When does learning and developing become fun?

I am just wondering if any time soon learning C\C++ is going to become fun and alot more interesting instead of mundane.


About how much of the language knowledge is needed for the fun to begin?

Are you programming for a PC? A PC is a boring platform to program for.

Build a robot around a PIC microcontroller, write a game for your favorite video game console, or learn the VHDL programming language and build something for the expansion slot in your PDA.

Never.

Learn Python, Java, C# / Boo / Nemerle if you want to have fun programming.

That was "hah hah funny" joke, so don't crucify me, you C++ masochists. ;(

I know how frustrating it is

For a more hands-on approach to C++, search the web for tutorials. You still have to know the basics of C++ programming (pointers, oo) but it will payoff.
For most applications, C# is more productive and you get to actually do something faster.

For me, the fun isn't about the languages; it's about the applications you're writing.

It's fun from the time you program the "hello, world" program. If your not having fun then your not a programmer . j/k of course. Sort of.

cpach wrote:

I am just wondering if any time soon learning C\C++ is going to become fun and alot more interesting instead of mundane.

I don't know what to say.  I think out of the languages I have learned, whether through a teacher, books, or being self-taught, C/C++ is one of the most tortured languages to work with.  It always felt like you were fighting the language syntax and the compiler half the time (starting off with Borland products probably made my initial experiences MUCH worse, though).  It doesn't help that there is a lot of mediocre programming books/tutorials out there, and I think half the time the authors don't really "get it" themselves. 

Keep in mind I have used assembly, BASIC, VB, C, C++, C#, Pascal, HTML, Javascript, and SQL.  Okay, so the last three aren't full blown "programming languages" but you get the idea.  I have typed in machine language programs without the benefit of an assembler.  I actually have found assembly to be more entertaining than C/C++ (maybe I should be working on robots or microcontrollers or other things...hmmm).  C++ is inconsistent in its implementation of its own syntax rules which makes it even worse, and the distinctions between user defined functions and library functions can be almost impossible to spot in a program if you are just starting out.

Ok so all of you agree that it can be a boring/hard language to learn but can it be fun? Any of you have any programs that are worth a look for a beginner? I want to do some applications that are fun but all of them on the web are either hello world or a console app that a teacher would use for figuring out an average. I need the fun. I need to know that this language is a great one to start out with. I have come to you all for advice and mentoring.

Buy a book on DirectX 9 and another one (or a couple) on game programming or surf some of the game programming sites, and then write a game!  Pick something simple at first (which isn't going to be nearly as simple to code as you think it is... hence, don't try and write Flight Simulator 2010 ).

There's a great book called Game Programming Complete.  The guy worked for Origin Systems on the Ultima series, and later I think he worked on the Microsoft Casino project.  Lots of cool and interesting tidbits in the book.

Maybe write a roulette game?

cpach wrote:

Ok so all of you agree that it can be a boring/hard language to learn but can it be fun? Any of you have any programs that are worth a look for a beginner? I want to do some applications that are fun but all of them on the web are either hello world or a console app that a teacher would use for figuring out an average. I need the fun. I need to know that this language is a great one to start out with. I have come to you all for advice and mentoring.

To start out with stick with C++ for functional purposes. It'll give you the basis and platform which almost every language in someway or another stem from. That being said I'm going to say I kinda went the round robin approach to learning programming...

I started of with BASIC, then dropped outa the programming scene, came back and learned HTML, then learned VB.NET, then learned CSS, then learned some C#.NET, then learned some PHP, and am now trying to learn C++.

After all that it was awkward because of all the things that I did learn along the way I would read the C++ book and it was more challenging reading that because it would go over coding coventions and I was like "Duh I already know this". Or it would go over arrays and I already understood it from C# days...

MY recommendation is to learn yourself C++,ASM, and some other low level languages first...get the base taken care of while your untainted...then learn the higher languages...C#.NET, and other .NET languages while your still around the "Win Forms" neighborhood. Then go if you want into web languages...HTML,CSS,PHP, ASP.NET, etc,etc that way you have the base...then worked up the platform...and then understand where it can all be tied into.

And for fun read XML standards for RSS...I always get a kick outa schemas.

When will it all be fun? When you die.

Why is it fun....it's the applications you write that make it fun.

JChung2006 wrote:

For me, the fun isn't about the languages; it's about the applications you're writing.

for me, the fun isn't about the applications or languages,  money makes it fun , money makes the earth goes round.

jsrfc58 wrote:

cpach wrote:I am just wondering if any time soon learning C\C++ is going to become fun and alot more interesting instead of mundane.

I don't know what to say.  I think out of the languages I have learned, whether through a teacher, books, or being self-taught, C/C++ is one of the most tortured languages to work with.  It always felt like you were fighting the language syntax and the compiler half the time (starting off with Borland products probably made my initial experiences MUCH worse, though).  It doesn't help that there is a lot of mediocre programming books/tutorials out there, and I think half the time the authors don't really "get it" themselves. 

Keep in mind I have used assembly, BASIC, VB, C, C++, C#, Pascal, HTML, Javascript, and SQL.  Okay, so the last three aren't full blown "programming languages" but you get the idea.  I have typed in machine language programs without the benefit of an assembler.  I actually have found assembly to be more entertaining than C/C++ (maybe I should be working on robots or microcontrollers or other things...hmmm).  C++ is inconsistent in its implementation of its own syntax rules which makes it even worse, and the distinctions between user defined functions and library functions can be almost impossible to spot in a program if you are just starting out.

absoultetly C plus plus, almost 1 line of C++(the high performance and scalability) is worth 100 lines of C# code, so C# progammers are more like a manual labourer, that's why people hate robots who may steal their repeated job.

cpach wrote:

I want to do some applications that are fun but all of them on the web are either hello world or a console app that a teacher would use for figuring out an average. I need the fun.

I would suggest checking out CodeProject.com.  They have a ton of samples in C++ and I'm sure some of them would be interesting.

I'd been programming C# for about 6 months and was at quite a sufficient standard, but about 5 weeks ago I decided that alot of the time I needed more power than C# could provide and decided to take the plunge and learn C++. And to be honest, I'm loving every minuite of.

Aswell as learning the language I've been reading an embedded system programming book by O'Reilly which is great. I think moving to C++ has been a great move for me. I find that the power of the language is really exciting. I'm defiantly thinking about ordering Arcom's Target188EB so I can put some of the books knowledge to good use.

I do agree though that for small PC based applications C# makes it a whole lot easier and more productive, and hense more a lot more fun.

PeterH wrote:

I'd been programming C# for about 6 months and was at quite a sufficient standard, but about 5 weeks ago I decided that alot of the time I needed more power than C# could provide and decided to take the plunge and learn C++. And to be honest, I'm loving every minuite of.

Aswell as learning the language I've been reading an embedded system programming book by O'Reilly which is great. I think moving to C++ has been a great move for me. I find that the power of the language is really exciting. I'm defiantly thinking about ordering Arcom's Target188EB so I can put some of the books knowledge to good use.

I do agree though that for small PC based applications C# makes it a whole lot easier and more productive, and hense more a lot more fun.

it's a good move,  6 months is enough long for such toy, i think C# is only good for small Web based applications.

leighsword wrote:

JChung2006 wrote: For me, the fun isn't about the languages; it's about the applications you're writing.

for me, the fun isn't about the applications or languages,  money makes it fun , money makes the earth goes round.

There's easier ways to make money, but considering that you're a C++ zealot, maybe you enjoy doing things the hard way, heh.

I enjoy programming because I enjoy solving problems.  The languages are only exciting inasmuch as they provide me with the tools to solve a problem.  Oddly enough, certain ways of solving a problem are more interesting than others.

Some things you learn about C++ may not strike you as fun initially, but I've found enjoyment in learning about the reasons that people had for designing a language (platform, protocol, etc...) the way they did.

Without curiousity and a healthy appetite for a challenge, you may not find application development to be very fun.