Microsoft takes down Chinese blogger

Facts:

Original RConversation  post.

Robert Scoble's response.

The blog in question is http://spaces.msn.com/members/mranti/


My Opinion:

I'm not at all happy about this.

The right to free speech is one I hold dear. It is the simplest of things that helps define our freedom that our fore-fathers fought so hard to give us. This struggle is still going on today and we should support those who do so. So others can hope to gain the same freedoms as we enjoy.

Obvious words can be used as weapons and can hurt and harm so a balance needs to be stuck.

However I would like to strongly urge MSN to reevaluate their decision in this matter as this simple act could easily jeopardise the work that some individuals at Microsoft have tried so hard to fight against and place Microsoft in a 'less evil' light.

I feel let down by this appalling episode.

Me too, but it's a complicated issue. We need to uphold the local laws of the countries we do business in.

For instance, in our country, child pornography is illegal so MSN Spaces pulls that down, when found here.

China has laws that I don't agree with, but if we want to do business there we've gotta follow their laws.

So, that leaves a few choices. Pull out? What happens then? No blogs get published at all and everyone loses any voice they have.

It's not an easy choice to make, that's for sure. I'm sure glad I'm not sitting in that chair this morning.

MS is a corporation and should not be in the business of spreading "freedom". I have no problems with MSN respecting the laws of China and censoring blogs.

This entire story is conjecture at the moment, really.  There's a hell of a lot of accusations with little to back it up.  Has anyone even got anyone from MSN to actually say they did this?

All we've got at the moment is a lot of people demanding MSN imposes Western laws and morality on Chinese citizens, faux outrage and that most middle class example of protest:  "if there was a petition, I'd sign it".

harumscarum wrote:

MS is a corporation and should not be in the business of spreading "freedom". I have no problems with MSN respecting the laws of China and censoring blogs.

Freedom isn't cheap. Laws are necessity.

Who should I thank for not being born in China?

On the fence about this, on 1 hand I really want Microsoft to just stick their middle finger up at China and do it anyway.

But then again, MSN is not above a countries laws. And just as Scoble said, they have laws that they have to abide by in Europe/America we don't go making massive blog posts about "suppressing our freedoms"

Conclusion, Microsoft are not above a countries laws, so if the host countries laws say that it should be taken down, the blog should be taken down.

If America want's to spread freedom, why don't they ask George Dubya todo it the Iraq way?

Actually I think the answer is simple.

Governments must adapt to change.

Trying to control the Internet is like herding cats or controlling the wind.

Microsoft could assist China in taking this step forward.

Microsoft whether it likes it or not is a global partner and is more than a vehicle for making profit specially when actual lives are effected.

I'm sure Bill Gates understands that, or what was that speech at Live 8 all about?

China can no longer by like King Knute, the tide of change is now upon them.

China has gone so far now, it is time for them to take another step, they may not like it, but it is tough love.

It's time for Microsoft to decide where it wants to be today?

That's simple, it wants to be in the fastest growing market in the world.

Microsoft = a company, not some kind of political party.

BenZilla wrote:

That's simple, it wants to be in the fastest growing market in the world.

Microsoft = a company, not some kind of political party.

Microsoft is breaking new ground every day.

Some days it's just going to be more difficult than others.

Microsoft isn't a company. It's to big and it has responsibilities now.

Sabot wrote:

It is the simplest of things that helps define our freedom that our fore-fathers fought so hard to give us.

Aren't you british ? ...

Manip wrote:

Sabot wrote:It is the simplest of things that helps define our freedom that our fore-fathers fought so hard to give us.

Aren't you british ? ...

I think he's refering to those lost in World War 2, fighting fascism (the National Socalist government didn't have 'human rights' high on their agenda).

As for the USA, the stories I hear about the reasons for the country being formed change every time I hear them; Right now I'm convinced the country was founded for tax reasons, the 'constitutional freedom of speech' was just a by-product, and the USA only helped in the fight against the National Socalists because they were allies with Japan.

Well, as we discussed a few months ago, Yahoo! actually helped send a Chinese journalist to prison for 10 years.

Which kind of makes having your blog taken down look like being sent to bed without your supper.

To subvert from within, you gotta pick your battles.

Cider wrote:

This entire story is conjecture at the moment, really.  There's a hell of a lot of accusations with little to back it up.  Has anyone even got anyone from MSN to actually say they did this?
".

Nope, not yet. But they haven't denied it yet, either. Since the decision maker is over in China, we'll have to wait to see what happens.

I think everyone needs to cool down until the real facts are established.

So far we know that MSN obviously, has to operate within the laws of the country it is operating in.

If we assume they did silence this blogger, what was he or she writing about?

You need context, if there were people in the US jotting down plans to blow up the White House or overthrow the government do you think MSN wouldn't shut them down when the police come knocking?

Good for MSN.

I think it's ethically wrong for international countries to flout the laws and regulations of countries they do business in.

If the USA required countries headquartered here to promote "freedom," right to speech, etc, it would be perfectly fair for the Chinese government to do exactly the same thing.

There is no difference between a USA refusing to take down a Chinese blogger and a Chinese company removing an anti-Chinese journalist who lives in Seattle. If the company is international enough, they could be doing both....

I have no patience for hypocrisy.

If you got business with the evil government, you definely will understand what situation MS was, whatever, the hard decision is understandable.
there is a top joke about law in China: Which statement Chinese law-officer used to say, 'becuase there no relative laws in China, so...'.(China has a poor law system)

PS: the evil government is not point to Chinese government, maybe North Korean government, who know?

As far as I know, China has made a law about a year ago that enforces ISPs to filter their DNS server and remove the record of certain site (I think this is to cope with the "news control", sort of "travellers can't bring certain brands of newspaper across customs of China") (Another point to note, for this reason I think, certain dynamic DNS won't work in China)

If MSN don't want their site on the list, they have to attend to the request of the government, or take the risk that all chinese users live in China cannot blog there.

leighsword wrote:

PS: the evil government is not point to Chinese government, maybe North Korean government, who know?

Leighsword...you live in China right?

A chinese bloggers blog was pulled and you talk about an evil goverment...but mention North Korea? Why?

THIS to me is an obvious form of govermental fear.