Comment Feed for Channel 9 - HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

ruiespinho — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:24:26 GMT

no mp4 ?

posted by ruiespinho

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

pvil — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 22:27:32 GMT

I think people is not ready yet to html5 bcause upgrading upgrading the browseris not a easy task for normal people. Html5 means you have to develop both,html 5 and html4 + plugin compatible. It´s not safe to say that people s ready is IE6-7-8 around and old firefox versions

posted by pvil

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

rodo — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 23:28:49 GMT

Thanks Giorgio Sardo, very informative session. I got convinced that HTML 5 is the way to go, for most (not all) projects.

posted by rodo

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

joeyw — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 03:32:16 GMT

There are equivalents to low-level Silverlight elements. But we're still missing a real HTML5 framework like GWT or something. RIght now it's like going back to Silverlight 1. No .NET and just the primitives.

posted by joeyw

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Phil Jacobsen — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:41:07 GMT

For LOB applications, Silverlight will remain highly superior in time-to-market, performance, and user experience. We simply couldn't use HTML/Java because of poor performance in a complex business logic scenario (real time scheduling). HTML5 is better for general websites, though, where broad-based access is required.

posted by Phil Jacobsen

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Chris — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:46:30 GMT

I like what's coming but...What's missing from HTML5 development? Sophisticated Clipboard, Reliable offline, Printing, Reporting. How about Linq, Databinding, MVVM support. I realize that there are various OS projects, but why should I have to hodge-podge an application. I want MS to at least provide a suitable development environment/framework. Otherwise what is the value added that MS is providing? What about tooling? Is it as productive as writing SL applications? Is there a built-in profiler like in SL5. IE6 was the pain point but now it looks like the other browsers will be the pain point(s). How long until the HTML5 pieces are there for all of the browsers on all platforms? Giorgio said it, only you know the right solution.

posted by Chris

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Scottw — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:27:44 GMT

Having spent the last 3 years learning silverlight, C# and MVVM OOP practises with the aim of producing reusable code I find this HTML5 session a bit depressing. Its like going back to the dark ages of mashed up javascript that nobody apart from the person who wrote it can understand. Loads of convertors to get the XAML/C# working in javascript and a whole load of pain for us developers. Still if Apple are using it it must be brilliant. Disappointed

posted by Scottw

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Greenhill Joson — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 12:45:04 GMT

Great bit!

posted by Greenhill Joson

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Tom Roggero — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:21:14 GMT

"Normal people not ready to upgrade the browser" ? Are you serious?
What is the rule that make normal people ? Considering "people that uses the most common browser" let's say that is Firefox, (because IE is fractioned between versions) then that kind of people is used to upgrade their browser.

Then.. ?

posted by Tom Roggero

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Don Burnett — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:03:38 GMT

While I love HTML 5, it's pretty cool.. The big difference between Silverlight and HTML 5's SVG and canvas, is that Silverlight is a retained-mode system with reusable graphics assets and it's own eventing etc. Built in..

If you explore HTML 5 and Silverlight, you will find that Silverlight being a RETAINED mode system is much more capable, though doesn't work on systems like the iPad, so you really have to look at your use case and what works the best for who you are targeting (devices/customers) and what you are trying to do..

I wrote this blog article on January 29th, it's amazing how much of the same material is being covered.

http://www.uxmagic.com/blog/category/Expression-Design.aspx

posted by Don Burnett

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Don Burnett — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:05:40 GMT

and here

http://www.uxmagic.com/blog/post/2010/11/06/AI-to-Canvas-by-the-Mix-Online-Folks.aspx

posted by Don Burnett

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Joe Gershgorin — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 17:17:16 GMT

I don't agree with the broad reach argument of HTML 5. Silverlight technically has a broader reach. Most of use can't program for IE 9+ only and thus can't rely on accelerated performance, so we end up developing for the lowest common denominator. Silverlight gives consistent performance across browsers/platforms. And for mobile usage you have to re-engineer the UI anyway in most cases so your desktop UI isn't really re-usable. So we're back to pretty much where we started, yeah we can write something with broader mobile support but at the sacrifice of rich UI/animation, interactivity and easily maintainable code. Seems like we had to make 5 steps back to move 1 step forward, not too happy about the trade off. HTML 5 is good replacement for HTML 4, not Silverlight.

posted by Joe Gershgorin

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Phil Jacobsen — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 18:45:45 GMT

Joe Gershgorin makes a good point regarding limited "broad reach" of HTML5. Everyone with HTML authorship experience knows that when writing anything the least bit interesting you're bound to hit inconsistencies across browsers, and so ensues the ususal cross-browser maintenance nightmare. This will only worsen as browsers unevenly implement the much more complicated and evolving spec that is HTML5.

Thanks Joe

posted by Phil Jacobsen

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Apr 2011 00:10:44 GMT

I have believed in Microsoft's recomendations and I have recomended the use Silverlight as next technology to be adopted in my company's LOB applications.

After months of hard work e feel like I've wasted the time that I should have been with my friends and family, or doing something usefull like learning java or even how to cook properlly, completely in vain.

Now, I wonder if Microsoft will give me a job when I get fired from my company since my boss will tell me I was wasting company time, money and resources into a technology with no future

I'm posting this anonymously because I do not want my boss and my colleagues already know that I'm losing faith in technology that convinced them to use, wasting their time, effort and money .

You are all a bunch of kids playing with other people's efforts.

Yet, no one is saying to leave silverlight. Well at least no one has the balls to say it frontally.

posted by Anonymous

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

ddjr — Fri, 15 Apr 2011 12:40:22 GMT

What a waste. Dude, you've picked the wrong crowd to convert. Or should I say, to feed corporate pigs and justify their nonsense salaries (read - stealing) from shortsighted S. Balmer. Bring back B. Gates, he's at least got intuition and imagination.

posted by ddjr

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

frank — Fri, 15 Apr 2011 14:42:34 GMT

The title is wrong, it should read:
HTML5 for Silverlight v1 Developers.

It is like going from Managedcode to Assembler.
The funny part is that there are less machines than can run these examples than SL.

posted by frank

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Jon — Fri, 15 Apr 2011 18:08:22 GMT

Thanks for the comments above. I won't waste my time watching this. Having programmed in the past using javascript and SVG via Adobe's SVG plug-in, I will adapt to HTML5 but for now will be one of those who will push for Silverlight even if Microsoft has lost its resolve by bending over for Apple.

posted by Jon

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Frank — Sun, 17 Apr 2011 18:42:34 GMT

YOU get the point. Don't understand why Microsoft don't understand this. Microsoft MUST realize a Silverlight + XAML to Javascript + SVG converter, and Javascript must be pissed off, that is.

posted by Frank

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Paul — Sun, 17 Apr 2011 18:46:35 GMT

@Scottw
I'm not alone, i see. I love Silverlight, i hate Javascript. I'm VERY, totally angry with Microsoft and Apple fanboys. My productivity will be ZERO until now.

posted by Paul

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Priya_M — Sun, 17 Apr 2011 20:19:38 GMT

Great session but I wish MS had a better guideline on when to use SL versus HTML5

posted by Priya_M

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Andrew — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 19:30:26 GMT

Microsoft built Silverlight and people like me spent many years learning. Now Microsoft is down playing Silverlight and pushing very hard on HTML 5. I can say I am not very happy to spend so much time on Silverlight for MS to now switch direction to HTML 5. What MS needs to do is make Silverlight run without a plugin. In the background they can compile Silverlight to run using HTML 5

posted by Andrew

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Bob — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 19:50:54 GMT

How much money did Microsoft get for switching from Silverlight to HTML 5? I guess it's time to dropping Microsoft tools and go to adobie.

posted by Bob

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

pvil — Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:50:21 GMT

@Tom Roggero:

I say that because tendencies like:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9199519/Microsoft_s_China_problem_means_IE6_lives_on

or see any statistics on browsers in Africa, South America, or most of the internet cafe's based on IE6-7.

It will take a long time to get rid of html4+plugin, therefore your development team will not only be productive in html4+ plugin, but sharp in the latest emerging 'standard' technologies.

Let me quote 'standard', because of the next question: why Silverlight cannot be pushed as a standard as well as html5?

posted by pvil

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

npolyak — Sun, 01 May 2011 22:48:33 GMT

I was actually appalled at the fact that MS is pushing this hodge-podge in place of Silverlight. Yes, there are now many things that can be done in HTML 5 that could not be done in HTML 4, but I still see no way to do build them fast and to facilitate re-use - something that SL's C# language and MVVM pattern allows you to do. Also - the proprietory CSS3 tags - just the old story all over again.

posted by npolyak

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Fledder — Thu, 05 May 2011 09:18:57 GMT

There are no proprietary CSS3 tags, those vendor-prefixed tags are perfectly within standards. It is THE standard way to start using CSS3 properties now, without having to wait for each browser to support it officially. As time moves on, less of them will be needed.

posted by Fledder

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Nick Polyak — Fri, 06 May 2011 16:08:51 GMT

They are proprietary in a sense that they are not going to be working on any other browsers except for IE9

posted by Nick Polyak

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Nick Polyak — Fri, 06 May 2011 16:36:03 GMT

So far I have never seen a business app written entirely in Java Script. In fact JS sucks so much that people prefer totally regenerating the web pages on the server even for purely client side operations. Pure JS can only be used for very simple sites.
I do not see at all how HTML 5 is going to rectify this problem.

posted by Nick Polyak

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Vasily — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 17:40:49 GMT

@Nick Polyak
I have developed completely Javascript / HTML5 / CSS3 / JSON enabled + Dynamic backend with JSON ASP.NET services.
Application works completely offline / online and is completely Object Oriented inside Javascript (Javascript is very very very flexible on object model, if you don't know this - google it).
Application is on one page with 7000 lines of code + loads everything dynamically from JSON objects (generic dynamic json objects generated by .NET). And this app works perfectly offline / online from iPad, Blackberry PlayBook, any Android mobile devices, Chrome or Safari. And as addition - this HTML5 app is perfectly smooth and fast in UI with transform3d and it manages a few thousands products and track backend store production...
Everything is easy guys as long as:
1) You have open-minded brains with architechtural skills to decide which technology to use and HOW excactly use it's powers.
2) You do go deep dive with the technology you choose - and choose the oprimal architechtural model for application. Which means that bad analyst/designer/programmer and Silverlight app will be worse than any html4 app with good approach.
Good luck to everyone in development.

posted by Vasily

Re: HTML5 for Silverlight Developers

Johan — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:05:45 GMT

You can be interested : a silverlight to javascript/html5 translator/runtime.
See : www.silverhtml.com

posted by Johan