This threat's gonna cost Microsoft a whole country sometime

Microsoft: Windows May Be Pulled in Korea

I tend to find a lot if not most of these cases are pretty ridiculous, but Microsoft really tripped a landmine this time...

I'm sure it's just a threat but the damage is irreversible.

Honestly I'm disappointed.

I hope they do...after the EU fiasco and the revamped version of Windows not doing anything at all...then I hope they tell South Korea to kiss off. All it is really is a country chasing down a money trail.

I agree... it's pretty obvious that people are just hounding on Microsoft for easy money.

But the message Microsoft sent out is that Microsoft can at any time pull their services and products out of a country, and leave that whole nation in a huge telecom blackout.

Korea, China and Japan were already concerned enough about such a scenario that they've started making their own OS' (needless to say, Linux based). Microsoft's statement could induce enough fear to speed that up even more. Even if the nation doesn't act, the users will.

Microsoft has a duty to service every group in the world. To even suggest leaving a country out is fatal.

reinux wrote:

But the message Microsoft sent out is that Microsoft can at any time pull their services and products out of a country, and leave that whole nation in a huge telecom blackout.

If Microsoft pulls out of a country, all their exisiting windows installations stop functioning?

Detroit Muscle wrote:

reinux wrote: But the message Microsoft sent out is that Microsoft can at any time pull their services and products out of a country, and leave that whole nation in a huge telecom blackout.

If Microsoft pulls out of a country, all their exisiting windows installations stop functioning?

Physically impossible, with the exception of "Product Activation", Windows installations don't "phone-home".

The only way Microsoft can disrupt a country's Windows systems in a similar way is if they withdraw product support, but that's not an issue since there's plenty of MCSEs in Korea.

reinux wrote:

Microsoft has a duty to service every group in the world. To even suggest leaving a country out is fatal.

LOL oh really?  Where's Microsoft Outer Mongolia?  Microsoft Cuba?

The sky is not falling, Chicken Little...

Someone's in Redmond has a spreadsheet that looks like this:

X = Amount of money Korean goverment wants to extort from Microsoft

Y = Long-term projected Net Profit from Microsoft Korea

If X is greater than Y, guess what?  Maybe it's time to stop doing business in Korea.

If Microsoft is even threatening to pull out, it tells me that someone in the Korean government doesn't know how to use a spreadsheet.  ("Rets sue dem for... one trillrion dorrars!!!")

I would not say the damage is "irreversible" or even that there's BEEN damage.  Microsoft's stock went UP after they announced this.

Microsoft is a for-profit entity, not a charity.  It's not their job to sell Windows to anyone who wants it, at whatever price they want, in whatever brain-dead media-playerless configuration their governments arbitrarily demand.

That's not the point.

The point is that if Microsoft stops selling Windows in Korea, they will have no choice but to find other OS' to ship with their new computers. How else are they supposed to legitemately buy their software?

And if, like suggested in the article, Microsoft delays product releases in Korea, it'll have nearly the same effect as not shipping there in the first place.

And the bigger problem isn't the effect in itself. It's in the perception. Believe me, if a single nation is excluded from anything, even if it's not all that significant, people will be enraged.

Karim wrote:

reinux wrote: Microsoft has a duty to service every group in the world. To even suggest leaving a country out is fatal.

LOL oh really?  Where's Microsoft Outer Mongolia?  Microsoft Cuba?

The sky is not falling, Chicken Little...

Someone's in Redmond has a spreadsheet that looks like this:

X = Amount of money Korean goverment wants to extort from Microsoft

Y = Long-term projected Net Profit from Microsoft Korea

If X is greater than Y, guess what?  Maybe it's time to stop doing business in Korea.

Slight bias there, don't you think?

the SK Gvmt isn't there to extort Microsoft, its just levvying fines based on Microsoft's less-than-ethical business practices.

There's no point casting Microsoft as the victim, they're the guilty ones in this case, and now they're throwing a temper tantrum.

W3bbo wrote:

Slight bias there, don't you think?

the SK Gvmt isn't there to extort Microsoft, its just levvying fines based on Microsoft's less-than-ethical business practices.

There's no point casting Microsoft as the victim, they're the guilty ones in this case, and now they're throwing a temper tantrum.

W33bo....how's that version of Windows XP N Edition or whatever it is called running on your system?

Microsoft built a product. They are not preventing Firefox, or WinAMP, or AIM, or anything from running on it. You bought the OS the way it is...just like Beer and his printer scenario...who's fault is it.
What I think is happening is that everyone is learning about Linux and believing that everthing has options, (Well I want to use Firefox instead of Konquror (or Whatever)). Buy a car and tell the dealership that you want it to have a Hybrid engine in it when the manufacture doesn't have a model like that. What will they tell you?

<note to self>
Buy a car then sue the car company for not making it interoperable with other parts.
</note to self>

Point is the OS comes the way it is...you bought the product from the company the way it is. They are under NO obligation and NO fault at making it work the way it is DESIGNED to work. Screw the EU and any other country that things they (Microsoft) has to bow down and worship them.

Sorry for the rant I'm just tired of everyone attacking the biggest guy on the block because "we're the goverment".

reinux wrote:

The point is that if Microsoft stops selling Windows in Korea, they will have no choice but to find other OS' to ship with their new computers. How else are they supposed to legitemately buy their software?

I hear Apple and Red Hat sell fine operating systems.

If they still want to buy Windows, let them go to Amazon.com with everyone else and have it imported.

reinux wrote:

And the bigger problem isn't the effect in itself. It's in the perception. Believe me, if a single nation is excluded from anything, even if it's not all that significant, people will be enraged.

I could be wrong about this, but I'm assuming that Microsoft pulling out of Korea doesn't mean Koreans won't be able to buy Windows.  They'll just be like ANY OTHER COUNTRY where Microsoft doesn't have a subsidiary.  NOT EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS A MICROSOFT SUBSIDARY.  All it means is that Microsoft Corporation doesn't do business there, doesn't have offices, and is not liable to be sued for random billions of dollars by the Korean government.

Were you thinking that Microsoft was going to somehow keep South Koreans from buying Windows?  hahahaha.

Sounds to me like a great many of you (namely the Linux-heads in the room) need to read "The Capitalist Manifesto" and learn why Capitalism is the only system that brings prosperity to each and every person that wishes to work under it and why any initiation of force, no matter the rational, "the greater good" or otherwise, is an evil concept that only leads to destruction.

To Microsoft I say "bravo"!  My only question is why didn't you do this with the EU? And the United States before?  The only rational and indeed moral solution to greatness enslaved under the yoke of socialism is to simply do nothing.  It is more than time that Atlas Shrugged.

W3bbo wrote:

the SK Gvmt isn't there to extort Microsoft, its just levvying fines based on Microsoft's less-than-ethical business practices.

There's no point casting Microsoft as the victim, they're the guilty ones in this case, and now they're throwing a temper tantrum.

Really?  So you know they're guilty?  Do tell.  What are they guilty of?  Including a media player with Windows?

And they deserved to be fined how many billions of dollars for that horrific crime against humanity?

Temper tantrum?  Yeah, I'm sure someone in Redmond is ticked, but you know what?   At the end of the day, it's just business.  Microsoft has to be accountable to their shareholders across the planet, not just to the whims of one government.

Karim wrote:

reinux wrote: The point is that if Microsoft stops selling Windows in Korea, they will have no choice but to find other OS' to ship with their new computers. How else are they supposed to legitemately buy their software?

I hear Apple and Red Hat sell fine operating systems.

If they still want to buy Windows, let them go to Amazon.com with everyone else and have it imported.

reinux wrote: And the bigger problem isn't the effect in itself. It's in the perception. Believe me, if a single nation is excluded from anything, even if it's not all that significant, people will be enraged.

I could be wrong about this, but I'm assuming that Microsoft pulling out of Korea doesn't mean Koreans won't be able to buy Windows.  They'll just be like ANY OTHER COUNTRY where Microsoft doesn't have a subsidiary.  NOT EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS A MICROSOFT SUBSIDARY.  All it means is that Microsoft Corporation doesn't do business there, doesn't have offices, and is not liable to be sued for random billions of dollars by the Korean government.

Were you thinking that Microsoft was going to somehow keep South Koreans from buying Windows?  hahahaha.

Cut the arrogant streaks will you? If you think I'm a retard that's your problem but at least be polite please.

If that happened, "it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea," the company said in the filing.

How many countries in the world speak Korean? Only Korea and North Korea. The situation wouldn't be as bad as if it were a case with Japan (since Japan is the only Japanese speaking nation in the world), but the fact is that if there is no Korean version of Windows, Koreans will not use it. And it would make absolutely no sense for Microsoft to make a Korean version of Windows if they don't sell in Korea.

So yes, Koreans need Korean Windows, and, if there is none, they won't buy Windows.

And if I as a developer learn one day that there'll be no future generations of Windows for my customers, I'll immediately go to search for alternatives. Hell, I might even act the moment I hear that that sort of thing might happen.

reinux wrote:

And if I as a developer learn one day that there'll be no future generations of Windows for my customers, I'll immediately go to search for alternatives. Hell, I might even act the moment I hear that that sort of thing might happen.

I hear Apple and Red Hat sell fine operating systems.

reinux wrote:

Cut the arrogant streaks will you? If you think I'm a retard that's your problem but at least be polite please.

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to make you feel stupid.  My apologies.

reinux wrote:

How many countries in the world speak Korean? Only Korea and North Korea. The situation wouldn't be as bad as if it were a case with Japan (since Japan is the only Japanese speaking nation in the world), but the fact is that if there is no Korean version of Windows, Koreans will not use it. And it would make absolutely no sense for Microsoft to make a Korean version of Windows if they don't sell in Korea.

So yes, Koreans need Korean Windows, and, if there is none, they won't buy Windows.

Well, again, Korea is not a special case here, last time I checked there was no version of Windows in Swahili, and there was no Microsoft Tanzania subsidiary.  (Much to the chagrin of Obane Ubludi.)  Microsoft doesn't make Windows in all languages, and it doesn't have subsidiaries in all countries.

Again, it comes down to economics.  No company wants to run at a loss, or have their subsidiaries run at a loss.  That's a good way to go bankrupt.  Put yourself in Microsoft's shoes (as it were) for a minute.  I don't know what the actual dollar amounts are, but let's say (for the sake of argument), you are making $250 million dollars a year from Microsoft CH (Korea), and the Korean government announces that they are going to fine you $1 billion per year for each year that you sell products that include a media player.  Do the math!  You are making $250 million and spending $1 billion.  Hard to stay in business doing that!  The cost of doing business is too high.

I suppose they could still make and sell a Korean version of Windows without actually having a Korean subsidiary.  But there are localization costs for doing Windows (and Office, and everything else Microsoft) in a specific language too.  Just like someone did the math on Swahili and said, "We're not going to sell enough copies of Office 2003 Swahili to Obane and his friends to pay for the localization costs," someone might do the same math with the Korean language & come up with the same answer.

Again, it's just business.  I don't think Microsoft Corp. is very good at vendettas.  Their preferred mode of operation, up until now anyway, has been to take out their magic checkbook and ask, "Ok, how much do you want to settle this?"  So for them to say, "You know, the checkbook might not work this time, we might just have to pull up stakes and leave," you KNOW someone is seriously trying to d--k them over.

Users online in 2000:

http://kartoweb.itc.nl/webcartography/webbook/ch04/images/wbwfig4-3v1.gif

IIRC, Microsoft Japan accouts for a third of Microsoft's earnings. South Korea has more than half as many Internet users as Japan. I don't think you can say dropping Korea is as safe as continuing not to localize for Tanzania or the other Swahili nations.

Not to mention that there's a difference between never supporting a group and supporting them to the point of reliance and then suddenly suggesting to cut them off.

reinux wrote:

IIRC, Microsoft Japan accouts for a third of Microsoft's earnings. South Korea has more than half as many Internet users as Japan. I don't think you can say dropping Korea is as safe as continuing not to localize for Tanzania or the other Swahili nations.

Not to mention that there's a difference between never supporting a group and supporting them to the point of reliance and then suddenly suggesting to cut them off.

The number of users is really almost irrelevant -- I would think it just comes down to the cost of doing business.  For me, Microsoft's threat to pull out of Korea simply suggests that the fine could be larger than the profit, and thus turn the whole country into a money-LOSING proposition.  Losing money is still losing money, whether it's 5 people or 50 million people.

Good point about there being a difference between never supporting a country/language and withdrawing support.  I don't think this is something Microsoft would do without a great deal of consideration.  There are obviously folks who work for Microsoft Korea, and they'd all be out of a job; all the assets would have to be liquidated, etc. and there are not insignificant costs associated with all this.   It would be a complicated and costly undertaking.  That's another reason I don't see this as petulance on the part of Microsoft -- it would cost them to pull out of the country.  The question is really whether it would cost them even more to stay.

I was stationed in Korea for a year. The businesses are really the only ones who need Microsoft to stay around.

After the economy crashed in SK everyone is basically too poor to buy a computer except for the companies there and the "Internet Gaming places" (places with 100+ computers where for $1.00 an hour you can go play Warcraft, Starcraft, Craftcraft, etc till you die). Besides that the normal home doesn't have a computer really because it cost too much.

However those companies are huge...Daewoo, Samsung, and a few others...you know...the ones that help Iraq and that whole food for oil deal...