Channel 9 Forums - Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. http://mschnlnine.vo.llnwd.net/d1/Dev/App_Themes/C9/images/feedimage.png Channel 9 Forums - Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums Channel 9 keeps you up to date with the latest news and behind the scenes info from Microsoft that developers love to keep up with. From LINQ to SilverLight – Watch videos and hear about all the cool technologies coming and the people behind them. http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums en Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:58:24 GMT Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:58:24 GMT Rev9 24 -24 -1 Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
Any details coming out of the PDC regarding the re-written audio stack?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/112371#112371 Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:32:40 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/112371#112371 birchy 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/birchy/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. I too want info on this.

Scoble can you tell us when the Larry video will ship? Smiley

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/c42fc66d93ae4a8aa2549deb00df6167#c42fc66d93ae4a8aa2549deb00df6167 Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:42:01 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/c42fc66d93ae4a8aa2549deb00df6167#c42fc66d93ae4a8aa2549deb00df6167 Manip 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Manip/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. Tomorrow.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/af94ea90ba83486bab219deb00df61d2#af94ea90ba83486bab219deb00df61d2 Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:53:30 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/af94ea90ba83486bab219deb00df61d2#af94ea90ba83486bab219deb00df61d2 scobleizer 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/scobleizer/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
scobleizer wrote:
Tomorrow.
Too much hype & anticipation. It's just gonna disappoint. Just like Star Wars ep I, II, III.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/775b779f19fc493facfa9deb00df6240#775b779f19fc493facfa9deb00df6240 Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:55:19 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/775b779f19fc493facfa9deb00df6240#775b779f19fc493facfa9deb00df6240 Minh 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Minh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. Since there's no NDA on beta 1... The new audio stack drops all hardware acceleration and is as of broken in multiprocessor mode. Internally, it seems to have been restructured, using things called audio transform modules (or something), that'll take care of getting the data prepared for optimal output. Other than that, details are sketchy.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/ddea5b41b5d74f6780df9deb00df62b2#ddea5b41b5d74f6780df9deb00df62b2 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:02:08 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/ddea5b41b5d74f6780df9deb00df62b2#ddea5b41b5d74f6780df9deb00df62b2 Tom Servo 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Tom Servo/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
Tom Servo wrote:
Since there's no NDA on beta 1... The new audio stack drops all hardware acceleration and is as of broken in multiprocessor mode. Internally, it seems to have been restructured, using things called audio transform modules (or something), that'll take care of getting the data prepared for optimal output. Other than that, details are sketchy.
How's DRM woven into this? Are the days of re-recording a DRM-protected WMA files gone for good?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/935df7916335430892f09deb00df6323#935df7916335430892f09deb00df6323 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:06:26 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/935df7916335430892f09deb00df6323#935df7916335430892f09deb00df6323 Minh 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Minh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. No idea. I'm sure there's some DRM in there, but I don't expect Total Recorder et al to break. At least I can't remember anything about an audio equivalent of PVP-OPM.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/0dfc305a16494bbc87c89deb00df6394#0dfc305a16494bbc87c89deb00df6394 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:08:20 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/0dfc305a16494bbc87c89deb00df6394#0dfc305a16494bbc87c89deb00df6394 Tom Servo 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Tom Servo/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
Tom Servo wrote:
No idea. I'm sure there's some DRM in there, but I don't expect Total Recorder et al to break. At least I can't remember anything about an audio equivalent of PVP-OPM.
Frankly, I'd be SHOCKED if DRM is not involved in the stack.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/ebdb1078ebcf47bfaf829deb00df6404#ebdb1078ebcf47bfaf829deb00df6404 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:10:52 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/ebdb1078ebcf47bfaf829deb00df6404#ebdb1078ebcf47bfaf829deb00df6404 Minh 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Minh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
Minh wrote:
Tom Servo wrote: No idea. I'm sure there's some DRM in there, but I don't expect Total Recorder et al to break. At least I can't remember anything about an audio equivalent of PVP-OPM.
Frankly, I'd be SHOCKED if DRM is not involved in the stack.


You can playback DRM'ed content using the new stack, that's certainly true Smiley

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/b84f030d1917465b92079deb00df6476#b84f030d1917465b92079deb00df6476 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:26:27 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/b84f030d1917465b92079deb00df6476#b84f030d1917465b92079deb00df6476 LarryOsterman 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/LarryOsterman/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
Tom Servo wrote:
Since there's no NDA on beta 1... The new audio stack drops all hardware acceleration and is as of broken in multiprocessor mode. Internally, it seems to have been restructured, using things called audio transform modules (or something), that'll take care of getting the data prepared for optimal output. Other than that, details are sketchy.


It shouldn't be broken in any mode, as far as we've heard, if you're hearing bugs, I'd love to hear about them.

The audio stack is a total, bottom-up rewrite, entirely in user mode.  The DSP that used to be done by sysaudio is now being done with pluggable modules called Audio Processing Objects, or APOs.

The video tomorrow will have more info than that.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/b1067b5422cc40a5b9819deb00df64e6#b1067b5422cc40a5b9819deb00df64e6 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:27:59 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/b1067b5422cc40a5b9819deb00df64e6#b1067b5422cc40a5b9819deb00df64e6 LarryOsterman 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/LarryOsterman/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. "The audio stack is a total, bottom-up rewrite, entirely in user mode. "

Can drivers live in usermode now?

p.s. The new textbox is still buggy.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/93899a0eec7c4b56959c9deb00df6551#93899a0eec7c4b56959c9deb00df6551 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:33:57 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/93899a0eec7c4b56959c9deb00df6551#93899a0eec7c4b56959c9deb00df6551 Cairo 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Cairo/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
LarryOsterman wrote:
Minh wrote: Frankly, I'd be SHOCKED if DRM is not involved in the stack.


You can playback DRM'ed content using the new stack, that's certainly true
But can you RECORD a playing DRM'ed content? Smiley

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/9ff52011e1bc403b9b589deb00df65bd#9ff52011e1bc403b9b589deb00df65bd Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:40:39 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/9ff52011e1bc403b9b589deb00df65bd#9ff52011e1bc403b9b589deb00df65bd Minh 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Minh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. Other than security ^shrug^ I don't see the advantage in placing the audio bits in user-mode. In fact it sounds like a way to make the audio sub-system laggy to me.

Edit: This would also 'fix' fast-user switching where music can continue to play while you switch users.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/df3636f34efe42efb7cf9deb00df6624#df3636f34efe42efb7cf9deb00df6624 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:54:39 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/df3636f34efe42efb7cf9deb00df6624#df3636f34efe42efb7cf9deb00df6624 Manip 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Manip/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
Manip wrote:

Other than security ^shrug^ I don't see the advantage in placing the audio bits in user-mode. In fact it sounds like a way to make the audio sub-system laggy to me.

Edit: This would also 'fix' fast-user switching where music can continue to play while you switch users.



Humorously enough, the "stop playing on fast user switching" feature (and yes, we had that as a feature) was left on the cutting room floor.  Losing that feature was it was my biggest regret in Vista.

And there are a LOT of really good reasons, not the least of which is the ability to remove seven different device drivers.  Don't understimate the impact of that, it's actually huge.

Moving the audio stack to user mode also enabled a huge amount of flexibility in what we can do with the stack, some of which will come out in the video.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/b22bed02029f4435817d9deb00df668c#b22bed02029f4435817d9deb00df668c Thu, 15 Sep 2005 01:02:50 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/b22bed02029f4435817d9deb00df668c#b22bed02029f4435817d9deb00df668c LarryOsterman 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/LarryOsterman/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
Cairo wrote:
"The audio stack is a total, bottom-up rewrite, entirely in user mode. "

Can drivers live in usermode now?

p.s. The new textbox is still buggy.



Not in Vista. 

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/c3b95dae8dc04e19ba819deb00df66f6#c3b95dae8dc04e19ba819deb00df66f6 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 01:03:40 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/c3b95dae8dc04e19ba819deb00df66f6#c3b95dae8dc04e19ba819deb00df66f6 LarryOsterman 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/LarryOsterman/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. A tantilizing way to phrase your answer. Smiley

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/7069829f3f1f4a55b9e89deb00df675e#7069829f3f1f4a55b9e89deb00df675e Thu, 15 Sep 2005 02:34:47 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/7069829f3f1f4a55b9e89deb00df675e#7069829f3f1f4a55b9e89deb00df675e Cairo 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Cairo/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
Tom Servo wrote:
No idea. I'm sure there's some DRM in there, but I don't expect Total Recorder et al to break. At least I can't remember anything about an audio equivalent of PVP-OPM.


http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stream/output_protect.mspx

They are calling "Protected Audio Path" a future initiative.

There's already "Secure Audio Path" in WMP, but given that half that stuff happens at the kernel level... I'm not sure how relevant it is to PUMA.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/e15bd5f375944c9ba8739deb00df67cb#e15bd5f375944c9ba8739deb00df67cb Thu, 15 Sep 2005 02:51:18 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/e15bd5f375944c9ba8739deb00df67cb#e15bd5f375944c9ba8739deb00df67cb Karim 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Karim/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
Minh wrote:
LarryOsterman wrote:
Minh wrote: Frankly, I'd be SHOCKED if DRM is not involved in the stack.


You can playback DRM'ed content using the new stack, that's certainly true
But can you RECORD a playing DRM'ed content?


Unless it’s encrypted going to the output device you can just get a male-to-male 3.5 mm cable and connect the speaker out to the mic in. And if it is encrypted at some point it has to go to an electromagnet to be heard, so I assume with some hardware modifications you could record it there too.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/b9e5b678f6fe4eabbca49deb00df6837#b9e5b678f6fe4eabbca49deb00df6837 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 03:10:43 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/b9e5b678f6fe4eabbca49deb00df6837#b9e5b678f6fe4eabbca49deb00df6837 Programous 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Programous/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
Cairo wrote:
A tantilizing way to phrase your answer.



Cairo, I wish it was.  I have no idea if user mode audio drivers will be able to be written in the future, I do know that the audio drivers still run in kernel mode for vista.

This is NOT intended as a hint of the future, I flat-out don't know.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/7d95275483af41da99079deb00df68a5#7d95275483af41da99079deb00df68a5 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 04:55:50 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/7d95275483af41da99079deb00df68a5#7d95275483af41da99079deb00df68a5 LarryOsterman 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/LarryOsterman/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. I still think it's going to be like Creative's global sound effects... Like - "Cave" and "Bathroom" and various other effects. Seen it, played with it, it isn't that useful after you finish the fun and games.

Also, if Microsoft did move (after Vista) towards more user-mode drivers would that make the NT kernel a micro or monolithic kernel? Or some new crazy crossbreed that tries to bring the best features of both worlds (speed and security/modularity)? Smiley 

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/34fa0bebc6694e0fa3f09deb00df6914#34fa0bebc6694e0fa3f09deb00df6914 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 05:02:11 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/34fa0bebc6694e0fa3f09deb00df6914#34fa0bebc6694e0fa3f09deb00df6914 Manip 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Manip/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. Consider yourself lucky, my Audigy2 is hissing, popping, dropping out, not playing at all and a variety of other weird problems under Vista x64, even though I have only one CPU. Plus I can only get surround sound through waveout, not DS. I hope the PDC build will improve the situation.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/1a60d4ba2a7644948a269deb00df69fb#1a60d4ba2a7644948a269deb00df69fb Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:43:31 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/1a60d4ba2a7644948a269deb00df69fb#1a60d4ba2a7644948a269deb00df69fb Sven Groot 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Sven Groot/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack.
LarryOsterman wrote:
It shouldn't be broken in any mode, as far as we've heard, if you're hearing bugs, I'd love to hear about them.

Well, I've reported it already, but here we go again:

It's pretty simple. My dual P3-933 can play audio on my Audigy (with the least broken drivers, not even sure whose fault it is, Creative or MS, tend to go with former due history) perfectly when booting up in single CPU mode, but as soon I go back into multiprocessor mode, I get heavy glitching, skipping and last but not least pauses, as if it didn't get the data to the card on time.

And when the Creative drivers break again, it sounds like there'd be a problem with memory offset or endianness. Which is strange, because things work peachy when playing back via KS instead of DSound. KS works fine in single and multi mode, no matter what driver version or how broken DirectSound is in it. Considering that due the rewrite, everything KS seems to go more or less the same path as DSound, something must be really broken in beta 1.

--edit: vvvv Get Foobar 2000 0.8, set the KS plugin as output and choose 32bit depth. Should play just fine. I get the same issues on DSound, except in single CPU mode with certain drivers, but I dont want to leave one of my CPUs run idle.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/f7101e46d4e04741851e9deb00df6988#f7101e46d4e04741851e9deb00df6988 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:44:44 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/f7101e46d4e04741851e9deb00df6988#f7101e46d4e04741851e9deb00df6988 Tom Servo 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Tom Servo/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. I am interested in hearing what Vista will offer professional musicians who use Windows to accomplish much of their work (e.g., using Cakewalk SONAR or similar applications).

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/f8b36fca5c3745e2906c9deb00df6a69#f8b36fca5c3745e2906c9deb00df6a69 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:16:11 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/f8b36fca5c3745e2906c9deb00df6a69#f8b36fca5c3745e2906c9deb00df6a69 PaintedBlue 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/PaintedBlue/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - New Audio stack. Is this still being released today? Or did Scoble get too wasted to edit videos Tongue Out

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/2dda2766cd284c52826f9deb00df6ad7#2dda2766cd284c52826f9deb00df6ad7 Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:25:25 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/112371-New-Audio-stack/2dda2766cd284c52826f9deb00df6ad7#2dda2766cd284c52826f9deb00df6ad7 Manip 24 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Manip/Discussions/RSS