You might be a victim

Ok, well it finally happened. My Laptop installation just went "Pfffft" in my face and I needed to reinstall. Asking where my XP Home CD was my daughter brought it to me looking like it had been used as a frisbee (Probably had) and that was that..."Press any key to boot from CD or DVD was the furthest I ever got...but alas I grabbed one of my *gulp* pirated versions of XP and the CD Key I had to go with it.

Disclaimer: I know I shoulda made back ups, I know I should have made copies, whatever.

Anyways about 20 minutes later my laptop boots up into the new XP Pro installation (OEM was XP Home). Download some updates and *BAM*

"You might be a victim of software counterfiting"

Yeah I know...but really how bad is it? It gives me and option on how often to be shown I select NONE (or never, whatever it is). There is an application out there to kill the .dll or whatever WGA uses...AND to top it all off...I had a little star in the bottom right hand corner...well did.




Always hide, and good to go. NOW....

Had Microsoft allowed XP Home CD Keys to work with XP Pro I'd be good (I have my OEM CD Key), had HP allowed CD request (or Microsoft) using online methods...I could have gotten another XPHome CD (I didn't buy the year warrenty for my laptop for an additional $200 to get phone support)...and yes (Had I made a CD Backup) I could have saved myself here...anyways.

W33bo, Jamie, Me, and half the Internet....

HATES WGA

Why can't legit users get treated like legit users instead of like the pirates in Korea selling WindowsXP for 5 dollars (That's where I first got Windows 2000 RC3)? Eventually I'm thinking between Vista, O2007, and Visual Studio people will migrate off of Windows because of the compatibility that Linux/MacOSX will have built in to be compatible.

Theory:
1) Windows keeps everything proprietary
2) MacOSX and Linux build software to be compatibile/sue for open standards (antiTrust).
3) Microsoft charges $300 for Vista in addition to having to have a server to run it.
4) World tells Microsoft to F off and starts moving over to Linux (stays with Mac - Upgrades).
5) Microsoft pulls an AOL, eats 5 Billion dollars and gives the next Vienna away for free, making 10 SKUs to cover every OS/Server type.
6) OS Wars start over again
7) GOTO 1

sorry everyone....I'm not complaining about the idea behind WGA, just the fact that it exist. I'm also not seeking validity into my having to do this, just stating, for the people who are legit, it's near impossible to survive, for the people who aren't there are ways around it. The minute there are no ways around it, Microsoft will get sued for it.

I can't wait for the next Vista build to come out...I hate not being "legit"
</rant>

If that's your reason for hating WGA...

you are really stretching it.

LaBomba wrote:

If that's your reason for hating WGA...

you are really stretching it.

How so, I mean think about it...how many people lose media, need new media, etc? And maybe I am stretching it because that's the only way it really affects me. I dunno...it just makes me upset that I have to circumvent the system to get my laptop back...

Or Chris's method.

I'd call them up and see what they will do over the phone.
I've done that before.
Online you might even be able to settle the matter.
I think I've done this fairly recently.
I don't routinely reformat my media, I think that's unnecessary, but I've felt stranded with re-installation. A phone call or online appeal has settled the matter each time.

Hmmm .... HP always creates a seperate-hidden partition that contains the windows xp (whatever installation you have ) pro / home contents on it ....

All you got to do is find it with a partition merger or some tool like that, it worked for me without having to buy the 200 dollar s&&&it they offer.

Steve411 wrote:

Hmmm .... HP always creates a seperate-hidden partition that contains the windows xp (whatever installation you have ) pro / home contents on it ....

All you got to do is find it with a partition merger or some tool like that, it worked for me without having to buy the 200 dollar s&&&it they offer.

Nope...FLAT out hard drive... no hidden partitions on it.

Got done talking with HP on the phone.... for $48.00 and $6.00 shipping I can have a new CD... :-\ or just wait till the new Vista beta and deal with that.

Cybermagellan wrote:

 I dunno...it just makes me upset that I have to circumvent the system to get my laptop back...

I think a relatively good analogy here would be a car alarm. The insurance company forces you to put one in even against your will, but if you forget your alarm code, can you blame the alarm for not having an easy workaround?
You are, to continue the analogy, trying to hot-wire your computer.

I think the blame here lies with HP. They should make it easy to get replacement media. If you have WGA, the media itself becomes a lot less valuable without the corresponding legit key anyway.

Failing that, the simplest way is to torrent the proper SKU that you have a key for.

You could always install OS X.

Cybermagellan wrote:



Steve411 wrote:Hmmm .... HP always creates a seperate-hidden partition that contains the windows xp (whatever installation you have ) pro / home contents on it .... All you got to do is find it with a partition merger or some tool like that, it worked for me without having to buy the 200 dollar s&&&it they offer.

Nope...FLAT out hard drive... no hidden partitions on it.

Got done talking with HP on the phone.... for $48.00 and $6.00 shipping I can have a new CD... :-\ or just wait till the new Vista beta and deal with that.

Now if you had torrented XP Home, used your original OEM key and still got into trouble this would've made sense but as it stands... what did you expect really? You're installing a pirated version of XP Pro using a pirated key. I'd consider it a bug if it didn't notify you.

$48 for a new CD is rediculous though, I'll agree with that.

Yggdrasil wrote:



Cybermagellan wrote: I dunno...it just makes me upset that I have to circumvent the system to get my laptop back...

I think a relatively good analogy here would be a car alarm. The insurance company forces you to put one in even against your will, but if you forget your alarm code, can you blame the alarm for not having an easy workaround?
You are, to continue the analogy, trying to hot-wire your computer.

I think the blame here lies with HP. They should make it easy to get replacement media. If you have WGA, the media itself becomes a lot less valuable without the corresponding legit key anyway.

Failing that, the simplest way is to torrent the proper SKU that you have a key for.

I don't really think your analogy quite fits. My insurance company doesn't require me to have anything for my new Mercedes. An alarm is not tied to a financial compensation.
WGA is, however, required to start your legally purchased windows. It's more like losing the car key and having to pay 20-40% of the car price to get a replacement.
Any yes, HP is also to blame. 50$ for a new CD with the media on it is redicolous. I would do exactly what you did if my primary system was still windows. Download a pirated version and keep my scratched CD and key handy just in case someone comes knockin'!

matt0210 wrote:

Any yes, HP is also to blame.

I agree with many criticisms of WGA - false positives, annoying legitimate users and so forth. In this case, however, it was nothing of the sort. This was a classic situation where you would WANT WGA to kick in.

Assuming you accept the basic premise that Microsoft are allowed to enforce licensing on their operating system - not an automatic assumption, but one without which the whole thread is pointless - there was no blame on WGA or Microsoft in this case. The blame is on HP for not easily supplying a copy of the media (which costs them nothing) and, if we're going to be picky, the member of Cybermagellan's houseful of kids responsible for stomping on the CD into oblivion.

Cybermagellan wrote:

Why can't legit users get treated like legit users

Well, because that's not a legit use - not even close.

Honestly, think what would happen if WGA didn't exist. You'd have "justified" the pirate install in your own mind and effectively given yourself a free upgrade to Professional. There would seem to be no consequences to you, so in no time at all you'd forget about it.

Then imagine if everyone did that.

Here in the UK you can call MS and the will send you a replacement media if you have proof of purchase and give them the product key and they only charge for P&P.

I'm all for WGA!

Software is licensed for use and WGA is just ensuring the license is used correctly.

If WGA reduces the number of privates then MS has to reduce the cost of windows which is a good thing.

But will they?

If WGA and other anti-piracy measures worked, then the price of the software should go down. Otherwise it is simply a way of making even more profit.

Sofware is highly profitable because it is very cheap to replicate (almosts zero cost). That is probably used as justification for some.

Office may even be more pirated than Windows. A new PC comes with Windows, but not Office. They need it (or rather, want it as they are already familiar and don't know of the free/cheaper alternatives), so they normally borrow a copy from work (or a friend).

The other problem is that someone may have spent a lot of money and can't afford to spend the same (if they got a cheap PC) just to do a few spreadsheets and documents, so a copy is used instead.

I used to just use a copy of Office for home use, but now I just have one copy (for the desktop) through the Home Use Program and use OpenOffice for any other machines (i.e. laptop). For the price you pay, it should be more flexible - to at least cover two machines (desktop and laptop).

If you are entitled to only one license with the HUP, what happens when you get a new PC? There should be an ability the 'deactivate' Windows/Office - so you don't have to pay again just because you buy a new PC. You are still using it on one machine (because you just deactivated), so you end up with an extra license (the one for the old machine that you no longer use).

sbc wrote:

For the price you pay, it should be more flexible - to at least cover two machines (desktop and laptop).

Actually, if you buy Office in the store, its license does cover two PCs. That's not the case for Windows though.

Cybermagellan wrote:

Why can't legit users get treated like legit users instead of like the pirates in Korea selling WindowsXP for 5 dollars (That's where I first got Windows 2000 RC3)?

Well, for one thing when you used an admittedly pirated image and key, how is Microsoft supposed to know you're not one of those pirates?

As for using your XP Home key for XP Pro, their sperate SKU's, it's not unreasonable to think the keys wont transfer somehow.

You are right in saying that there are lots of things you should've/could'be done, but you also admit that you didn't do them.
I'm not a huge fan of WGA, but since I don't have any better ideas, I'm content to live with it, understanding that Microsoft, like any company, has a right to protect their property.

All of you out there railing against WGA, please, offer a reasonable alternative! I'm sure someone would be willing to listen!

Sven Groot wrote:

Now if you had torrented XP Home, used your original OEM key and still got into trouble this would've made sense but as it stands... what did you expect really? You're installing a pirated version of XP Pro using a pirated key. I'd consider it a bug if it didn't notify you.

$48 for a new CD is rediculous though, I'll agree with that.

No I did expect it, like I said I wasn't looking for validation on the notify section because I know it's wrong...I just felt like I was left with no viable options

If I torrented XPHome would that have been any better? I'm contributing to the torrent, I'm promoting the behavior, and by visiting the website I'm still providing revenue to the torrent hoster not to Microsoft, in my mind that still isn't viable....but an only alternative.

So here is another question...is it more recommended by Microsoft (or theorized) to use a "legit" beta of Vista vs. torrented version of XP?