untouched and sending guests pictures of what a great buffet could look like.  I think Microsoft has a huge opportunity here--perhaps even an obligation--to set the bar high from the outset, driving innovation in UI/UX, rather than simply housing the party and asking others to come in, dance, and make it a memorable event.


    Great analogy.

    You know how "eating your own dogfood" is the new buzzterm floating around these days?  Makese sense - who better to give you honest feedback about your beta product than the employees you're forcing to use it every day? Smiley

    While not completely applicable, I can see this philosophy being applied to design.  Do you want your developers to create gorgeous apps that immediately draw peoples attention?  Of course, hence the Avalon/WPF framework.  Well, why not be your own best example?  Create an OS that makes people stop and say..."Wow - what's that?" without waiting for a third party to develop an app which really shows of the abilities of the graphics subsytem.  Every single Vista user will have to interact with Explorer at some point, why not make it an eye-opening experience in itself?  Want to keep your branding?  They make an interface that's so attractive users won't want to skin it in the first place.

    Applications on OSX seem to generally have a higher degree of thought put into interface consistency and overall appearance, and there are a number of reasons for this (community of artists, Interface Builder, strict guidelines from Apple) - but I think one of the reasons is that developers have an easy target to hit - Apple themselves.  Apple doesn't generally cut corners with their interfaces (again, I'm focusing on aesthetics here), which encourages their developers to place the same amount of attention with theirs. 

    MS can create attractive GUI's when they really want to.  While there's criticism of WMP10's interface in terms of accessibility and functionality, most seem to agree that it at least looks good, with smooth lines, rounded corners and a nice depth to the main icons.  MSN explorer is attractive as well.  Basically, polish.  There's no reason not to apply that same attention to detail to the rest of the OS.

    Sites like this:

    http://www.microsoft.com/resources/design/mission.html

    Give me hope though that MS is at least really taking the style issue seriously.  Here's an idea: How about a contest to see who can design the most attractive Aero mock-ups?  Set the guidelines for what must be followed with regards to widget placement and overall functionality, but from there the sky's the limit.  Winner gets a cash prize and are credited with their submission when Vista ships.

    Just throwin' in out there.  Don't look at me though, I know what I like but that doesn't mean I can create it. Smiley

  • I thought it was a good video, I like most of the concepts he was displaying, right up until the end.  I think they have their priorities for  themes/skinning completely backwards.  Allowing developers to alter the look of standard controls to defy the standards set by the rest of the interface is a tremendous mistake.  "Triangular shaped buttons, star shaped buttons, 3D buttons..." That's NOT great!  The only thing that will do is confuse users, as consistency is thrown out the window with Microsoft's blessing and support.  One of the things I hate about XP is seeing applications sporting non-standard interfaces.  Yes, most of them are hideous, but even the attractive ones look bad because they don't fit in with the rest of the UI.

    I've seen plenty of Windows 2000 users at work that change system fonts and colors to suit their own preferences, and it sounds like Vista will be as limited as Windows XP in this regard.  Especially considering the vector based interface, Vista should have the most customizable UI of any Windows to date.  Please don't make the same mistake; allow us to force standard UI elements on custom designed applications!  Allow us to change colors, fonts, themes, whatever we want!  Branding be damned, we already know we're using Windows for Pete's sake!
  • Was I the only person disapointed with that video?

    I am really not that impressed with the current Vista UI in 5219 its ok but not amazing. I was really hopping for something more. This has nothing on MacOS X. I cant believe this is all they have, I agree that the foundations they have put in are amazing but to then not use the to best effect is just crazy.

    The taskbar is so dated. Surely they could of found a better was of updaing this. I requested that they should allow the moving of task bar tiles to re-arange them, but they said they would not implment this, why not? Such a simple feature.

    I think Microsoft need to hire some proper UI developers.
    The current UI is a complete mess, I also kept telling myself that they were holding the UI back and that the glass was just a prototype and that beta 2 would show the new full blow UI, but now it looks like what we have seen is what we're going to get.

    I really wish Microsoft would not show off amazing prototype UI mockups that look increadable and then not deliver. Some of the early teaser movies/shots at PDC 2003 showed the UI looking fantastic.

    Sad:(Sad

    Also to keep on moaning, that Alt-Tab feature (Flip) looks nice but is slower to use then the old Windows Alt-Tab.

    The Flip 3D feature looks crap, they are some visual glitches when using it. Also requires alot more clicks to select a window. How is this useful. Expose on Tiger is far better.

    What on earth has happened the start menu, its huge!
    It's got so many icons now, it crazy. Simple is better.

    One last thing, you should be able to manage windows by 3d, I want to be able to shift windows out of the way so that they scale to thumbnais size and maybe tilt like in Flip 3d, the kind of things that Project Looking Glass does.

    OK, thats all my complaints.
    I really have to appluad Microsoft they have done a great job on the Composition Engine and Avalon etc. but the shell does not impress me.

    I am praying that there is more to come.

  • camsoft wrote:

    Was I the only person disapointed with that video?

    Uh...have you read this thread? Smiley
    camsoft wrote:

    The Flip 3D feature looks crap, they are some visual glitches when using it. Also requires alot more clicks to select a window. How is this useful. Expose on Tiger is far better.

    I'm afraid I don't "get" flip either - it seems to be basically alt-tab, just "looks cool".  Expose has a purpose, that is to show you in one shot all your windows and just have you click on the one you want with a visual identification. 

    Yes, if you have 10 open Word documents using the same font visual ident sometimes isn't enough, but IME it's a rare scenario that I can't identify an app in Expose quickly.  Flip3D doesn't allow this, you'll spend time flipping through them to find the one you want instead of just pointing and clicking - really, what's the point?

    camsoft wrote:

    OK, thats all my complaints.
    I really have to appluad Microsoft they have done a great job on the Composition Engine and Avalon etc. but the shell does not impress me.

    I am praying that there is more to come.


    Seconded - the underlying engine looks impressive no doubt, the concern is actually seeing it in the shell.

    Anyone from MS on the Aero team wish to comment?
  • What a disapointment.

    I was hoping for a totally different Aero UI by the time of beta2 or rc1, because I totally hate this vista one The colors, the lack os consistency (for example, going from a translucent window to a black one, when app is resized) and  the lack of the Wow effect.

    Way to go Microsoft. You get some fire, and, like the cavern guy, used it to make smoke throwing it water.

    What a disapointment. Vista is now on my "forget about it" pile.

  • Have to agree with many posters here.

    The window manager now draws using DX - great! Mission Accomplished. However now that you have unlimited abilities why not use them? While Avalon seems to have solved the 2D graphics issues as per development and desiagn, many 3D usage questions are largely unresolved.

    Flipping windows and glass like transparency are yesterday's news. Vista would appear to have the engine of a Ferrari and the body of a Toyota Camry.

    And what's the deal with lack of skinning? Ok so grandma won't want skins, so why deny the ability to everyone? Even with skinning ability built in, is it built in in such a way that grandma is forced to use it? The uniformity of windows IS NOT THE SELLING POINT. I must have watched 10 videos today and ironically the thing most developers got most excited about was the revamping of the bundled games. Why is the creativity of Microsoft employees so stifled that they only feel comfrotable experimenting with the "unimportant" areas of Windows? Are people going to switch to OS X in droves because the Windows UI is "too 3D", that somehow there are too many skinable options and that they would therfore feel a need to use OS X to get a sense of conformity in their work? What kind of BS arguments are these?

    How ironic-when Kam is asked for something to show off about the new window manager, he has almost nothing to talk about and then says "This is super secret PDC bits- I'll show you THE NEW SOLITARE?" Hello? Solitare? That's the best the Windows Team can do? Oh and Minesweeper. Yeah that's some 21st century lipstick for the 1990's pig, alright. When I tune into the NBA Championships I want to see Micheal Jordon play. What group of people at Microsoft  hires 500+ Micheal Jordon's and then tells them they can't dunk and dribble, all they can do is pass and shoot from the outside because 400 million people in the audience might get too excited? Common people this is making me sad.

  • rhmrhm
    Just think, all those millions of transistors on the graphics accelerator banging away just for alpha blended window frames and thumbnail window previews. I pity this planet.

    All the work the original windows architects did to make windows as efficient as possible - the whole thing with the Paint event so we don't have to keep a full resolution copy of every window's contents in memory at the same time. Yeh, I guess we're not running on 16Mhz 386s any more, still, I saw all this stuff in Mac OS X and then it baffled me why people would use so much power to do something so pointless.

  • A few years ago, Microsoft Research wrote Task Gallery, a well thought out 3D window manager. I have always thought it was great...it's a shame that it doesn't look like it'll be a part of Vista.

    Also, someone mentioned being able to move taskbar buttons. Well, do a google search for GroupBar. MS Research also made a 'taskbar' that does that, but goes a step further and lets you group windows into tasks via the taskbar. Actually, that one you can even download free from MSR.

    It seems like the research folks are making great interfaces, but that the development groups are either unaware of their work, or they just don't care!    Sad    Sad

  • HooverManHooverMan The only Constant is Change
    Very very cool interface. really looking forward to developing apps for Vista
  • onon
    craig123 wrote:
    A few years ago, Microsoft Research wrote Task Gallery, a well thought out 3D window manager. I have always thought it was great...it's a shame that it doesn't look like it'll be a part of Vista.
    Also, someone mentioned being able to move taskbar buttons. Well, do a google search for GroupBar. MS Research also made a 'taskbar' that does that, but goes a step further and lets you group windows into tasks via the taskbar. Actually, that one you can even download free from MSR.

    I think the original idea of Task Gallery wasn't so nice but Apple copied it and made Exposé.
    I'm sure AERO will let developers create amazing taskswitchers so the built-in Flip3D will be overrideable. I don't really understand why MS didn't "copy" Exposé. I could imagine a better solution than Exposé though.
  • The final Aero UI is either Microsoft's best kept secret, or one HUGE let-down.

    I hope it's a secret, as there is almost nothing worth looking at in this video.

  • Will the new UI scale with GPU power?

    i.e. if I have a 5200 with 128Mb of ram then I can do glass but I have a low end card.  If I have SLI 7800GTX's then I have a fair more power, how will that effect the experiance?
  • Great Vid.  I hate to beat this one to death but...

    When Vista ships, Apple will have a field day with it and maybe use it in their marketing to promote the next version of OSX. i.e. 

    "Vista flip 3D, 2 keys, several arrow keys and a mouse click.  OSX Expose, one key and a mouse click"

    "Hmmmm, the copier must have run out of ink."

    "Drop Shadow finally"

    I hate to compare Vista to OSX because i dont like OSX (I use XP and OSX at work).  However, I've noticed more of my friends and family are switching to Apple.  I've been trying to convince them to wait at least until Vista ships,  pointing them to the channel9 videos to see what's in store.  Unfortunately, aside from flip 3D AND live thumbnails, it's nothing they haven't seen before.  And unfortunately, many of the finer details such as transition effects, drop shadow is now the defacto - thanks to Apple. 

    I am not trying to minimize what has been achieved in Vista.  I think it's great.  Now that we have this power, USE IT!!  Display it in all it's glory along with an awesome consistent design.  You say it has Pixel shaders, show it off.  Do more things that's never been done before.  But do it in a way that adds very impressive functional value.  It's just a shame that the only way to show this power to users is to launch Solitaire or to show them Flip 3D.  Anything else underneath WPF, like Indigo, is just geek talk that none of my friends or family would understand or care about.

    As one poster mentioned, Explorer is probably one of the most used applications.  This is Microsoft's chance at showing off what WPF is all about and could be a source of inspirations to Vista UX developers.

    I guess what it boils down to is that I'm sick and tired of trying to justify sticking to windows. 

    I really hope Apple will copy Microsoft instead.  And I'm hoping someone at Microsoft is listening to our concerns.
  • amotifamotif No Silver Bullet
    (Just catching up on old videos...)

    Okay, that's neat stuff.

    But it struck me that with all the focus on the cool, neat-o effects--glass, real-time transparency, buttons lighting up when you mouse over them--that in the midst of all this coolness the user couldn't tell that the maximize button on Calculator was disabled until mousing over it (2:35-2:46). In my book that's a big usability no-no, and I'm hoping that you won't forget the basics in the face of all the technically cool stuff.

    By the same token, Flip 3D is cool, but I hope you haven't taken away Alt-Tab so that I can still switch between two or three windows (of 12 or 15) quickly like I do in XP. [Okay, I see, it looks like it's still there.]

    Carry on. Smiley


Remove this comment

Remove this thread

close

Comments Closed

Comments have been closed since this content was published more than 30 days ago, but if you'd like to continue the conversation, please create a new thread in our Forums,
or Contact Us and let us know.