Channel 9 Forums - Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. http://mschnlnine.vo.llnwd.net/d1/Dev/App_Themes/C9/images/feedimage.png Channel 9 Forums - Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums Channel 9 keeps you up to date with the latest news and behind the scenes info from Microsoft that developers love to keep up with. From LINQ to SilverLight – Watch videos and hear about all the cool technologies coming and the people behind them. http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums en Thu, 23 May 2013 20:02:59 GMT Thu, 23 May 2013 20:02:59 GMT Rev9 65 -65 -1 Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. I just met up with a fairly large number of friends socially that I haven't seen in a while.. One is a dev type, the rest aren't. One thing they all had in common (at least over the last few years) were them all being PC users.

Interestingly enough, all of them are getting Macs this Christmas. Everyone of them.

I found this a bit depressing.. I guess it's a pride thing, being a windows user (since my contracts all require Windows work and will be for the foreseeable future) and all that.

It just had me thinking.

If this is in anyway indicative of the future, does Microsoft care about losing all of these customers to Apple (no one I know is switching to Linux, that I know of)? I came up with these scenarios. I'm sure there are more. I refer to these non-geek, non-business users as "family users".

1) Microsoft doesn't really care about the family users; the real money is made in businesses, which is where they will continue to focus. While Microsoft won't simply give up that marketshare, they're not willing to heavily invest in winning them back / keeping what they got.

2) Microsoft does care about the family users, but does not have the resources yet (due to everyone working on IE 7 / Vista / Longhorn Server / etc.) to win them back / keep what they have. Maybe we'll start seeing some neat things in the future on this.

3) Microsoft cares about the family users, and truely believes that Windows Vista will win the hearts and minds of the home users. (Homies?) If this is the case, they have done little to no marketing on this aimed towards this crowd. Ive said this before, has anyone seen or heard of a Marketing campaign aimed towards this crowd? I haven't.

4) Microsoft doesn't realize what's going on. They're too busy doing what they're doing to see this. Or they are choosing not to see it.

Regardless whether or not any of this is true, it seems that Microsoft, in general, is in a "reactive" state, not a "proactive" state. Internet Explorer is a great example of this: Microsoft pretty much wrote off IE (all the workers were assigned to be in other places) until Firefox came around and became popular. This is what I remembered reading. Maybe some Microsoft Employees can elaborate more on this. The Zune is another example.. The Zune is --mostly-- based upon an iPod, admit it or not. Vista as a whole was begun in response to emerging operating systems, namely OS X. Sure, there are things in Vista that were announced prior to OS X including them, but the need to re-do a lot of the OS is in response to something, not being proactive.

I think there are exceptions, like the X-Box 360, but I think in general, Microsoft is re-acting.

So, am I just being a 'downer'? Or do I actually make some points in this rant?

Jackson

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/250513#250513 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 02:14:24 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/250513#250513 Jack Poison 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Jack Poison/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. for what it's worth - im going back to xp
ive had it with vista (ill spare the rant)

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/15399f8dfdff4327b8bb9dec003e3fdb#15399f8dfdff4327b8bb9dec003e3fdb Mon, 04 Dec 2006 02:24:12 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/15399f8dfdff4327b8bb9dec003e3fdb#15399f8dfdff4327b8bb9dec003e3fdb me 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/jamie/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
Me on my Mac and Vista Ultimate on the desktop behind me to the left, to the right my girlfriends XP machine with her 23inch monitor.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/f65b32602d4d4fa395439dec003e4002#f65b32602d4d4fa395439dec003e4002 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 02:29:34 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/f65b32602d4d4fa395439dec003e4002#f65b32602d4d4fa395439dec003e4002 Cybermagellan 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Cybermagellan/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. And how many of them are switching to Mac because they can finally dual boot/run windows in Parallels at native speed?  Microsoft loses no sales or customers when people are still using Windows on their Macs.

It's Dell, HP, etc. that are the losers here.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/25e2a6d62a434afb859f9dec003e402a#25e2a6d62a434afb859f9dec003e402a Mon, 04 Dec 2006 02:44:49 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/25e2a6d62a434afb859f9dec003e402a#25e2a6d62a434afb859f9dec003e402a JonathonW 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/CannotResolveSymbol/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. It wouldn't be a bad thing if more users switched to Apple or other operating systems.  Competition is a good thing -- which is why it also wouldn't be bad if more people bought Zunes either.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/e356ab73a0ba4c95b04d9dec003e4051#e356ab73a0ba4c95b04d9dec003e4051 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 02:56:26 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/e356ab73a0ba4c95b04d9dec003e4051#e356ab73a0ba4c95b04d9dec003e4051 JChung2006 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/JChung2006/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. A good friend of mine broke my heart and got a Mac, then she went off to Collage.

A week later She sent me a note saying that iPhoto SSSUCKSSSASSS her word not mine, she also wanted to kick her Mac in it’s porthole!

Every time I’ve been in an Apple Store there is a long line of people waiting to get something fixed.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/bb259107839446ffbafd9dec003e4079#bb259107839446ffbafd9dec003e4079 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 03:01:32 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/bb259107839446ffbafd9dec003e4079#bb259107839446ffbafd9dec003e4079 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
CannotResolveSymbol wrote:
And how many of them are switching to Mac because they can finally dual boot/run windows in Parallels at native speed?  Microsoft loses no sales or customers when people are still using Windows on their Macs.

It's Dell, HP, etc. that are the losers here.


I think it is the geeks that want to dual boot / run in Parallels, personally. Maybe not geeks, but the "power users" (no pun intended). Most people that I know (minus the dev) will not likely run in parallels / boot camp (what a sucky name).

But, the point remains, what is Microsoft's thinking with this, assuming my experience (and, I know of a few other people who have seen this trend independently) is indicative of the current state of affairs? Do they care or not? Do you think they have a plan that has some chance of success?

One last thought I had (and I'm not terribly serious): Maybe Microsoft wants Apple to increase marketshare, so the world might see a sizable amount of OS X "Exploits in the wild" (note, I'm not saying the word Virus here...).

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/21844812b4af47fdbadb9dec003e40a4#21844812b4af47fdbadb9dec003e40a4 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 03:10:22 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/21844812b4af47fdbadb9dec003e40a4#21844812b4af47fdbadb9dec003e40a4 Jack Poison 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Jack Poison/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
jamie wrote:
for what it's worth - im going back to xp
ive had it with vista (ill spare the rant)



Care to Explain?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/2636b95202e1406d85759dec003e40cb#2636b95202e1406d85759dec003e40cb Mon, 04 Dec 2006 03:14:22 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/2636b95202e1406d85759dec003e40cb#2636b95202e1406d85759dec003e40cb SecretSoftware 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/SecretSoftware/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
JChung2006 wrote:
It wouldn't be a bad thing if more users switched to Apple or other operating systems.  Competition is a good thing -- which is why it also wouldn't be bad if more people bought Zunes either.


Hmmm...  maybe if Mac and Linux started gaining marketshare, Microsoft could actually start doing useful without fear of getting sued off the face of the earth for being a "monopoly".  Tongue Out

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/7be1c3954e6e42668ce59dec003e40f4#7be1c3954e6e42668ce59dec003e40f4 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 03:35:12 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/7be1c3954e6e42668ce59dec003e40f4#7be1c3954e6e42668ce59dec003e40f4 JonathonW 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/CannotResolveSymbol/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
SecretSoftware wrote:

jamie wrote: for what it's worth - im going back to xp
ive had it with vista (ill spare the rant)



Care to Explain?


laptop - no internet.  didnt use it for a longtime - go to install xp on it today -  "you need to activate - reduced functionality bla bla -" locked out - lost xp2 cd - have on drive - need to burn off laptop - vista wont burn image properly - laptop wont pick it up on boot - tried ultimate boot cd (downloaded it) ran it - no drive c:  - cant figure it out - boot to safe mode w/command prompt..  cd i386/winnt - error ok - winnt32 - error - but goes through ..starts copying - misses some files - skip skip - restart - files missing - looping setup boot - go to tory xp machine with burner - go to copy nero - log into (c9)vista - you cant have no password - arg - go to c9 vista (me) - copy stuff to server - go back to tory - copy from server...

thats where im at
i  - just - want - to - load - xp

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b1755779a61645ce8a359dec003e411e#b1755779a61645ce8a359dec003e411e Mon, 04 Dec 2006 03:50:42 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b1755779a61645ce8a359dec003e411e#b1755779a61645ce8a359dec003e411e me 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/jamie/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
jamie wrote:

SecretSoftware wrote: 
jamie wrote: for what it's worth - im going back to xp
ive had it with vista (ill spare the rant)



Care to Explain?


laptop - no internet.  didnt use it for a longtime - go to install xp on it today -  "you need to activate - reduced functionality bla bla -" locked out - lost xp2 cd - have on drive - need to burn off laptop - vista wont burn image properly - laptop wont pick it up on boot - tried ultimate boot cd (downloaded it) ran it - no drive c:  - cant figure it out - boot to safe mode w/command prompt..  cd i386/winnt - error ok - winnt32 - error - but goes through ..starts copying - misses some files - skip skip - restart - files missing - looping setup boot - go to tory xp machine with burner - go to copy nero - log into (c9)vista - you cant have no password - arg - go to c9 vista (me) - copy stuff to server - go back to tory - copy from server...

thats where im at
i  - just - want - to - load - xp



Here is a tip that might help you.

When ever it says missing file xyz.sys or something eject the CD and insert it again. most of the time it will find the file and resume.

This happen because the error rate in writing data is not reduced. Use slow speeds when writing files.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b128dd771ad349d89fd69dec003e414a#b128dd771ad349d89fd69dec003e414a Mon, 04 Dec 2006 04:16:21 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b128dd771ad349d89fd69dec003e414a#b128dd771ad349d89fd69dec003e414a SecretSoftware 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/SecretSoftware/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. I don't think all that many average users will move to Apple Macs, or Linux in the near future. Currently Windows operating systems are the most popular by a long way, and thus, people know them, and know how to work them a lot better; I doubt you will see many people deciding that using Mac OS X, or a distribution of Linux will be eqaul to using Windows XP for example.

The majority of people who buy computers from Dell, HP, etc. will continue to get Windows XP, Windows Vista, etc. pre-installed, and they are unlikely to reinstall the operating system. People who play games will use Windows operating systems, and people who need to run specific applications will probably run a Windows operating system due to compatibility.

I don't think Microsoft has anything to worry about, advertising Windows Vista doesn't have to be done too much, the computer manufacturers do that when they try to sell people the most expensive system they can (make most money), which in a few months time will run Windows Vista.

Angus Higgins

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/87d1067bae0248a69eec9dec003e4175#87d1067bae0248a69eec9dec003e4175 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 06:48:21 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/87d1067bae0248a69eec9dec003e4175#87d1067bae0248a69eec9dec003e4175 Angus 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Angus/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. I guess it's the home versus work markets. 
Home users will like Macs because they appear to be easier to user (I haven't used a Mac since 1988, so I'm somewhat out of date). Frankly, if my mother came to me to ask what computer to buy, I'd probably tell her to get a Mac.
Business, on the other hand, uses Windows.  They won't change because it would cost too much. They've already invested a lot of infrastructure and training.  MS would have to screw-up Windows very badly to make business change.

If Macs got very popular, MS would start shipping more apps for them.  I'd be happy to write Mac code if MS made a version of Visual Studio for OS X Big Smile

Herbie



]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/9482cf9d95f840989c5b9dec003e419f#9482cf9d95f840989c5b9dec003e419f Mon, 04 Dec 2006 07:30:45 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/9482cf9d95f840989c5b9dec003e419f#9482cf9d95f840989c5b9dec003e419f Herbie Smith 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Dr Herbie/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
CannotResolveSymbol wrote:

Hmmm...  maybe if Mac and Linux started gaining marketshare, Microsoft could actually start doing useful without fear of getting sued off the face of the earth for being a "monopoly". 


I've been thinking that too. I think we could be seeing some amazing things if MS wasn't crippled by antitrust issues anymore.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/67206db422e148e1b97a9dec003e41d1#67206db422e148e1b97a9dec003e41d1 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 08:42:19 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/67206db422e148e1b97a9dec003e41d1#67206db422e148e1b97a9dec003e41d1 Bas 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Bas/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
Bas wrote:

CannotResolveSymbol wrote: 
Hmmm...  maybe if Mac and Linux started gaining marketshare, Microsoft could actually start doing useful without fear of getting sued off the face of the earth for being a "monopoly". 


I've been thinking that too. I think we could be seeing some amazing things if MS wasn't crippled by antitrust issues anymore.


I think that MS is crippled not because they are a monopoly, rather, they supposedly abused their monopoly to an unfair advantage.

Back to my original issue, I think it will be interesting to see at Christmas time how well PC sales do in comparison to Mac sales.

And whether or not Microsoft / Dell / HP / Sony do anything about it.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/46b6e458dd9f4d4885fd9dec003e41fb#46b6e458dd9f4d4885fd9dec003e41fb Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:17:36 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/46b6e458dd9f4d4885fd9dec003e41fb#46b6e458dd9f4d4885fd9dec003e41fb Jack Poison 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Jack Poison/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Jack you have some very valid points that have crossed my mind more than a few times. The guy in the next cube to me just got a Mac laptop for music and writing plays. His grandson had a Mac and he liked the "percieved" ease of use and creative cache(sp) that goes with it.

One of my friends and I were talking (both of us .net programmers) about how there should be a tablet type device just for web surfing at home. I want a TPC for work but he only wants a cheap tablet to surf from his couch. The Mira was looking to be this but It was expensive and got axed.

I think simple web appliances with less functionality are the untapped frontier. How about a simple spreadsheet and word processor in your linksys router for home to use with that browser tablet?

 

My bread and butter comes from working with Windows apps. But a rethink of things may be in order. If you try to please everyone you end up with a monster app.

 

The old saying is “A camel is a horse designed by commite”.

Don't get me wrong innovation and more features are great but some market segments may need a different approach.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/8e6aee2411484c6d9bb29dec003e4225#8e6aee2411484c6d9bb29dec003e4225 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:45:04 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/8e6aee2411484c6d9bb29dec003e4225#8e6aee2411484c6d9bb29dec003e4225 CodeMonkey666 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/CodeMonkey666/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. It’s always darkest before the dawn…..

I predict Apple’s Market share will begin to drop by Q2 ’07.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/3789de6713aa40d992cf9dec003e424c#3789de6713aa40d992cf9dec003e424c Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:02:50 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/3789de6713aa40d992cf9dec003e424c#3789de6713aa40d992cf9dec003e424c eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
It’s always darkest before the dawn…..

I predict Apple’s Market share will begin to drop by Q2 ’07.


I'm curious, why do you say this? I haven't heard anything that would make me think this and This Person hasn't said anything about it, either.

Jackson

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/2ac23f8e5f2f49a5b2879dec003e4273#2ac23f8e5f2f49a5b2879dec003e4273 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:30:19 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/2ac23f8e5f2f49a5b2879dec003e4273#2ac23f8e5f2f49a5b2879dec003e4273 Jack Poison 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Jack Poison/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Once Intel releases the new mobile chipset in Q1 ’07 PC laptops will be lighter, faster and much cheaper then Macs.

These new machines will all be preloaded with Windows Vista and new GPU’s that support DirectX 10.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/d49ad3ad0f324739ac5b9dec003e429b#d49ad3ad0f324739ac5b9dec003e429b Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:21:19 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/d49ad3ad0f324739ac5b9dec003e429b#d49ad3ad0f324739ac5b9dec003e429b eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Once Intel releases the new mobile chipset in Q1 ’07 PC laptops will be lighter, faster and much cheaper then Macs.

These new machines will all be preloaded with Windows Vista and new GPU’s that support DirectX 10.


I thought Apple uses Intel now. Why couldn't they use Intel in their own laptops?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/82da49b3e95f41449d899dec003e42c3#82da49b3e95f41449d899dec003e42c3 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:51:24 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/82da49b3e95f41449d899dec003e42c3#82da49b3e95f41449d899dec003e42c3 Harlequin 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Harlequin/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Once Intel releases the new mobile chipset in Q1 ’07 PC laptops will be lighter, faster and much cheaper then Macs.

These new machines will all be preloaded with Windows Vista and new GPU’s that support DirectX 10.

Uh...you do know Apple desktops and laptops use Intel chipsets and CPU's and have for some time...right?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/69a58da9e8804e43abdb9dec003e42eb#69a58da9e8804e43abdb9dec003e42eb Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:54:46 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/69a58da9e8804e43abdb9dec003e42eb#69a58da9e8804e43abdb9dec003e42eb Nitz Walsh 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Nitz Walsh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Yes we all know that Apple now uses Intel and pigs are flying, but tell me how much do they charge?

Will Apple now ship with Windows Vista?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/0620a6683c814b3e84199dec003e4312#0620a6683c814b3e84199dec003e4312 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:07:05 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/0620a6683c814b3e84199dec003e4312#0620a6683c814b3e84199dec003e4312 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
jamie wrote:
thats where im at
i  - just - want - to - load - xp


I feel the pain.

I migrated two of my machines to Vista: a desktop and my tablet. Both fairly high end machines. Both are back with XP after months of fighting Vista RC1 through RTM.

I'm sure to get Vista preloaded on my next new machines. Hopefully, the experience will be better.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/fe7a150a4f35462fbbc79dec003e433a#fe7a150a4f35462fbbc79dec003e433a Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:12:41 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/fe7a150a4f35462fbbc79dec003e433a#fe7a150a4f35462fbbc79dec003e433a KosherCoder 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/KosherCoder/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Once Intel releases the new mobile chipset in Q1 ’07 PC laptops will be lighter, faster and much cheaper then Macs. 
By "lighter, faster" are you saying that if each model is thrown thrown like a Frisbee®, the PC laptop will fly farther? Are you willing to test this and post the results here?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/6d3fa6f0f3ad4f79ab639dec003e4362#6d3fa6f0f3ad4f79ab639dec003e4362 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:21:59 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/6d3fa6f0f3ad4f79ab639dec003e4362#6d3fa6f0f3ad4f79ab639dec003e4362 Cornelius Ellsonpeter 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Cornelius Ellsonpeter/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Once Intel releases the new mobile chipset in Q1 ’07 PC laptops will be lighter, faster and much cheaper then Macs.

These new machines will all be preloaded with Windows Vista and new GPU’s that support DirectX 10.


I'm afraid that I agree with the others: why can't Apple use the new mobile chip set?

And, probably more important, why would a chipset be a 'deciding factor' in what mom, pop, and the other family members buying a PC vs. Mac?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/d71ee221f929437b9df99dec003e438a#d71ee221f929437b9df99dec003e438a Mon, 04 Dec 2006 19:30:46 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/d71ee221f929437b9df99dec003e438a#d71ee221f929437b9df99dec003e438a Jack Poison 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Jack Poison/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Because they will cost about a third of what an equivalent Mac will.

DirectX 10 is going to give Windows Vista PC’s improved graphics over Mac’s and the question is how long will it take Apple to catch-up?.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/c80622194f92403caa169dec003e43b1#c80622194f92403caa169dec003e43b1 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:03:24 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/c80622194f92403caa169dec003e43b1#c80622194f92403caa169dec003e43b1 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Yes we all know that Apple now uses Intel and pigs are flying, but tell me how much do they charge?

If you did know that Apple uses Intel chipsets, then your preceeding post didn't make any sense.  So it's obvious you didn't know this common fact.

If you want to see what they charge, just hit apple.com. 

eagle wrote:

Will Apple now ship with Windows Vista?

Obviously not.  Why, should they?  What specifically do believe Vista has over OSX that will prompt Mac users to switch?  The bundled apps in Vista are certainly no match for iLife for example, so please - let us know your infinite wisdom on this subject.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/d0186ab798274c01a7e19dec003e4406#d0186ab798274c01a7e19dec003e4406 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:20:33 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/d0186ab798274c01a7e19dec003e4406#d0186ab798274c01a7e19dec003e4406 Nitz Walsh 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Nitz Walsh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Because they will cost about a third of what an equivalent Mac will.

Absolute nonsense.  For equivalent hardware that's not remotely the case, and it's certainly not the case with similar notebooks.  Compare the specs and take size/weight into account, and Mac notebooks are definitely comparable in price/performance to their PC counterparts.

It sounds like you're posting from a 10 year old "Mac vs. PC" playbook.

eagle wrote:

DirectX 10 is going to give Windows Vista PC’s improved graphics over Mac’s


Really?  Why?  Mac have never been remotely comparable in games to the PC, so DX10 vs. Mac is a non-starter issue.  "Improved graphics" in what way, exactly?

Regardless, the DX10-like features in GPU's (whenever Apple feels like offering them) can be taken advantage of with OpenGL extensions.  I fail to see the relevance however, as Aero is using DX9 - and very meagre usage of it at that.  Hell, OSX has more animated transitions and more "gloss" in certain aspects than Aero now - it certainly has more polish (resize a window in Aero.  Now do it on OSX. See the difference)?

Perhaps WPF will enable more stunning applications than CoreAnimation - who knows.  We'll see.  That's what you meant...right?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/93c1ab727af54a80bb9b9dec003e43dd#93c1ab727af54a80bb9b9dec003e43dd Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:21:44 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/93c1ab727af54a80bb9b9dec003e43dd#93c1ab727af54a80bb9b9dec003e43dd Nitz Walsh 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Nitz Walsh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
Nitz Walsh wrote:

Obviously not.  Why, should they?  What specifically do believe Vista has over OSX that will prompt Mac users to switch?


At ddd4 on Saturday there was a Mac user with Vista installed. Mind you, he was an MS employee Big Smile

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/df3d3c9c5a8547308a579dec003e442f#df3d3c9c5a8547308a579dec003e442f Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:23:09 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/df3d3c9c5a8547308a579dec003e442f#df3d3c9c5a8547308a579dec003e442f blowdart 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/blowdart/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. I'm waiting to see if Mac's get GPU's that support DirectX 10 so they can sell them to people who want to install Windows Vista.



Did you know the iPod has Intel inside?

 




Why hasn't anyone posted Mac prices yet?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/3a8c7aa434e94c7ca6f79dec003e4456#3a8c7aa434e94c7ca6f79dec003e4456 Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:40:53 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/3a8c7aa434e94c7ca6f79dec003e4456#3a8c7aa434e94c7ca6f79dec003e4456 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
I'm waiting to see if Mac's get GPU's that support DirectX 10 so they can sell them to people who want to install Windows Vista.


Is DX10 required for Vista? Or only for Aero Glass? If it's only Aero Glass, then you're assuming that people will be more likely to buy a Vista machine because of Aero Glass. Somehow, I don't think Vista makes a compelling case for that.

Which lends me to my original thought: Microsoft will lose home customers. And think they'll (as a company) shrug and say, oh well.

Any MS employees think otherwise? And maybe show some up an coming counter examples? Like a compelling reason to "stay with windows"?

BTW - today was slightly less depressing.

Jackson

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/86c5cf0aec7b47d6a8d79dec003e447f#86c5cf0aec7b47d6a8d79dec003e447f Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:57:04 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/86c5cf0aec7b47d6a8d79dec003e447f#86c5cf0aec7b47d6a8d79dec003e447f Jack Poison 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Jack Poison/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
I'm waiting to see if Mac's get GPU's that support DirectX 10 so they can sell them to people who want to install Windows Vista.

Since when is DX10 a requirement of using Vista?

eagle wrote:
Why hasn't anyone posted Mac prices yet?

Why don't you get off your butt and check yourself?  You're the one making the claim that PC's cost "a third as much" of equivalent Macs.  Make a claim, back it up.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b574bbffa74e436691b49dec003e44a8#b574bbffa74e436691b49dec003e44a8 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:06:07 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b574bbffa74e436691b49dec003e44a8#b574bbffa74e436691b49dec003e44a8 Nitz Walsh 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Nitz Walsh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
Jack Poison wrote:

eagle wrote: I'm waiting to see if Mac's get GPU's that support DirectX 10 so they can sell them to people who want to install Windows Vista.


Is DX10 required for Vista? Or only for Aero Glass? If it's only Aero Glass, then you're assuming that people will be more likely to buy a Vista machine because of Aero Glass. Somehow, I don't think Vista makes a compelling case for that.


Of course DX10 is in no way shape or form a requirement for Vista or Aero.  Heck, the first DirectX10 cards from Nvidia just came out - and they start at $449.  No way is MS that stupid.

Aero only requires DX9 - even integrated chipsets with the Intel GMA950 support Aero and perform well with it.  Games won't "require" DX10 for many years even.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b846161fcfcc45a989659dec003e44d2#b846161fcfcc45a989659dec003e44d2 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:10:05 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b846161fcfcc45a989659dec003e44d2#b846161fcfcc45a989659dec003e44d2 Nitz Walsh 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Nitz Walsh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Guys like you would tell me how Apple’s IBM chips were superior to Intel chips, nice to see that you have moved on.

When you see a PC running the full Windows Vista I'm sure you'll come around.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/dfa680e0851b43e991cd9dec003e44f9#dfa680e0851b43e991cd9dec003e44f9 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:18:59 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/dfa680e0851b43e991cd9dec003e44f9#dfa680e0851b43e991cd9dec003e44f9 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Guys like you would tell me how Apple’s IBM chips were superior to Intel chips, nice to see that you have moved on.

When you see a PC running the full Windows Vista I'm sure you'll come around.
Thanks for being a guiding light around here. It is much appreciated by the "lurking majority". Paul, what must we do to lure the dotnet community back here?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/653a1ff249254e8796eb9dec003e4521#653a1ff249254e8796eb9dec003e4521 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:45:59 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/653a1ff249254e8796eb9dec003e4521#653a1ff249254e8796eb9dec003e4521 DarthVista 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/DarthVista/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Guys like you would tell me how Apple’s IBM chips were superior to Intel chips, nice to see that you have moved on.

Er...no I wouldn't.  Going to Intel was the best move Apple has made in a long time.

What does the fact that Apple used IBM chips have anything to do with your complete lack of knowledge about the platform?  Your innacuracies are being corrected, so naturally your ego is bruised and you're trying to paint me as some kind of Apple zealot.

There are many things I like about OSX, and many things I like about Vista.  I'm simply educated in both, while you appear to know little about either.
eagle wrote:
When you see a PC running the full Windows Vista I'm sure you'll come around.

Uh, I'm running one _now_. 

Seriously, how old are you?  Do you have a clue as to what you're talking about at all? 

I have a feeling some videogame console forum has just lost its favourite troll.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/bc8133efab0f4c3aac1b9dec003e454c#bc8133efab0f4c3aac1b9dec003e454c Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:50:22 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/bc8133efab0f4c3aac1b9dec003e454c#bc8133efab0f4c3aac1b9dec003e454c Nitz Walsh 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Nitz Walsh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Then getting Mac's Vista Ready will be the next best move.

What GPU have you?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b9e7580608904bd9b2509dec003e4573#b9e7580608904bd9b2509dec003e4573 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:53:50 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b9e7580608904bd9b2509dec003e4573#b9e7580608904bd9b2509dec003e4573 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Then getting Mac's Vista Ready will be the next best move.

Er, they already are.  Hell, every Mac sold now is at least dual-core.  The Mac Pro workstations are all two dual-core CPU's, for quad core.  As usual, you don't have a clue.

As I asked before: What specific features in OSX 10.4 (and the upcoming 10.5) do you think are so deficient that Apple uses will be clamoring for Vista?
eagle wrote:

What GPU have you?

7600 GT - complete overkill for Aero, but I like to game at times.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/6d1b93d250a94f3696ed9dec003e459c#6d1b93d250a94f3696ed9dec003e459c Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:58:05 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/6d1b93d250a94f3696ed9dec003e459c#6d1b93d250a94f3696ed9dec003e459c Nitz Walsh 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Nitz Walsh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. You’re the one getting hysterical, Apple's market share is about to peak.

You seem to forget that Microsoft doesn't make PC's, Partners do.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/0b4cc8f0e8734ff8a1519dec003e4669#0b4cc8f0e8734ff8a1519dec003e4669 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 01:01:01 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/0b4cc8f0e8734ff8a1519dec003e4669#0b4cc8f0e8734ff8a1519dec003e4669 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. You have yet to experience the full Vista effect, yet you carry on as if you know it all LOL....

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/34d3ff364af7419e91f69dec003e46ba#34d3ff364af7419e91f69dec003e46ba Tue, 05 Dec 2006 01:07:22 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/34d3ff364af7419e91f69dec003e46ba#34d3ff364af7419e91f69dec003e46ba eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
You’re the one getting hysterical, Apple's market share is about to peak.

No accusations of hysterics were ever levied, just knowledge.  You continually make assertions which indicate you don't understand the capabilities of Macs, or Vista.  Suck it up and deal with it.

As for Apples market share, who knows?  You certainly don't, and it's neither here nor there.  Why exactly are you addressing your wild guesses about Mac marketshare to me?  What does it have to do with anything in this thread?
eagle wrote:

You seem to forget that Microsoft doesn't make PC's, Partners do.

Yes, I know.

Again...what is your point?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/12df937e541543dcbf349dec003e4693#12df937e541543dcbf349dec003e4693 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 01:08:02 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/12df937e541543dcbf349dec003e4693#12df937e541543dcbf349dec003e4693 Nitz Walsh 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Nitz Walsh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
You have yet to experience the full Vista effect, yet you carry on as if you know it all LOL....


Someone please push this troll back under the bridge.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/8efc85a277bf47e881829dec003e46e1#8efc85a277bf47e881829dec003e46e1 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 01:08:34 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/8efc85a277bf47e881829dec003e46e1#8efc85a277bf47e881829dec003e46e1 Nitz Walsh 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Nitz Walsh/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Since when is a Windows Vista user a troll on a MSDN community site?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/473c4514b0c54b21aa019dec003e4708#473c4514b0c54b21aa019dec003e4708 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 01:10:51 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/473c4514b0c54b21aa019dec003e4708#473c4514b0c54b21aa019dec003e4708 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
You’re the one getting hysterical, Apple's market share is about to peak.


This Apple market growth thing has happened before, so you may be right on that - but consider this: For the first time in history, quality/features aren't valued by consumers as much as looks. This is a plus for Apple, a company that makes limited products inside attractive (or so people say) boxes.

I hope Apple doesn't win out, because if they do they'll continue to build a real monopoly - a monopoly that will make the EU and DOJ crumble. How can  they be stopped when they control the hardware, the software, the retail-outlets and the peripherals.

If I was Microsoft I would cut my losses and start working on a new operating system / gui. One that seperates itself (postitively) so far from Linux and MacOS that no-one wouldn't want to switch.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/4c7b7d1ca3c0453fb4839dec003e474c#4c7b7d1ca3c0453fb4839dec003e474c Tue, 05 Dec 2006 06:01:51 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/4c7b7d1ca3c0453fb4839dec003e474c#4c7b7d1ca3c0453fb4839dec003e474c intrepid 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/intrepid/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Yes we all know that Apple now uses Intel and pigs are flying, but tell me how much do they charge?

Will Apple now ship with Windows Vista?


Either you're dripping with sarcasm or tragically misinformed [6]. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/2f337d104c604e7986699dec003e4774#2f337d104c604e7986699dec003e4774 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:45:25 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/2f337d104c604e7986699dec003e4774#2f337d104c604e7986699dec003e4774 Alex1537 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Alex1537/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Since when is a Windows Vista user a troll on a MSDN community site?

Whenever he behaves like a troll.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/8bc69e9db6ee448092ca9dec003e479b#8bc69e9db6ee448092ca9dec003e479b Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:51:00 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/8bc69e9db6ee448092ca9dec003e479b#8bc69e9db6ee448092ca9dec003e479b PaoloM 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/PaoloM/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Guys like you would tell me how Apple’s IBM chips were superior to Intel chips, nice to see that you have moved on.

When you see a PC running the full Windows Vista I'm sure you'll come around.


I have one of those (RC2). Imagine my shock and disappointment when I found that my machine was crawling around at half the speed of XP. To me Vista looks more and more like bloatware... I was getting so excited about its features too Sad.

I'm sticking to XP for games (that's all I use my windows box for anyway) and will continue to use my PowerMac G5 for everything else.

Most of my colleagues are getting Macs this Christmas. the one barrier that stopped them from switching was the ability to run their windows apps. Now the barrier has fallen, they're off.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b5ef1b65e80d49f7aa3c9dec003e47c5#b5ef1b65e80d49f7aa3c9dec003e47c5 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 09:07:21 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b5ef1b65e80d49f7aa3c9dec003e47c5#b5ef1b65e80d49f7aa3c9dec003e47c5 Alex1537 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Alex1537/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
intrepid wrote:


For the first time in history, quality/features aren't valued by consumers as much as looks. This is a plus for Apple, a company that makes limited products inside attractive (or so people say) boxes.


Rubbish. Are you seriously suggesting that products such as the MacPro are "limited", with functionality sacrificed for the benefit of aesthetics? Check out a couple of reviews from PC-centric sites (Anandtech's review is a good start) and you'll see that there's as much substance as style.

Apple products are desgined to cater for specific markets, as are the bulge bracket producers of cheap PCs. If you look long and hard you will see that Apple doesn't operate at the high-volume low-margin end, nor does it operate at the Quad-SLI-type gaming end. For their features (including the software which you HAVE to take into account because it forms part of Apple's value proposition), their machines are more than competitively priced.

What has become obvious is that the bulge-bracket has nothing to fear from Apple (and vice-versa) - each to his own. Manufacturers such as Sony, Tosh or Asus are the ones who need to worry about Apple because they operate in the same sort of bracket.  As for MS, they have nothing to fear in the short or even medium term. they gain either way.

Apple designs products to cater for a chosen market. In their case, it's people who pay Apple to take the pain out of computing. As anyone who has sat through 3 hours of SATA driver hell on XP or Vista will attest, sometimes that's a price worth paying.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/d8a1becbc94b47a1a88b9dec003e47f2#d8a1becbc94b47a1a88b9dec003e47f2 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 09:33:29 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/d8a1becbc94b47a1a88b9dec003e47f2#d8a1becbc94b47a1a88b9dec003e47f2 Alex1537 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Alex1537/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/e7804aea9c264a2b91569dec003e4819#e7804aea9c264a2b91569dec003e4819 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:28:56 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/e7804aea9c264a2b91569dec003e4819#e7804aea9c264a2b91569dec003e4819 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
Alex1537 wrote:

Rubbish. Are you seriously suggesting that products such as the MacPro are "limited", with functionality sacrificed for the benefit of aesthetics?


Not quite. My point was that people are looking at Apple because it's looks easy and pretty - and they are forgetting the reason they use Windows in the first place. I get 2-3 customers a day saying "Why can't I install this PC game on my Mac?" or "Why won't this device work?" - and I say "Some companies won't spend money developing for a computer with a less-than 5% marketshare. That's why we recommend Windows."
...and then they run off crying at their bad choice. Well they should.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/3146b2ded87b4bc4b97e9dec003e4842#3146b2ded87b4bc4b97e9dec003e4842 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:37:20 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/3146b2ded87b4bc4b97e9dec003e4842#3146b2ded87b4bc4b97e9dec003e4842 intrepid 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/intrepid/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Gartner has access to all the sales figures and the projections are made after careful analysis of many companies manufacturing base and capital investment.

In 2005 you would have told us the Linux would be installed on 30% of desktops worldwide by the end of 2006.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/15ac3e1d057b4e0aaf3f9dec003e486a#15ac3e1d057b4e0aaf3f9dec003e486a Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:51:52 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/15ac3e1d057b4e0aaf3f9dec003e486a#15ac3e1d057b4e0aaf3f9dec003e486a eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Give us your graph....

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/7b34b095dfb1477c8a519dec003e4891#7b34b095dfb1477c8a519dec003e4891 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:04:00 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/7b34b095dfb1477c8a519dec003e4891#7b34b095dfb1477c8a519dec003e4891 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Graphs are pointless only if they don’t support your point.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/cf22653c798b4c6e8b139dec003e48b7#cf22653c798b4c6e8b139dec003e48b7 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:16:24 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/cf22653c798b4c6e8b139dec003e48b7#cf22653c798b4c6e8b139dec003e48b7 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
eagle wrote:
Gartner has access to all the sales figures and the projections are made after careful analysis of many companies manufacturing base and capital investment.

.



Who is manufacturing computers with Linux?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/c42e89855a84421680be9dec003e48e0#c42e89855a84421680be9dec003e48e0 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:32:12 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/c42e89855a84421680be9dec003e48e0#c42e89855a84421680be9dec003e48e0 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
thumbtacks wrote:
For instance, this graph assumes that Apple's marketshare will continue to drop (along with Linux). Where is the data for that? 


Actually, I don't think it does. A significant portion of Other will be Windows 9x and NT4 machines and they most likely will be tailoring off.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b0d89ac728b643fda8f39dec003e4908#b0d89ac728b643fda8f39dec003e4908 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:02:29 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/b0d89ac728b643fda8f39dec003e4908#b0d89ac728b643fda8f39dec003e4908 AndyC 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/AndyC/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Competition? I was at a Red Hat event in NYC yesterday, 40 people, maybe 20 PC laptops all with Widows except the Red Hat guy who had Fedora and he would only show me the browser. 

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/dbe761b1982740cbb4819dec003e492f#dbe761b1982740cbb4819dec003e492f Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:03:45 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/dbe761b1982740cbb4819dec003e492f#dbe761b1982740cbb4819dec003e492f eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. That graph may be wrong, but not for the reasons you would imagine Smiley

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/aeb363b08a6e483dbebc9dec003e4956#aeb363b08a6e483dbebc9dec003e4956 Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:09:19 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/aeb363b08a6e483dbebc9dec003e4956#aeb363b08a6e483dbebc9dec003e4956 PaoloM 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/PaoloM/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Yes, I expect Windows Next to be part of the equation by 2009.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/6664a776382746b3a1359dec003e497d#6664a776382746b3a1359dec003e497d Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:14:39 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/6664a776382746b3a1359dec003e497d#6664a776382746b3a1359dec003e497d eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
thumbtacks wrote:

eagle wrote: 
eagle wrote: Gartner has access to all the sales figures and the projections are made after careful analysis of many companies manufacturing base and capital investment.

.
Who is manufacturing computers with Linux?
Beercosoftware! Anyway, why would that even be necessary anyway? Sure it would be nice, though, but it's not difficult to pick up a secondary hard drive and install Linux on it. Dual boot is a little trickier for some, however. Say, have you ever tried installing a version of it? It helps sometimes to know what the competition is up to.


Er, who is Beercosoftware?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/1e16d26dda164dd495059dec003e49a8#1e16d26dda164dd495059dec003e49a8 Wed, 06 Dec 2006 04:11:27 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/1e16d26dda164dd495059dec003e49a8#1e16d26dda164dd495059dec003e49a8 ScanIAm 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/ScanIAm/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
intrepid wrote:


Not quite. My point was that people are looking at Apple because it's looks easy and pretty - and they are forgetting the reason they use Windows in the first place. I get 2-3 customers a day saying "Why can't I install this PC game on my Mac?" or "Why won't this device work?" - and I say "Some companies won't spend money developing for a computer with a less-than 5% marketshare. That's why we recommend Windows."
...and then they run off crying at their bad choice. Well they should.


Fair point, but surely with the arrival of Bootcamp/Parallels, the sales pitch becomes more interesting?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/cb937ea1a31b4ffc9eae9dec003e49d1#cb937ea1a31b4ffc9eae9dec003e49d1 Wed, 06 Dec 2006 08:06:29 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/cb937ea1a31b4ffc9eae9dec003e49d1#cb937ea1a31b4ffc9eae9dec003e49d1 Alex1537 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Alex1537/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
ScanIAm wrote:

thumbtacks wrote:
eagle wrote: 
eagle wrote: Gartner has access to all the sales figures and the projections are made after careful analysis of many companies manufacturing base and capital investment.

.
Who is manufacturing computers with Linux?
Beercosoftware! Anyway, why would that even be necessary anyway? Sure it would be nice, though, but it's not difficult to pick up a secondary hard drive and install Linux on it. Dual boot is a little trickier for some, however. Say, have you ever tried installing a version of it? It helps sometimes to know what the competition is up to.


Er, who is Beercosoftware?



Speaking of Beer28, I visited BeerCo today as you piqued my curiousity. They've recently started developing Windows Apps due to customer demand.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/f0fb2ce04385453381a99dec003e49fd#f0fb2ce04385453381a99dec003e49fd Wed, 06 Dec 2006 09:14:29 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/f0fb2ce04385453381a99dec003e49fd#f0fb2ce04385453381a99dec003e49fd Massif 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Massif/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
Massif wrote:

ScanIAm wrote: 
thumbtacks wrote: 
eagle wrote: 
eagle wrote: Gartner has access to all the sales figures and the projections are made after careful analysis of many companies manufacturing base and capital investment.

.
Who is manufacturing computers with Linux?
Beercosoftware! Anyway, why would that even be necessary anyway? Sure it would be nice, though, but it's not difficult to pick up a secondary hard drive and install Linux on it. Dual boot is a little trickier for some, however. Say, have you ever tried installing a version of it? It helps sometimes to know what the competition is up to.


Er, who is Beercosoftware?


Speaking of Beer28, I visited BeerCo today as you piqued my curiousity. They've recently started developing Windows Apps due to customer demand.
Whoa. What triggered that?

Expressionless

Now that's gotta be depressing (for him)...

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/f978f8fa44174e5ab3299dec003e4a2b#f978f8fa44174e5ab3299dec003e4a2b Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:33:46 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/f978f8fa44174e5ab3299dec003e4a2b#f978f8fa44174e5ab3299dec003e4a2b Cornelius Ellsonpeter 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Cornelius Ellsonpeter/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. Ack don't mention him three times or he'll come back

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/1475536afab94f49b4b29dec003e4a53#1475536afab94f49b4b29dec003e4a53 Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:47:40 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/1475536afab94f49b4b29dec003e4a53#1475536afab94f49b4b29dec003e4a53 blowdart 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/blowdart/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day.
blowdart wrote:
Ack don't mention him three times or he'll come back


Can you imagine the flame wars that would come about when everyone started taking the mick about you-know-who developing Windows software?

*Shudder*

Herbie

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/1d3d293e2f8b4d09b08e9dec003e4a7b#1d3d293e2f8b4d09b08e9dec003e4a7b Wed, 06 Dec 2006 14:01:41 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/1d3d293e2f8b4d09b08e9dec003e4a7b#1d3d293e2f8b4d09b08e9dec003e4a7b Herbie Smith 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Dr Herbie/Discussions/RSS Coffeehouse - Slightly depressing day. I guess I'll be seeing you know who in Denver at the next Microsoft Partners conference along with several Mac's running Windows Vista.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/28d04d7e758f47888b009dec003e4aa2#28d04d7e758f47888b009dec003e4aa2 Wed, 06 Dec 2006 14:24:50 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250513-Slightly-depressing-day/28d04d7e758f47888b009dec003e4aa2#28d04d7e758f47888b009dec003e4aa2 eagle 65 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/eagle/Discussions/RSS