Civil War in Iraq?

Well, I don't know how much closer they are going to get to it, but this might push everything completely over the edge...

 

Shrine Blown Up In Iraq

BBC wrote:

Tens of thousands of people have staged protests across Iraq after a bomb attack heavily damaged one of the holiest sites in Shia Islam.

Dozens of Sunni mosques are reported to have been targeted and six Sunnis killed after a gang blew up the dome of the al-Askari shrine in Samarra.

Edit: More...Fox News Article...

FOXNews wrote:

Tradition says the Askariya shrine, which draws Shiite pilgrims from throughout the Islamic world, is near the place where the last of the 12 Shiite imams, Mohammed al-Mahdi, disappeared. Al-Mahdi, known as the "hidden imam," was the son and grandson of the two imams buried in the Askariya shrine.

Shiites believe he is still alive and will return to restore justice to humanity. An attack at such an important religious shrine would constitute a grave assault on Shiite Islam at a time of rising sectarian tensions in Iraq.

The shrine contains the tombs of the 10th and 11th imams, Ali al-Hadi, who died in 868 A.D., and his son Hassan al-Askari, who died in 874 A.D. and was the father of the hidden imam.

The whole "return of the hidden imam" bit is something the leader of Iran is saying that he wants to bring about, if you remember.

That's the problem with trying to fix a society which is still based on tribal beliefs. Tribalism and a democratic republic just won't work.

Same kind of thing happend(the changing of civilizations) when the Christians tried to "civilize" African tribes. African tribes were migratory, and have been since the beginning of their existence. Now they have to sit in one place with no food/water and we're wondering why their starving. They used to migrate to their food and water.

Iraq needs the U.S. out and a full U.N. contingency in it's place, period. It will take a few hundred thousand troops, but it needs to be done. I woundn't want my Canadian troops in this U.S. mess, but I'd be honoured if we were to help stabilize a country that needs our help, which we've done many times in the past. Hell I think we're still in Cypress keeping the peace

I hate to say it, but I think a lot of the flak Saddam Hussein takes for "killing his own people" is part-and-parcel of civil war.

No-one gives Abraham Lincoln flak for "killing his own people" anymore (though he got a lot of it at the time.)

I'm not defending Saddam, just trying to point out that he's not the only source of Iraq's problems.

Lovely mess you've made of things, Mr. President.

Civil War is healthy.  Everyone needs a good Civil War.

ScanIAm wrote:

Lovely mess you've made of things, Mr. President.

For once I agree with the right-wing 'preachers' in the Bible-belt: The USA needs to deploy waaaay more troops into Iraq if they want to stablise the region, as well as a massive UN peacekeeping mission.

Only next time they should train their troops on how to 'be nice to the locals', rather than going in all gung-ho.

W3bbo wrote:

as well as a massive UN peacekeeping mission.

The Dutch will go, but only if there's no danger.

W3bbo wrote:

Only next time they should train their troops on how to 'be nice to the locals', rather than going in all gung-ho.

Kind of on this topic is why I don't like airstrikes. If you think someone is there, send in your ultra-special forces. 1 in 10 times they actually get a hit on someone they were targeting, all the other times it's usually where 20 kids get killed because it was actually a birthday party going on.

If you see enemy forces down below, bomb them. If you think Person X is in a building, send people in as fast as you can. SEALs have better precision that a SMART bomb.

Sven Groot wrote:

W3bbo wrote:as well as a massive UN peacekeeping mission.

The Dutch will go, but only if there's no danger.

Back to the original point of Civil war...

How feasible would a civil war between Shiites and Sunnis be?

In all the civil-wars I've seen it's all been between clearly defined factions, surely the majority of Iraqis are against any kind of internal strife, even the religious leaders on both sides are calling for peace.

Let's just hope this doesn't lead to the foretellings of the Book of Revelation to come true (oo-er!) (but not that I fall of Jack Chick's propaganda either)

I say let em fight it out, and then the US go in there pick up the peices and then establish a democratic government.

W3bbo wrote:

ScanIAm wrote: Lovely mess you've made of things, Mr. President.

For once I agree with the right-wing 'preachers' in the Bible-belt: The USA needs to deploy waaaay more troops into Iraq if they want to stablise the region, as well as a massive UN peacekeeping mission.

Only next time they should train their troops on how to 'be nice to the locals', rather than going in all gung-ho.

rjdohnert wrote:

I say let em fight it out, and then the US go in there pick up the peices and then establish a democratic government.

Did we need to be there in the first place?

YES!!!!!

rjdohnert wrote: I say let em fight it out, and then the US go in there pick up the peices and then establish a democratic government.

Did we need to be there in the first place?

rjdohnert wrote:

YES!!!!!

Glad you put that fifth exclamation point.  With only four, I would have been tempted to question your logic, but that fifth one really convinced me.

W3bbo wrote:

Only next time they should train their troops on how to 'be nice to the locals', rather than going in all gung-ho.

Who says they don't?

CannotResolveSymbol wrote:

W3bbo wrote: Only next time they should train their troops on how to 'be nice to the locals', rather than going in all gung-ho.

Who says they don't?

The Independent has made a few articles comparing US Troop behaviour Vs. British, making frequent references to the "less agressive" stance our guys play in Basra, sometimes even going without helmets (instead, with berets). I don't have any actual links handy though, especially since these were articles in the newspaper.

Right now every man, woman and child is deemed a threat.  Nice goes out the window.  Be curteous but be forceful.

rjdohnert wrote:

Right now every man, woman and child is deemed a threat.  Nice goes out the window.  Be curteous but be forceful.

Or, maybe, how about "be somewhere else".

Q: Civil War in Iraq?

A: duh!