Looks like the change of leadership at Sun is
a good thing. I wonder if this will help stop the 'alleged' decline in Java use? I say alleged because it appears Java was always more popular in Europe than the US and there still seem to be plenty of Java jobs about over here.
Of course, you can already get the source for a non-production ready runtime for .Net from Microsoft
here.
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Rossj wrote:Looks like the change of leadership at Sun is a good thing. I wonder if this will help stop the 'alleged' decline in Java use? I say alleged because it appears Java was always more popular in Europe than the US and there still seem to be plenty of Java jobs about over here.
Some Linux/OpenSolaris distros offers the packets already:
Ubuntu Dapper
"
~$ apt-cache search sun-java5
sun-java5-bin - Sun Java(TM) Runtime Environment (JRE) 5.0
sun-java5-demo - Sun Java(TM) Development Kit (JDK) 5.0 demos and examples
sun-java5-doc - Sun JDK(TM) Documention -- integration installer
sun-java5-fonts - Lucida TrueType fonts (from the Sun JRE)
sun-java5-jdk - Sun Java(TM) Development Kit (JDK) 5.0
sun-java5-jre - Sun Java(TM) Runtime Environment (JRE) 5.0
sun-java5-plugin - The Java(TM) Plug-in, Java SE 5.0
sun-java5-source - Sun Java(TM) Development Kit (JDK) 5.0 source files
"
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rjdohnert
You will never know success until you know failure
Not a very good idea but its their code. Well, when the time comes that we have to download 10 different runtimes because each implementation is different than Sun will know it wasnt a good idea. Oh and I assume we will see Microsoft Java resurface.
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rjdohnert
You will never know success until you know failure
No it hasnt improved blatz. My feeling on this is that Sun did this just to appease the purists who wanted Java open. There is nothing technologically that can be achieved by open source Java. Its probably going under the GPL because Linux developers have said in the past that the Sun CDDL is not compatible with the GPL and no CDDL code can be used in Linux.
blatzcoder wrote:Did anybody ever invest any time in learning J#? I did not, and I can't imagine it ever gets much use. I hope they don't prop that product up in order to counter this. I hate to say this, but even if Sun open sources Java, part of me could really care less. I think my complaint with the Java language is performance in general...has that changed? -
rjdohnert wrote:Its probably going under the GPL because Linux developers have said in the past that the Sun CDDL is not compatible with the GPL and no CDDL code can be used in Linux.
It's under new DLJ license.
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DCMonkey
What?!?
Putting Java under the GPL would be commercial suicide as it would require all code using its libraries to also be GPLd.
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blatzcoder wrote:Did anybody ever invest any time in learning J#? I did not, and I can't imagine it ever gets much use. I hope they don't prop that product up in order to counter this. I hate to say this, but even if Sun open sources Java, part of me could really care less. I think my complaint with the Java language is performance in general...has that changed?
J# isn't worth the sectors it is written to... It doesn't support enough of the Java framework to make it worth while... The last time I wanted to port a Java application I tried to use J# but in the end it was quicker to just write it completely from scratch in C#. -
Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me
I think Sun knows that once Vista ships, WinFX will become the platform of choice for Windows development. So they are hoping to capture the OSS world to help counter balence their loss on the Windows platform?
Regards,
Vincent -
Xaero_Vincent wrote:I think Sun knows that once Vista ships, WinFX will become the platform of choice for Windows development. So they are hoping to capture the OSS world to help counter balence their loss on the Windows platform?
Honestly I don't think Sun are thinking that... Most of the people that will use WinFX in the future are using Win32 today... If you look at the industry today I think Sun has a lot more mark loss against the .Net framework than they have had to Win32 (or WinFX in the future).
Java and .Net are both RAD enviroments... One is cross-platform, and one isn't. One has a brilliant development enviroment, with modern compiler and the other has an awful compiler and no decent development enviroment.
Java is loosing market share and open sourcing the product will not stop or slow that.
I could be optimistic and say that the OpenSource community could fix all of Java's problems but ironically Java's problems are shared by most popular open source projects around today. -
Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me
While I dont develop in Java. I think Java's fault is it's age, backwards compatability and API deprecation. Backwards compatability prohibits the ability to fix major design flaws and remove obsolete routines and classes from the libraries, because of the risk of breaking older apps.
This same sort of thing can plague .NET languages as well and given time it probably will. The good news though is Microsoft will most likely roll out a completely new developer platform before this could impose serious consequences.
Regards,
Vincent -
Sun lost with Java when they decided not to play with Microsoft. All they had the do was thrash out a way to allow Java to call native code (which they ended up doing with JNI eventually anyway) and they'd have had their runtime shipping on every OS that counted.
The move to open source is clearly an indication (as it often is) that Sun are becoming less keen to invest hard cash in continuing Java development. With the JVM well and truly out as far as Microsoft are concerned and Apple having shifted their position such that Java is no longer considered a first class citizen in the Mac world, one has to wonder how much life is left in it. -
Another_Darren
... than you can shake a stick at
'Alleged' decline? Nothing alleged about it, it is!
We ditched Java at work, IBM have stopped trying to sell it to us. In fact IBM have started backing PHP and dumping code/tools for PHP into public domain, they even have partnership with Zend. In the industry mags the Java word is quite rare now, in fact I'll be the first to admit I see .Net mentioned more in it's place.
As for opening it up? I think decline is the key word here, and Sun will talk all about how they will open it up. And years later they will still be working with the open source guys, IBM, BEA, etc issues with releasing the code. It's just talk to get the Java world back into the media for attention.
Java became so big it became bloat code. IBM even have a piece on developWorks comparing java code to PHP to show that less lines of code PHP has to do the same job as JSP!
Final proof Java is dying. Ross! Ex-Java developer who would rather take a .NET job over Java
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Java 1.6 (Mustang) is targeted to released in fall 2006.
Anyone tried beta2 yet? -
Sabot
My name is Dave Oliver. I'm a Technical Architect.
Another_Darren wrote:'Alleged' decline? Nothing alleged about it, it is!
We ditched Java at work, IBM have stopped trying to sell it to us. In fact IBM have started backing PHP and dumping code/tools for PHP into public domain, they even have partnership with Zend. In the industry mags the Java word is quite rare now, in fact I'll be the first to admit I see .Net mentioned more in it's place.
As for opening it up? I think decline is the key word here, and Sun will talk all about how they will open it up. And years later they will still be working with the open source guys, IBM, BEA, etc issues with releasing the code. It's just talk to get the Java world back into the media for attention.
Java became so big it became bloat code. IBM even have a piece on developWorks comparing java code to PHP to show that less lines of code PHP has to do the same job as JSP!
Final proof Java is dying. Ross! Ex-Java developer who would rather take a .NET job over Java
I can actually shred some light on this ...
BEA Systems, IBM, IONA, Oracle, SAP AG, Siebel Systems and Sybase are all developing together an alternative to J2EE that uses other languages other than just Java, PHP being one of them.
This alternative is called SCA.
SCA is being pitched as a real credible competitor to .Net
P.S. Notice that Sun isn't in the group developing SCA.
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Tensor
Im in yr house upgrading yr family
Sabot wrote:SCA is being pitched as a real credible competitor to .Net
But does it wear a pork-pie hat and have a funky two-tone rythm? -
rjdohnert
You will never know success until you know failure
I have, its still slow.
Erisan wrote: -
rjdohnert wrote:I have, its still slow.
Erisan wrote:Java 1.6 (Mustang) is targeted to released in fall 2006.
Anyone tried beta2 yet?
Agreed. Just tried it and actually I didn't notice any speed up on Java-software which I tried (Hattrick organizer). Needs much more testing though.
Although it has some nice improvements. AA fonts and GTK+ support which makes softwares good looking and sits well on Gnome desktop.
But should Gnome community start to prefer Java on Gnome ... ? No!
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Sabot wrote:
I can actually shred some light on this ...
BEA Systems, IBM, IONA, Oracle, SAP AG, Siebel Systems and Sybase are all developing together an alternative to J2EE that uses other languages other than just Java, PHP being one of them.
This alternative is called SCA.
SCA is being pitched as a real credible competitor to .Net
P.S. Notice that Sun isn't in the group developing SCA.
Cool, I am seeing Darren tonight, will point him at this thread if he doesn't see the bump, although I believe he is tentatively going the .Net route atm.
Another_Darren wrote:
Final proof Java is dying. Ross! Ex-Java developer who would rather take a .NET job over Java
Everyone is an ex-Java developer these days, been 4 years now that I've been on the wagon
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