Sean Alexander (and others) - Windows Vista Sidebar and Gadgets
- Posted: Oct 20, 2005 at 12:04 AM
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Sidebar lives!
But it's even better, here Sean Alexander, David Streams, and special guest Sanaz Ahari of the Start.com team, demonstrate the new sidebar and gadgets that come in Windows Vista. Plus, we cover the three different kinds of gadgets and show how to build your own.
You can learn more on the Microsoft Gadget site.
But it's even better, here Sean Alexander, David Streams, and special guest Sanaz Ahari of the Start.com team, demonstrate the new sidebar and gadgets that come in Windows Vista. Plus, we cover the three different kinds of gadgets and show how to build your own.
You can learn more on the Microsoft Gadget site.
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I was at that presentation at PDC
You had that laptop at the "sidebar" table in the big room...
Widget
Gadget
http://www.konfabulator.com/cartoon/partFour.html
Don't you mean Konfabulator was a glint in Steve Jobs eye? That "widget" project was released in February 2003. When did the Longhorn pre-beta come out?
Remember, Apple and co. are focused on the end users. They're not focused on developers.. I would imagine the difference between Widgets and Gadgets is not in "what can you do", but "How easy can you build this?" After all, it's this reason you can go into a best buy and find thousands of PC programs. and a dozen Apple apps. (I know, more than that.. Gimme a break..
Anyone agree? (on my first point, not my cheap jab at Apple)
Well, Paul Thurrott had screenshots of the sidebar as far back as November 2002. Make of that what you will...
And then, I suppose to add to that, on the Konfabulator site, it said it was an idea he was thinking about five years before February 2003 (and the project was underway in 2002, but it just wasn't released until February 2003).
So, it's the old "who came up with it first" innovation argument. Which is then usually followed closely by the "yeah, but when did it arrive on MY platform?" argument.
Not that any of this productive.
It always goes: I'm ..... Program Manager on the .... team.
WPF supports the running of "Web Browser Applications", which are slightly different than the model that the Sidebar WPF gadgets will support. However you will be able to create a Web Browser Application with WPF with just a few XAML tweaks, reusing your existing layout and logic.
I haven't watched the vidio yet, but...
I'm guessing that the only way to write Gadgets is to use .NET. So then whether you run it in your browser or in the Sidebar it will run in a sort of "protected" mode so that your "safe" from malicious code. And don't forget that the only browser that they will probably run in will be IE7+.
http://www.msvistablog.net/page.php?23
ARE THEY RESIZABLE?
Seing that everything is vector based, they could/should all be infinitly be able to be resized to 999x999pixels or even 1x1 pixels.
Im a compact man and i want as much stuff in smallest space as possible.
I think that this is a huge thing that needs to be taken into consideration.
Also can i write gadgets in Visual Studio?
Like make a C# application and make it viewable as a gadget?
And is there a exe->gadget convertor for .NET v2.0 Applications?
We've announced that gadgets can be written in either DHTML or by using Windows Platform Foundation (.NET). The DHTML will have some small additions - such as events for moving the gadget on and of the sidebar - but other than that they will simply be HTML.
Additionally, we will have different security levels. Gadgets can run in a protected mode, or request more permission when they open so that they can interact with the machine.
We are definitely sensitive to the sizing of the Sidebar, and are making sure there are ways to have it take up as little space as necessary. Since gadgets can be written in WPF and DHTML, some gadgets aren't vector-based.
We are finalizing the developer experience, but you will be able to use Visual Studio in some fashion. For WPF gadgets, you will be able to compile your application as a gadget, but I do not expect .NET applications to be made into gadgets without recompiling. Although it will be simple.
Alrite I love where Microsoft is going with Vista and WPF (well done).
And with the introduction of Web Gadgets, are you aiming for the web to be application based in the future, so my webpage can be an application made in Visual Studio - I know this raises alot of issues, but it is a good step in communications.
An example of this would be like going Start->Run->http://ClockGadget.com and I have a clock similiar to the one in this video apear, without the constraints of current Web Browsers.
To me thats the future.
And back to topic, Do those Web Gadgets use WPF and XAML?
I would love to see rich internet experiences like Gadgets inside my webpage.
So like for weather.com have All these wonderfull 3D Gadgets of clouds and sunshine telling me my weather!
Like say for the topic i mentioned in the above paragraph with this one, a brilliant example would be the NorthFace Application as a WebPage!
Alrite I hope you like my opinions and reply quickly
-balupton
PS. and again brilliant work!
OS/2 Warp 4 with Sidebar......
Anyway, good video.
Hi, I'm Adam Kinney Software Development Engineer on the Channel9 team.
Keep your eye on MicrosoftGadgets.com. But for today, there is some information on Start.com.
Elroy, that would be me. Sorry. But you're getting my personality and it's not something I can easily remove from the videos I do.
This widescreen thing is a very good argument. Because most of the time it is just extra unneeded space which can easly be filled up with a sidebar. But let's say I have a widescreen convertable tabletPC, they will probaly arrive somewhere in the near future. Will I be able to automaticly turn off the sidebar (or put it to hide and show when mouse is close) when I switch from normal laptop mode to tabletPC mode?
Because when you switch there is no more extra screen space on the side of the screen, because it is now at the bottom of the screen.
Stay tuned to http://www.microsoftgadgets.com/ for all the information we have. Currently there is not a lot of information that we're providing about the limitations. Because gadgets will use HTML and Windows Presentation Foundation, if you understand one or the other of those technologies you will be very, very ready to write your first gadget.
I would like to see Gadgets and Widgets end up being cross-platform - meaning I could use Apple widgets with Windows Sidebar and Microsoft Gadgets with Dashboard. It would be nice if that could happen.
I'm not holding my breath though.
Overall I am pretty excited for Windows Sidebar and its Gadgets both for the desktop and also from Start.com.
As it says on the www.microsoftgadgets.com page MS Research published a paper on the idea in 2001 and had started work on it even before that. Konfabulator can say they had the idea in the 90's but where's the published proof?
Looks very cool, should make the desktop experience more interesting. More the reason to learn DHTML now!
Windows Platform Foundation?? Is .NET being renamed?
Ok, thanks for the clarification. With everything being renamed "Windows ___ Foundation", and with everything losing the .NET moniker (VS 2005, Passport), it would make sense if .NET itself were next...
Seriously though, this does look pretty cool though.
OMG they DO exist! DEVELOPERS at Microsoft!
I would like to see more developers in channel9 vids myself. Come on guys, we know you are in there somewhere. Somebody has to be writing all of this great software, and it sure isnt a program manager :O
Some folks on here are making comparisons of this cool new feature set to products like Konfabulator. Widgets gadgets, whatever have been around for a lot longer than those current projects. Does anyone remember Gizmos from Play Inc. for Windows, it worked on Win 98 and WinNT and on the Amiga before it.
I have to say the that saying Microsoft 'copied' seems to me pretty unfair, because these other products seem to have copied things before it. It's really easy to point fingers, but this type of product has been around forever. I think Microsoft has a pretty unique and powerful implementation myself.
Personally, I'd rather have developers building better apps than making preview videos. That said, a LOT of the videos feature developers.
Don't underestimate the importance of Program Managers, though.
Conceptually, Active Desktop is virtually the same as Dashboard/Sidebar/etc. "You can create Gadgets in WPF or DHTML". You could create Active Desktop components using Win32 or using DHTML. Seriously, the only thing that's really "new" with gadgets is the fact that they can be non-rectangular, better looking, and physically located in a bar on the side of your screen. Otherwise, it's just a rehash of existing ideas.
Active Desktop, like many other MS technologies, was simply ahead of its time. Back in 1997, people didn't have always-on internet connections, and PCs' system resources were more limited. (Another example of an MS technology ahead of its time: Channels. RSS feeds is virtually a clone, albeit a standards-based one, of Microsoft's 1997 Channels technology from IE4.)
Agree. And it not like it is ground breaking anyway. IMO, it is a vista version of the bottom-right task bar (notification area) to some degree. And that area is getting crowded as it seems everyone feels their app deserves a place there.
--wjs
I love the caffeinated vibe of this video.
grr i wish i was at PDC this year.
Both deserve alot of credit for their developments and their work on further extending the Desktop.
Now, what would be nice to see would be a download made available for the CTP, TAP & TBT groups on Connect that contained the Sidebar so we could actually TEST it. You know that's one of the things that caused so much attention to be placed on Longhorn/Vista and why there are so many imitators right now (i.e. DesktopSidebar, SmartBarXP, etc).
--ScottKin
BTW, Sean - if you're reading this: what happened to the DMC Geek Dinner at Crossroads? Never heard anything more about it...
Mmm, BMW is putting out a new car! It has four wheels and an internal combusion engine!
How is this not following Mercedes? Could BMW not take the leap and come up with a more inventive concept?
And what about using the same old "steering wheel" interface? Talk about not innovating!
Ha! I was scrolling through the responses just waiting for someone who has not been MS-brainwashed to remember "Desktop Accessories". Kudos to you for reminding everyone on this.
This is not to say that Apple invented everything, there is probably a lot of borrowing going on in both directions. Reflecting back on some of MS's "innovations" though, actually leaves me quite unimpressed (in no particular order):
1. Active desktop. A horrible idea, maybe Google will get it right though. When your OS has a drag-n-drop paradigm (which is inherently non-weblike) then you have a collision of ideas that doesn't work. Similarly, the OS is normally double-clickish and now suddenly we're single-clicking? Ugh.
2. MFC. Makes Swing look elegant.
3. COM / DCOM / COM+. Crap, crap and crap. Aren't these based on RPC anyway, which is part of the DCE (distributed computing environment) from soooo long ago? Although, to their credit it's a heckuva lot better than Corba (IDL's, anyone?.... stupid). I think the whole J2EE thing blows to, FYI, so I guess the winner is some combination of Ruby/Python/PERL/PHP. Who knows...
4. Visual Basic. They got the "visual" part exactly right, which is why it became so popular. Too bad the language is horrible. I'm not going to get up on a soapbox but suffice it to say that if Visual C had truly been "visual", like VB, then we would be in a different world right now.
5. ActiveX. Remember cutting-and-pasting GUIDs into code? Neither does anyone else, because it was thankfully short-lived.
6. MFC,no wait, DAO... no, ADO... no, wait, oh crud... let's just go back to ODBC.
7. OLE, no wait, DDE, no wait, aw heck we can't figure it out either.
8. FAT. no wait, FAT32. no wait, NTFS. no wait WinFS. Aw... maybe we should just use a real file system that's been in product for 20 years and that has free source code... I'll leave that exerecise to the reader.
9. INT 21h. No wait, WinAPI (with thunking!). No wait, WIN32. No wait, WinFX.
10. GDI. No wait, OpenGL. No wait, DirectX.
Does anyone see a pattern in their innovation here? Aimless wandering, sometimes with wonderful results that we all benefit from, but mostly either reinventing the wheel or else trying to force people into a proprietary solution.
Keep one other thing in mind... A lot of the *nixes out there have just as much luggage, but one thing is probably different: They were designed from the ground up as multi-user distributed secure timesharing environments. Windows was not, and though they have some of the smartest engineers on the planet, MS has to maintain backwards compatibility with all of their mistakes. *nix doesn't have to (file systems can be jettisoned, etc). Just a thought.
I agree with a previous post...although the interviewer had some insightful questions, his constant joking was distracting.
question for ya.
What brand / model of laptop is that?
What are you smoking on? by 2002-2003 there was this handy linux app called 'Karamba' which could be used to greate widgets to KDE desktop...
It's follower is called SuperKaramba and comes with current KDE-3.5 release.
http://netdragon.sourceforge.net/ssuperkaramba.html
http://users.student.lth.se/d98hk/karamba/
Karamba was loosely inspired by windows program called Samurize and another linux program called GKrellM
So, in theory, we will never know about originator where did Apple take their idea for Dashboard which is basicly Karamaba with steroids. And I do not belive that Apple could have built dashboard in couple of months like the way they did. I belive that since KDE-project and Apple have done together projects in past like KHTML which Apple calls as Webkit. (it also includes other KDE project components...) There is a good change that Dashboard is Karamba with steroids like the SuperKaramba is. KDE4 will include Apple widget support in it's SuperKaramba something follower alike program which is at this moment called Plasma.
Also Microsoft gadget board from 2003 was real windows taskbar panel integrated into it and was not separate program which you could take out apps or add applets into it. It was no way even near the Dashboard.
It's just plain and simple truth that Microsoft has copied Dashboard from Apple and re-edited it to make it look a like their past additional panel which had all stuff hardcoded into. If you ask me, it was more useful in that way that what it is at currently.
And yes, I used the leaked 4074 beta... :]
I hope you won't shoot/kick/ban/flame/etc. me now.
4074 has a lot of more stuff than what Beta2 does have. It's like power user's dream OS. Unfortunately everything it is a experiemental stage.
Oh by the way, if somebody at microsoft is able to read this, then please, please add that new Device Manager from 4074 if possible to Vista or at least into Vienna. It totally rocks. Also I'd totally love to have improved Jade-theme too. It was beautiful in it's own way and it's big blue next and previous buttons where realistic re-innovation in OS. 40xx had lots of good ideas. It's pretty bad to see that most of those have been scrapped in Beta2 which could have been so much more than just a update to security.
I was running a sidebar "gadget" thing with PC Tools on my old Windows 3.1 boxes in 1994.
WTF does it matter who thought it up first? If it works, is useful, and runs on the platform I want, I'm grateful.
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