Microsoft needs to quit stalling

Microsoft is taking too much time to release software.  Look at Windows Defender, still in Beta.  When did they aquire Giant?  2 yrs ago.  IE 7 was announced over a year ago and its still in Beta.  Windows Vista was so delayed its not even funny.   With your competitors releasing sooner than Microsoft you guys better get on the ball.  After all its software, not rocket science.

rjdohnert wrote:

Microsoft is taking too much time to release software.  Look at Windows Defender, still in Beta.  When did they aquire Giant?  2 yrs ago.  IE 7 was announced over a year ago and its still in Beta.  Windows Vista was so delayed its not even funny.

Uhh how long was Firefox in beta? GMail? Windows XP?

Believe it or not but software takes time. In fact Microsoft have been stalling LESS not MORE... They are releasing public betas much earlier in the production process (e.g. IE7) than they have before.

I don't follow how buying Giant 2 years ago has any relation to when a final and or beta product is shipped. If you had been paying attention you would know that Microsoft is re-writing large amounts of the giant codebase, it isn't a new product but it is the equivelent of XP to 2k3.

rjdohnert wrote:

  After all its software, not rocket science.

As has been mentioned already software takes time.  True there are extremely long delays on a software product on occasion which should be criticized.  Perhaps these is one of these cases but don't use the argument "After all its software, not rocket science".  That might imply that creating software is somehow less diffcult than rocket science.

rjdohnert wrote:   After all its software, not rocket science.

Most rocket science these days is done in software

The examples you site are all PC software. I find the reason most PC software projects are delayed (this isn't just an MS problem) is because the lowest quality developers migrate towards PC development. I'm sure you will find better results by looking at MS's software teams in their mobile and embedded divisions.

And look at games. Even they take 2..3..5 years to create.

ahh Duke Nukem Forever.

rjdohnert wrote:

Microsoft is taking too much time to release software.  Look at Windows Defender, still in Beta.  When did they aquire Giant?  2 yrs ago.  IE 7 was announced over a year ago and its still in Beta.  Windows Vista was so delayed its not even funny.   With your competitors releasing sooner than Microsoft you guys better get on the ball.  After all its software, not rocket science.

Serious, what shall i say?
Duke Nukem Forever?
Team Fortress 2?
Google Mail?
Starcraft Ghost?
Shall i go on?

Microsoft, as i see it, is beginning to do a VERY nice job on viewing work-in-progess software, and make software like the crowd wants it.

You example about IE7, is just lame, to be honest.
I would never believe that the guys would make it in a that short time. And i think the result is smashing. I dropped ff to do IE 7.

The thing about Vista is somewhat true. But you know, it was such a shame that it happend.
Dont let your life being ruined by this.  Unexcepted things happens.

Dude, DNF and TF2 are probably two of the most stupid arguments ever.

If memory serves, they purchased Giant in December 2004, which was only about 13 months ago. Keep in mind they basically rewrote it from scratch. Originally, it was written in VB/Classic, but the team rewrote it in C++. Plus now it runs as a service and is integrated with Microsoft Update. It's clear the engineering effort has been nontrivial--certainly more than just a simple rebranding.

I'd certainly like to see more come out of Microsoft faster--I can't wait for WMP11 for XP, for example--but the simple reality is that they're working to the best of their abilities. Yes, they're running late, but throughout all the delays they have made tremendous progress in making the development process more transparent and responsive to the community. Think of how many public betas and CTPs are currently available--it's without precedent from Microsoft or any other corporation in the software industry. Given the tradeoffs, I'm content with the current pace.

One of these things ("bought Giant, written in VB") is not like the other ("rewrote from scratch, C++").

?!?! Why even buy Giant, then?

Honestly: Google Groups was in beta longer than DejaNews even existed for God's sake.

Stuff ships when it ships, be it code or market requirements.

Do you want it done FAST, or do you want it done PROPERLY?  Good software takes time, even for a company with Microsoft's resources. 
It's not even a question of hiring more developers, or assigning more people to a project.  You can't make a baby in one month by putting 9 women on the job.

Cairo wrote:

?!?! Why even buy Giant, then?

The database of spyware, SpyNet network and experience all have value over and above the actual application (which was dog ugly and not very well written, to be honest)

Ha, not rocket science... One unmanned rocket misses the target and maybe your boss gets mad.

1 bad IE release and 100 million people are upset. I think you extremely underestimate the complexity of 7.0 software.

RandyRants wrote:

Honestly: Google Groups was in beta longer than DejaNews even existed for God's sake.

I fail to see why what Google does has anything to do with Microsoft's approach to anything.  Calling half-finished software Beta just so you can release it is lame - not something Microsoft should be emulating.

With regards to Vista, I'd rather they release a highly-polished operating system a year and a half late than a buggy, inconsistent, and likely to crash often operating system on time, only to be forced to wait for a year and a half more for service packs that render the system stable.

Software development is a very involved task, one that is almost impossible to predict accurately, even for the pros like Microsoft.

rjdohnert wrote:

Microsoft is taking too much time to release software.  Look at Windows Defender, still in Beta.  When did they aquire Giant?  2 yrs ago.  IE 7 was announced over a year ago and its still in Beta.  Windows Vista was so delayed its not even funny.  

As BryanF points out, they acquired Giant in December 2004, not 2 years ago:

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/dec04/12-16GIANTPR.mspx

IE 7 -- well, given the track record of vulnerabilities in IE 6, I'd just as soon they take their time.  Thought it would have been nice to have a public beta sooner.  The "preview" of IE 7 beta 2 has turned out to be faster on my machine and more solid than most of their competitor's released products.

I agree with you about Windows Vista, only because Microsoft had previously come out with major new OS releases about every 2-3 years, and it has been twice that now since Windows XP shipped.  But Vista is a special case, as they had a "do over" about halfway through

http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/47865/47865.html

When Allchin said "It's not going to work" and they changed the way they write operating systems, it was a huge accomplishment, it kept Vista from being a bomb, and it has positioned Microsoft to be able to write better quality software well into the future.  Unfortunately it also apparently involved scrapping a lot of work and starting over.

Two of the pieces of software you mentioned Microsoft has to get absolutely right: IE 7 and Vista.  The other, they only started on it about a year ago, they rewrote it, and they have released multiple public betas that work great.  I'd rather see them continue to release quality products rather than have them emulate Google.  Google Video got released before it was even half-baked; Google got trashed in the press about it and had to issue refunds and apologize.