Channel 9 Forums - Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? http://mschnlnine.vo.llnwd.net/d1/Dev/App_Themes/C9/images/feedimage.png Channel 9 Forums - Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums Channel 9 keeps you up to date with the latest news and behind the scenes info from Microsoft that developers love to keep up with. From LINQ to SilverLight – Watch videos and hear about all the cool technologies coming and the people behind them. http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums en Fri, 24 May 2013 07:57:43 GMT Fri, 24 May 2013 07:57:43 GMT Rev9 28 -28 -1 Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? For three years I have been trying to get a job at MS, I put in for any job I am interested in at Microsoft and some I was not so interested in.  I have been interviewed one time.  So to all the softies here, How long did it take you to get on with MS?  I know I wont get on the Windows development team right away, Im willing to start on the bottom and work my way up.  I may actually camp out on Campus until you guys give me a job, and in Seattle that could be a very wet situation.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/243203#243203 Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:07:20 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/243203#243203 rjdohnert 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/rjdohnert/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? I think persistence wouldn't help, but passion would, there's a difference between the two.

It helps the best if you've got something they want, i.e. they want you more than you want them. Like a particular skill-set (hence why they're always eager for more CS doctorates), otherwise they'll just poach someone from inside.

Developing good relationships with those inside also helps, especially when that person is high up, say... a product manager, since they're in charge of hiring for their team. If you're really good, you can bag an "Advocated" position, which (according to Sabot) means you can forgoe the initial interview and get right in there[1].

[1]I haven't verified this claim though.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/42ba634252dd4dd8a7299dec0025031f#42ba634252dd4dd8a7299dec0025031f Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:12:00 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/42ba634252dd4dd8a7299dec0025031f#42ba634252dd4dd8a7299dec0025031f W3bbo 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/W3bbo/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? DELETED: Dupe

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/f259c841a13344429ffb9dec0025034d#f259c841a13344429ffb9dec0025034d Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:26:17 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/f259c841a13344429ffb9dec0025034d#f259c841a13344429ffb9dec0025034d W3bbo 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/W3bbo/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? I interviewed twice for interning, turned down both times. Got some industry experience doing real win32 work then applied for a full time and got it.

My tips: Know how COM works, be able to debug it, understand how to make objects script accessible, etc. Be able to write apps w/ GDI calls.

Maybe it goes without saying, but it really helps if you work on a product similar to an MS product and then apply to work on that specific product.

My advice is for a dev. I don't know anything about getting hired in test or PM. I don't know anyone who was ever turned down for the test or PM positions which is weird when I think about it. I do know lots of people who were not given dev positions.

There's also the orange badge route which I'm not even close to an expert on. Supposedly contractors make a wage equitable to full time, with some extra to cover the absence of full time benefits. You do get the temporary ban hammer after a year if you don't get hired. I don't know the conversion rate, but I hear it's low.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/e130c074b3ff495886659dec0025037e#e130c074b3ff495886659dec0025037e Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:39:26 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/e130c074b3ff495886659dec0025037e#e130c074b3ff495886659dec0025037e petknep_home 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/petknep_home/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
petknep_home wrote:
I interviewed twice for interning, turned down both times. Got some industry experience doing real win32 work then applied for a full time and got it.

My tips: Know how COM works, be able to debug it, understand how to make objects script accessible, etc. Be able to write apps w/ GDI calls.
I applied a handful of times to your organization...never got an interview, though. I know some technologies cold, however, but unfortunately, they are not Microsoft related. It's not that I couldn't learn how COM works on a deep level, and do all the things you list, but for some weird reason I get the feeling that all the effort I would put into learning such technologies would just be a waste of time because I didn't know anybody on the inside.  The sheer volume of resumes pouring in just doesn't help. Plus, it would be my experience to be interviewed and get asked obscure questions that I probably would not have an answer to...and yes you could say it is the "thinking process" that really counts, but I'm sure there would be enough other candidates out there that would know the answer, and therefore I would get knocked out. Although I'm very good at thinking out of the box, fwiw.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/d52e987081844499bc6e9dec002503b0#d52e987081844499bc6e9dec002503b0 Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:21:19 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/d52e987081844499bc6e9dec002503b0#d52e987081844499bc6e9dec002503b0 jsrfc58 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/jsrfc58/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? For me it took persistence.  I knew since high school that Microsoft was the place for me.  I started by learning about different technologies (not just Microsoft).  I became active in different forums (some MS, some not).  I became an MVP 4 years ago and kept up my community activities, sharpening my skills, etc over that time period.  This also helped me get some great connections with people inside and outside, but related to Microsoft.  I interviewed 3 times over about 2 and a half years.  Looking back, they were all really great experiences.  I'm glad I didn't get hired for the first two jobs I interviewed for.  I like this one much better.  Wink

Funny that you mention hanging around here to get a job.  I hear there are a lot more locals hired than from other areas of the US and other countries.  I think it's something like 70%/30%, but don't quote me.  I was originally from Indiana.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/fc0e04d3986341dc893a9dec002503e2#fc0e04d3986341dc893a9dec002503e2 Tue, 24 Oct 2006 04:19:38 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/fc0e04d3986341dc893a9dec002503e2#fc0e04d3986341dc893a9dec002503e2 Erik Porter 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/HumanCompiler/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? The key here is ... "be yourself" .. and have fun in what you are doing...Interesting that I match quite a bit like Erik... I had started helping around in different forums worldwide... and had real satisfaction in that. I became mvp in 2005 and then in 2006... which really helped me to grow as a person and in knowledge, and came to know more smart people around.
But... this place is really fun and I was called for interview here and I was bowled over by the people here. And now being part of them I just find what I thought when I was givin my interview was right... and that is .. Passion , positive attitude and finally.. be yourself and do not pretend.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/0d45405743e84e0ba23e9dec0025042e#0d45405743e84e0ba23e9dec0025042e Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:43:17 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/0d45405743e84e0ba23e9dec0025042e#0d45405743e84e0ba23e9dec0025042e SubratamB 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/SubratamB/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? When would persistence not make sense when trying to accomplish something that's non-trivial?

C

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/ee5302796d604ce382d09dec0025045c#ee5302796d604ce382d09dec0025045c Tue, 24 Oct 2006 06:06:41 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/ee5302796d604ce382d09dec0025045c#ee5302796d604ce382d09dec0025045c Charles 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Charles/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? Oh boy, like taking a hint...

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/c19c8fe68aee4eb8bf6f9dec0025048a#c19c8fe68aee4eb8bf6f9dec0025048a Tue, 24 Oct 2006 06:10:08 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/c19c8fe68aee4eb8bf6f9dec0025048a#c19c8fe68aee4eb8bf6f9dec0025048a LaBomba 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/LaBomba/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
Charles wrote:
When would persistence not make sense when trying to accomplish something that's non-trivial?

C


When on balance the thing you are trying to accomplish isn't actually worth the effort?

[6]

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/271b8bb09a81496787cd9dec002504b9#271b8bb09a81496787cd9dec002504b9 Tue, 24 Oct 2006 06:56:26 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/271b8bb09a81496787cd9dec002504b9#271b8bb09a81496787cd9dec002504b9 blowdart 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/blowdart/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
blowdart wrote:

Charles wrote: When would persistence not make sense when trying to accomplish something that's non-trivial?

C


When on balance the thing you are trying to accomplish isn't actually worth the effort?




That's a reasonable answer. When else?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/8f69429e8d5d4166b01e9dec002504e9#8f69429e8d5d4166b01e9dec002504e9 Tue, 24 Oct 2006 06:59:14 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/8f69429e8d5d4166b01e9dec002504e9#8f69429e8d5d4166b01e9dec002504e9 Charles 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Charles/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
Charles wrote:

blowdart wrote:
Charles wrote: When would persistence not make sense when trying to accomplish something that's non-trivial?

C


When on balance the thing you are trying to accomplish isn't actually worth the effort?


That's a reasonable answer. When else?


When you're a child and your idea of presistance is "But I need it" repeated every minute.

There is a point where the results of persistance just sour the whole experience for you; well it did for me anyway.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/8746b890b254469ea0cf9dec0025051a#8746b890b254469ea0cf9dec0025051a Tue, 24 Oct 2006 07:01:30 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/8746b890b254469ea0cf9dec0025051a#8746b890b254469ea0cf9dec0025051a blowdart 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/blowdart/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
blowdart wrote:

Charles wrote: 
blowdart wrote: 
Charles wrote: When would persistence not make sense when trying to accomplish something that's non-trivial?

C


When on balance the thing you are trying to accomplish isn't actually worth the effort?


That's a reasonable answer. When else?


When you're a child and your idea of presistance is "But I need it" repeated every minute.

There is a point where the results of persistance just sour the whole experience for you; well it did for me anyway.
There are also other things in life that are a little bit more important than your "job" (family, kids, etc.).

It's kind of like when I got through a C Primer book, and then went and picked up a Unix book and sort of said "gee, that's it? This isn't difficult." In some ways, I think a lot of dev jobs at Microsoft aren't actually that difficult once you really dig into them, and have access to appropriate study materials (at least not for me). The question really then becomes, are you, as an organization willing to spend the time teaching somebody or do you want "instant rock stars" to only apply? That seems to be the mode that your company is in right now (maybe I'm wrong). Plus, I don't believe in "sacrificing everything" just for the sake of a career at this company. That's just plain unrealistic, and if and when you guys ever have layoffs, you'll know what I mean. That sort of attitude is great for young salespeople, but in the end it makes for hollow personalities.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/358635ef6a9b48f0a8e99dec0025054f#358635ef6a9b48f0a8e99dec0025054f Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:51:19 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/358635ef6a9b48f0a8e99dec0025054f#358635ef6a9b48f0a8e99dec0025054f jsrfc58 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/jsrfc58/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? I came in as a contractor.  I tried to make it clear that they wanted me permanently, and they did.

I tried getting internships, applying through Monster, applying through the www.microsoft.com/careers site, and never even got a single call back. 

Be persistant, but not spammy.  Continue learning technologies that Microsoft wants people to know, but don't over-focus on it.  Having solid coding, debugging, and communication skills will qualify you for a lot of jobs at MS.  I don't (and won't) have a deep understanding of COM and I'm doing quite well as a dev.  Having a deep understanding will help you get a specific job that requires it.

It helps to know someone at MS who can say positive things about your work.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/634abe197f674848aaa69dec00250580#634abe197f674848aaa69dec00250580 Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:28:33 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/634abe197f674848aaa69dec00250580#634abe197f674848aaa69dec00250580 kriskdf 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/kriskdf/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? When I was young (and stupid) I had same desire to work in MS...

Later I met with different people...

Now I don't want to work INSIDE MS.

There is no place for developers. This is pure marketing company. With goo looking outlook and rotten inside. Like peaches in supermarkets. Smiley
There is too much "managers" (everyone is manager!).

Don't be stupid. If you wish to develop  - stay away from MS.

PS: People whos manufacturing cars very often has no driving license...

PPS: All developers are in India and China. Bcoz they are cheap and there is alot of "developers", literally.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/cddd3dd720e9423fafc29dec002505b2#cddd3dd720e9423fafc29dec002505b2 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 05:02:12 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/cddd3dd720e9423fafc29dec002505b2#cddd3dd720e9423fafc29dec002505b2 Alexei Pavlov 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/BlackTiger/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? I think one of the niners here left his cell phone number in his profile and one day was called up by Microsoft for a job offering. Try it. You never know!

Plus...

If you're passionate Microsoft envanglist and know enough about technology, especially .NET, then you might have be a good job candidate.

Keep your eyes peeled at every opportunity.


Regards,
Vincent


]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/3621985031d44a1bafac9dec002505e1#3621985031d44a1bafac9dec002505e1 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 05:39:18 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/3621985031d44a1bafac9dec002505e1#3621985031d44a1bafac9dec002505e1 Xaero_Vincent 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Xaero_Vincent/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? To get a job at Microsoft you have to have certain qualifications.  Be ignorant of your competitors products lie about them and try to sound like you know what you are talking about.  Hate Linux, Mac OS and Google.  You should fit rifght in rj.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/2bf50a95437c499aa1029dec0025060f#2bf50a95437c499aa1029dec0025060f Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:07:34 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/2bf50a95437c499aa1029dec0025060f#2bf50a95437c499aa1029dec0025060f corona_coder 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/corona_coder/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? Persistence pays off. Don't give up. Keep doing great work. Get into the community where you live locally. Do you know who your local Microsoft people are? MCS, DPE other technical roles that live in your area? Do you know who runs your local INETA or other user groups? Find out. Sign up for any local Microsoft or other community events. Try to contribute locally as well to these things. Work on raising your profile. Become an expert in the product that you want to work on and become an MVP. All these things can make a difference. As some others here have commented Microsoft gets an incredible number of resumes. You stand a much better chance if you can get recognized by someone on the inside first and then offer your intentions rather than going the traditional route.

Just so you know I spent 4 years trying to get the job I really wanted here and I was already working here!!!

Hope that helps Smiley

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/d0299d667ea54663a3849dec00250641#d0299d667ea54663a3849dec00250641 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:12:00 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/d0299d667ea54663a3849dec00250641#d0299d667ea54663a3849dec00250641 Mark Brown 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Mark Brown/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
Xaero_Vincent wrote:

Plus...

If you're passionate Microsoft envanglist and know enough about technology, especially .NET, then you might have be a good job candidate.



IT'S LIE! Especially about .NET. MS not interested in any .NET developers at all! Look at MS "requirements" and you will see it (excellent "See/SeePeePee" and "KOM"? I hate See/SeePeePee! I'm SeePeePee alergic!). May be in US they are hiring "evanglists" (pronounce as "managers"), but not outside.

Also MS hiring alot of "loyal" but not experienced people. I remember one situation. We have meeting with some "MS guys". Everything was fine until... everything was fine. But suddenly happend some problem. And that guy became absolutely useless and almost disappeared! I found source of problem and solution in 15 minutes, but that guys just said "Oh... Strange... Try to uninstall it and install again". So annoying...

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/956bc59186ca47beaa3b9dec00250672#956bc59186ca47beaa3b9dec00250672 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:47:35 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/956bc59186ca47beaa3b9dec00250672#956bc59186ca47beaa3b9dec00250672 Alexei Pavlov 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/BlackTiger/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
BlackTiger wrote:

Xaero_Vincent wrote:
Plus...

If you're passionate Microsoft envanglist and know enough about technology, especially .NET, then you might have be a good job candidate.


IT'S LIE! Especially about .NET. MS not interested in any .NET developers at all! Look at MS "requirements" and you will see it (excellent "See/SeePeePee" and "KOM"? I hate See/SeePeePee! I'm SeePeePee alergic!). May be in US they are hiring "evanglists" (pronounce as "managers"), but not outside.

Also MS hiring alot of "loyal" but not experienced people. I remember one situation. We have meeting with some "MS guys". Everything was fine until... everything was fine. But suddenly happend some problem. And that guy became absolutely useless and almost disappeared! I found source of problem and solution in 15 minutes, but that guys just said "Oh... Strange... Try to uninstall it and install again". So annoying...



Time to feed the trolls:
Anecdotal evidence, it must be TRUE! </sarcasm> If you meet with anyone from Redmond, you're probably meeting a PM and not a dev. The question of who is more leet is beyond the scope of this thread. You should work on your stories though, you don't sound like a fun guy to talk to at a party (some guy did generic thing, then tried another generic thing, and it didn't work!!! LOLOLOLOL) Cool

There's tons of devs in Redmond. We're outnumbered by managers, testers, etc for sure. But too many cooks spoils the soup.

Beer 2.0: No one cares if you love/hate Google, Apple, Linux, whatever other company that you think we have to hate. People openly use their mac book and wear their ipod if that's the hardware they choose to use. We don't hate other companies (see cake sent to Mozilla). The only thing we care about is that you want to make good software.

Back to the original thread:
RJ, what kind of position are you looking for? Dev, PM, test?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/7adb949034d2485eb1869dec002506a8#7adb949034d2485eb1869dec002506a8 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:10:12 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/7adb949034d2485eb1869dec002506a8#7adb949034d2485eb1869dec002506a8 petknep_home 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/petknep_home/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? I interviewed twice with MS Federal (sales). Got turned down. Then I grew a beard and long hair - bingo - got hired.  Unfortunately as soon as I got hired the director who hired me and believed in my vision left DC and went to Redmond. The office was taken over by a bunch of golf playing salesman (and the sales women they cheated on their wives with) who didn't like my vision (bring MS into real enterprises, I had several years of large mainframe experience) and I got fired Sad

I often wonder if the real MS (dev in Redmond) would be a good place to work, but I had such a bad experience with sales I'll probably never find out. Mad

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/449ce821ced345fc862d9dec002506d8#449ce821ced345fc862d9dec002506d8 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:23:43 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/449ce821ced345fc862d9dec002506d8#449ce821ced345fc862d9dec002506d8 spiked 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/spiked/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
BlackTiger wrote:

Xaero_Vincent wrote:
Plus...

If you're passionate Microsoft envanglist and know enough about technology, especially .NET, then you might have be a good job candidate.


IT'S LIE! Especially about .NET. MS not interested in any .NET developers at all! Look at MS "requirements" and you will see it (excellent "See/SeePeePee" and "KOM"? I hate See/SeePeePee! I'm SeePeePee alergic!). May be in US they are hiring "evanglists" (pronounce as "managers"), but not outside.


That simply isn't true.  Granted, the number of unmanaged coders compared to managed coders at MS is probably not balanced (more unmanaged coders), but still.  As more and more teams at Microsoft use .NET, the more .NET coders we'll need.  Um...the Channel 9 team is 100% .NET coders.  The Expression products (for the most part I believe) are written in .NET.  Lots of products these days (excluding Windows and Office) use .NET.  Expect that to only increase over time.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/15817fc25d894adbbc579dec0025070b#15817fc25d894adbbc579dec0025070b Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:13:46 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/15817fc25d894adbbc579dec0025070b#15817fc25d894adbbc579dec0025070b Erik Porter 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/HumanCompiler/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
rjdohnert wrote:
For three years I have been trying to get a job at MS, I put in for any job I am interested in at Microsoft and some I was not so interested in.

Never ever apply for a job that you are "not so interested in."  That is just a recipe for disaster.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/200a5be8096847669d9b9dec0025073a#200a5be8096847669d9b9dec0025073a Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:53:23 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/200a5be8096847669d9b9dec0025073a#200a5be8096847669d9b9dec0025073a JChung2006 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/JChung2006/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? Well, it's evident here that the people that applied and did not make it just were not loyal enough. Did you actually study for the position? Did you study the blogs that are out there? If not, you are wasting everybody's time.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/0abcb74d154644c3ad9f9dec00250769#0abcb74d154644c3ad9f9dec00250769 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:20:39 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/0abcb74d154644c3ad9f9dec00250769#0abcb74d154644c3ad9f9dec00250769 DarthVista 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/DarthVista/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
DarthVista wrote:
If not, you are wasting everybody's time.


Ha, ha, ha!

Being aware of what's going on is a good thing, as is getting involved in community, but I think Barry's proved (he's VERY visible in community, always giving talks and presentations) that there are other factors at work (although in his case I have no idea what those other factors have been).

I've no direct IT experience here, but I do remember when  I worked for a record label we'd get sent the most appalling "demo" tapes and the makers would phone up week after week after week, sending endless new tapes that were invariably worse than awful. They were - to use that ridiculously over-used and more-often-than-not-meaningless word - "passionate" to a ridiculous degree. But when you're tone deaf and your "production" sounds like a bad nursery rhyme played on a stylophone down a mineshaft then I'm sorry I don't care how many times you cry "But.. but... this is my dream. This is all I've wanted all my life. You guys should give me a chance" you ain't gonna get a recording deal. Too many people these days seem to think that simply WANTing something means they have an automatic right to it.

Let's be realistic here. You may come across the occasional dud that slips through the net - in a company the size of Microsoft that's inevitable - but in general Microsoft only want the best. And they have the power and influence to get the best. Persistence can pay off, but if you haven't got what Microsoft what, that ain't going to help you.

By all means keep trying, but don't keep whining here when someone else gets the job and you've tried several different positions and none have worked out - there's usually a good reason! (this is not a dig at the original poster, just a general comment about those who I feel give the impression that just because they post a lot on here that means they should get some kind of elevated recognition in the interview process).

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/6da8a876bac840c185a09dec0025079e#6da8a876bac840c185a09dec0025079e Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:08:10 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/6da8a876bac840c185a09dec0025079e#6da8a876bac840c185a09dec0025079e irascian 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/irascian/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
irascian wrote:

Being aware of what's going on is a good thing, as is getting involved in community, but I think Barry's proved (he's VERY visible in community, always giving talks and presentations) that there are other factors at work (although in his case I have no idea what those other factors have been).


Well not suffering fools easily might be a draw back for a DPE job Big Smile

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/e41a4a589a1940cea2459dec002507ce#e41a4a589a1940cea2459dec002507ce Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:38:53 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/e41a4a589a1940cea2459dec002507ce#e41a4a589a1940cea2459dec002507ce blowdart 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/blowdart/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft? [quote user="irascian"]
DarthVista wrote: If not, you are wasting everybody's time.
I've no direct IT experience here, but I do remember when  I worked for a record label we'd get sent the most appalling "demo" tapes and the makers would phone up week after week after week, sending endless new tapes that were invariably worse than awful. They were - to use that ridiculously over-used and more-often-than-not-meaningless word - "passionate" to a ridiculous degree. But when you're tone deaf and your "production" sounds like a bad nursery rhyme played on a stylophone down a mineshaft then I'm sorry I don't care how many times you cry "But.. but... this is my dream. This is all I've wanted all my life. You guys should give me a chance" you ain't gonna get a recording deal. Too many people these days seem to think that simply WANTing something means they have an automatic right to it.

quote]

Oh’ come on Irascian. Don’t you feel your being a little harsh? Sure the story you put forth regarding the music industry is probably very true as it is in life, but can’t there be a better ideal?

Persistence? I say keep at it in one way or the other.  

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/6215546453ca417eb0659dec00250802#6215546453ca417eb0659dec00250802 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:34:29 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/6215546453ca417eb0659dec00250802#6215546453ca417eb0659dec00250802 jason818_253.33 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/jason818_253.33/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Does persistence pay off when getting a job with Microsoft?
jason818_253.33 wrote:
Oh’ come on Irascian. Don’t you feel your being a little harsh? Sure the story you put forth regarding the music industry is probably very true as it is in life, but can’t there be a better ideal?

No. The word "Entitlement" should be removed from all the dictionaries.

If you suck, well, you suck. There's no amout of lip gloss you can put on that will help your cause.

That said, I'm one of the oldest guys around here, so that may contribute to my outlook on life and stuff...

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/11334d34eab745479dd69dec00250832#11334d34eab745479dd69dec00250832 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:42:52 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/243203-Does-persistence-pay-off-when-getting-a-job-with-Microsoft/11334d34eab745479dd69dec00250832#11334d34eab745479dd69dec00250832 PaoloM 28 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/PaoloM/Discussions/RSS