Comment Feed for Channel 9 - Walter Bright: The D Programming Language http://ch9files.blob.core.windows.net/ch9/66b0/b28924b0-14cc-4c84-a180-abdb9ad666b0/LangNextWalterBrightTheDProgrammingLanguage_220.jpg Channel 9 - Walter Bright: The D Programming Language The D Programming Language combines modeling power, modern convenience, and native efficiency into one powerful language. D embodies many new ideas in programming languages along with traditional proven techniques. en Fri, 24 May 2013 06:13:18 GMT Fri, 24 May 2013 06:13:18 GMT Rev9 Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language
Is this talk going to be available for download (video)?

Cheers

posted by Ivan

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634696483117370623 Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:51:51 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634696483117370623 Ivan Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language Yes. I am uploading it today. Stay tuned...

posted by golnazal

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634697623812093344 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:33:01 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634697623812093344 golnazal Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language posted by Tarek

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634697838482371349 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 23:30:48 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634697838482371349 Tarek Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language

posted by fritz

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634698065062830121 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:48:26 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634698065062830121 fritz Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language
1) Good Visual Studio support. The VisualD plugin is not really what I mean, it is better than nothing but ^^... What one needs is basic IntelliSense, that is real and good code completion (I mean Clang has such stuff in the compiler) and basic refactoring (renaming is of utmost importance, I could live without the rest for a while). Well language should feel like other Visual Studio citizens.

2) Debugging. I know I can set some breakpoints and inspect variables but it all feels weird. I can't specifically say why. Just compare it with the way you debug C# or C++ apps in Visual Studio and you will know.

3) And probably the biggest issue. No C++ support. You said one would need a C++ compiler in D compiler. That is true, but you also said that this alone would require 10 men years of work and this is false. Just use ClangLib! For D to live on, it must support existing C++ codebases and this would also really set it ahead of anything there is. You could limit some advanced C++ features like some template vodoo to be used in D. So you could restrict the interface to something that is D compatible and maybe extend D at some corner cases where necessary.

No really, C++ backward compatibility would make D rather to an evolution of C++ and this is more or less what it is. D is how C++ should have been. But as we already discovered, if C++ would have been C backward compatible, the it would not have succeeded. And the same will happen to D. Butcher he langauge a bit and make it at least "almost" backwardcompatible to C++ APIs, not C++, only the APIs...

I would love to program with D, but for now it is just not possible, at least not in a commercial productive way.

posted by Luna

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634698200461311531 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:34:06 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634698200461311531 Luna Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language posted by Luna

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634698202548169002 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:37:34 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634698202548169002 Luna Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language

posted by Luna

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634698205368209561 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:42:16 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634698205368209561 Luna Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language posted by Ivan

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634698266856791427 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 11:24:45 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634698266856791427 Ivan Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language @Luna: There are three implementations if D compiler. Two of them are pretty stable. One is the GDC project which adds D support to the GCC, second is the LDC project, which builds a D compiler on top of LLVM. There are few others, most notably the SDC project, which is a D compiler based on LLVM written in D itself.

About your previous post related to "requirements for success"...
1) Support for VisualStudio is obviously important to you, but to other people who write server-software that is most likely going to work on Linux (there is no need to debate that anymore - Linux is de-facto the winner here), we actually need a good toolchain for Linux and BSD. Sure for Windows developers VisualStudio support is important, others could care less (including myself).
2) I agree that better debugging is important. GDB support is pretty fine.
3) D should not offer 100% C++ support. I think that with coming support for C++ namespaces D is pretty fine. If developer needs more - write a wrapper. On top of all said, all C++ library authors typically provide C interface along their libraries (if they want them to be used by wider community).

posted by Dejan Lekic

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634699060552999445 Fri, 13 Apr 2012 09:27:35 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634699060552999445 Dejan Lekic Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language 1. Good IDE. Faster than writing on C# in VS I never ever written! Good intellisense and debugging is a must have.
2. Lack of DBMS support. It must be fully functional, actively developed library with at least MS SQL, Oracle and MySQL support. Of course in most achievable generic way.
3. Same for GUI. I'm tired of ugly boxes names "Super controls for D", it's a cr@p. Neither DFL, nor DWT, GTkD and other wrappers can be used as a rich interface. Library must be flexible in terms of constructing new controls, flexible in using different data sources, easy to use and capable to change layout in runtime. Now D has nothing even close to it. And of course lib must be written in D, using all his power.

Anyway, I study D and will do as much as possible to push D in public.

posted by Vincent

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634699137107005186 Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:35:10 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634699137107005186 Vincent Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language 2) There are wrappers for almost every modern RDBMS drivers. However I agree that a higher level API similar to, say, JDBC would be great.
3) I agree with the last statement here - a proper GUI toolkit for D must be done in D, using it's excellent support for concurrency, take advantage of TLS, D's delegates, use std.json and store layout and widget info in JSON format, the same way Clutter project does...

posted by Dejan Lekic

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634699180139592019 Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:46:53 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634699180139592019 Dejan Lekic Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language
Ok I didn't look at all the others. But the front-end of the official compiler also contains some high priority bugs, showstoppers, like the inability of handling "ref" arguments to lambdas. Changes are not propagated, which renders the whole idea of lambdas pretty much useless for anything but pure functional ones... I just mean we shouldn't start to spawn a whole pile of compilers all having bugs and lacking feature in different areas (which is a common pattern in the OpenSource world) but instead one really good compiler should be written (like Clang). And I blame the original compiler, because it was not entirely OpenSource. Otherwise there would not have been the need of reinventing the wheel...

> About your previous post related to "requirements for success"...
> 1) Support for VisualStudio is obviously important to you, but to

Well, I think you are missing the point. When looking at recent charts of OS distribution, Linux is not even a rounding error anymore, at least on Desktops. How it looks on servers is a different matter but then I highly doubt that any sane person would dare to use D in (productive) server segment, as long as it is not proven to work correctly in the Desktop segment (and it has still a lot of bugs!). Anyway, the priority should not be to support a small fraction of developers first. Reaching the masses is much more effective and you do that by supporting Visual Studio... And a Visual Studio plugin for 2010 and above is not that hard to write if the compiler supports code-completion and reflection already.

> 2) I agree that better debugging is important. GDB support is pretty fine.

Well for some people it might be. The state-of-the art is way beyond GDB and when you chose a new language you don't want to take a step backwards.

> 3) D should not offer 100% C++ support.

Well I said not 100%. But pretty much anything that is vital for most APIs to work...

> If developer needs more - write a wrapper.

This attitude won't work out. And in general reality works quite differently. D wants to get into a segment between C++ and say C#. This is a tough competition! There is simply no room for such a "do it yourself" attitude. D MUST reuse what we already have to even stand a slightest chance of becoming mainstream. I would recommend to support a major part of the C++ APIs, which should be possible, and maybe even some automatic wrapper generation to interact with existing .NET code. Thanks to D's garbage collector this might work out quite well...

posted by Luna

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634699260462514501 Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:00:46 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634699260462514501 Luna Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language posted by Anonymous coward

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634699999806186329 Sat, 14 Apr 2012 11:33:00 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634699999806186329 Anonymous coward Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language
@Dejan Lekic:
Leko, ajd prestani vise da nas maltretiras sa Linux-om, dosta smo te trpeli po forumima u Srbiji proslu deceniju, moras li i ovde da trubis (clear winner, bla, bla, bla)?

Ovo je ipak MSDN, a ljudi su naravno primarno zainteresovani za Visual Studio. Imas /. pa tamo slobodno..

Uostalom, sta to znaci - clear winner? Apple nije clear winner na desktopu, npr., pa to ne sprecava ljude da kupuju njihove dekstop/laptop masine i slicno.

Ko uostalom pise vise server-side poslovne aplikacije u C++ i slicnim (nizim, ne kazem ovo u losem smislu) jezicima? Jako, jako retko. A ako se radi o sistemskim aplikacijama (web, mail serveri i slicno), sigurno da to nece prelaziti na D u skorije vreme.

posted by David Rakic

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634704779992414428 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 00:19:59 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634704779992414428 David Rakic Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language Everybody's welcome here, even the M$ $ucks crowd. As long as you're respectful of others, chime in, watch, listen, learn, teach. C9 is a happy place.

C

posted by Charles

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634704784045125759 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 00:26:44 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634704784045125759 Charles Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language posted by Anon

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634706186549656203 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:24:14 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634706186549656203 Anon Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language
This is one very reason why Linux will never enter the consumer market. This attitude is typical to almost any Linux guy I know. They just don't get it why Windows is useable and used by normal people and thus they will have no chance at all to create a Linux that is consumer friendly, actually there is nothing close but Mac OS, which is too locked-in in my opinion, meaning it feels like a fridge.

So back to topic, if you want a mainstream language, you need excellent mainstream tools for mainstream operating systems. There are two kinds of guys seriously developing productive software in editors:

1) Ingenious people (like Andrei for one) with a great memory, those are quite countable on our little earth ball
2) The cool collage guy who thinks he looks smart by not using IDE but actually has no idea what he is doing at all.

posted by Luna

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634706351041865707 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 19:58:24 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634706351041865707 Luna Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language posted by Nemo

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634709441823572295 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 09:49:42 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634709441823572295 Nemo Re: Walter Bright: The D Programming Language posted by Luna

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634710237162429893 Thu, 26 Apr 2012 07:55:16 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2012/The-D-Programming-Language#c634710237162429893 Luna