Germany Banning First Person Shooter Games?

I saw this on Engadget:

[Link]

Which linked to this:

[Link]

What do you think? I am no gamer, but I think it is pretty drastic to ban all of a certain style of games just because one person who played them went on a shooting spree. I wonder if this will become a law.

Angus Higgins

Angus wrote:

I saw this on Engadget:

[Link]

Which linked to this:

[Link]

What do you think? I am no gamer, but I think it is pretty drastic to ban all of a certain style of games just because one person who played them went on a shooting spree. I wonder if this will become a law.

Angus Higgins

this is part of the legacy of WWII and things that happend back then.

may be too broad and somewhat overreacting in some ways..

I'd reather see the focus shifted but it's a touchy subject.

I was visiting friends in Torgau when 18 people were killed at a school in Erfurt.

It's easy to blame the Amerikanische videospiele.

They may stop sales in shops, but the games will go on.

littleguru wrote:

The current discussion has absolutely nothing to do with World War 2. Really nothing.

Really? are you sure?

from what I have read about in the past there is a lot in german law that stems from WWII and the fear of any return to anything like that time.

while this may not be directly linked I'd bet that there is a relationship.

Hey I'm not wanting to drag this topic into some WWII thing but just to point out that there are laws there on Games,Movies etc... that all tend to ban / limit any form of killing / human abuse / etc...

that all started with the events of that war.

be that as it may:


blaming a movie, game, song for the actions of a person or group is lame.  it's sad when some person / group acts out some crazy act of violence.... but just cause they saw a movie or played a game does not IMHO excuse there acts or responciblity for there acts.

littleguru wrote:


I'm sure it has nothing to do with WW2. I have german TV here at university and they never ever made the connection between WW2 and this current idea for a law.

It's true that symbols of the Thirth Reich are not allowed in Germany. That means also games, moves, ... including those symbols, although it isn't handled that hard anymore.

The current idea for the law has more to do with the guy that run amok at a school. He used to play a lot Counter Strike and other FPS in his free time and some policitians think that there is a connection between that and his suicide...

The current proposal has nothing to do with WWII, but Germany's strict laws on media are, in fact, a direct result of WWII. This is just an offshoot of that, caused by the Erfurt tragedy.

eagle wrote:

It's easy to blame the Amerikanische videospiele.

I may not know German, but I know the word American when I see it.

I wonder what this law would do to game studios in Germany, because there are some great studios there.

littleguru wrote:


I'm sure it has nothing to do with WW2. I have german TV here at university and they never ever made the connection between WW2 and this current idea for a law.

That's true. There never have been any links to ww2 in the news as far as i know.

littleguru wrote:


It's true that symbols of the Thirth Reich are not allowed in Germany. That means also games, moves, ... including those symbols, although it isn't handled that hard anymore.

There are only exceptions for movies and other forms of art and educational material that stay true to the dark ww2 history of germany and do not glorify the third reich in any way (there are a lot of other criteria but all are related to this). So games that are glorifying violence against humans may be sold only on a very restricted basis and games glorifying the third reich are - thank god - banned completely. there is already some form of censorship regarding violence in movies and games in germany. some politicians even say the existing laws are sufficient to ban violent video games. However, in practice it doesn't seem that this claim is true.

littleguru wrote:


It has really nothing to do with WW2. Rather the educational system in Germany is a little bit faulty. There are two types of schools: one is good the other is bad. Your degrees in the very basic school (ground school) decides where you go. If you aren't that good you have no way to go to university anymore. That is already decided when you are very very young. There are so much people that are young (16+) and know they have no chance to get a good payed job!

The first decision is made at the age of ca. 10. Not every decision must be etched in stone, though, at that age. Our former chancellor schröder didn't go the "straight-to-university" way in the first place. There are other ways to achieve a university degree, too. you can get quite high up the ladder even if you don't take the "high class" route in your early days. you're a bit wrong there, littleguru. No offence, though.

Littleguru's point is valid, but only to a certain degree and in this case only to a very low degree: WW2 has quite an impact on modern legistlature in germany. Part of these laws originate from the first years of post-war germany and were given to the germans by the allied forces government. But even today the parliament is very senstive to things that might contribute to radicalization in any way. it is not far fetched to assume hat this piece of legislature (there might be a proposal in the not too distant future in at least one german state) is somehow linked to ww2. I really believe - and nothing points in that direction - that this is not the case in the recent push towards such a law.

As a personal note i really could imagine a piece of law being passed that abolishes creating, selling, owning and playing games that display violence against humans. This would only be one step ahead of what we have today in germany. These type of games can already be "placed on the index" which means there may be no advertising of these games and no "open sale" to minors. The political climate right now is also in favor of laws of that nature: both the two largest parties form the government right now so a bill would be quite easy to pass which would normally face quite a bit of resistance from the opposition.

Anyways, the state of bavaria would be the first to pass such a piece of law, i suspect. if it's passed in bavaria chances are good that it will become a federal law at some point of time.

I don't really believe in the process of abolishing some sorts of games (have been a quake player for a long time myself), but you nevery really know in germany. The interesting question really is whether other countries in the european union would join this movement or not. If not, germany stands isolated and the federal bill wouldn't have so much of an impact. If the eropean union decides to demand a piece of law being passed by each member country things are different.. Right now i don't foresee something like that (in fact, it seens very unlikely.. we would also be talking years in that case).

Just my 2c .. a bit more than 2c, i know..

cheers,
martin

Playing violent FPS games is not a cause, it is a symptom.  Someone that is going to pick up a gun and kill other people are going to do it whether they played violent games or not.  On the other hand we have millions of people that play violent FPS games that do not pick up a gun and shoot other people.  Including myself.  I am no more likely to kill anyone today than what I was before I started playing these games.  You either have it in you or you don't.

And may we remind people that there have been similar instances of shooting like these before FPS games even existed.

So basically as far as I am concerned, these people are just trying to blame the wrong thing.  I think it is absolutely more likely that people that would go on a shooting rampage would also be more likely to play violent FPS games, but they were violent in real life before the FPS games, so it is more of an coincidence than a cause.

Really, are people that blind?

BitFlipper

BitFlipper wrote:

Playing violent FPS games is not a cause, it is a symptom.  Someone that is going to pick up a gun and kill other people are going to do it whether they played violent games or not.  On the other hand we have millions of people that play violent FPS games that do not pick up a gun and shoot other people.  Including myself.  I am no more likely to kill anyone today than what I was before I started playing these games.  You either have it in you or you don't.

And may we remind people that there have been similar instances of shooting like these before FPS games even existed.

So basically as far as I am concerned, these people are just trying to blame the wrong thing.  I think it is absolutely more likely that people that would go on a shooting rampage would also be more likely to play violent FPS games, but they were violent in real life before the FPS games, so it is more of an coincidence than a cause.

Really, are people that blind?

BitFlipper

EDIT: Before there were FPS games, these same types of people were the ones that would torture and kill animals.  For instance, there are horror stories about kittens being used as baseballs, etc.  I'd rather these people get rid of their anger using a FPS instead hurting anything  alive.  Yes, I know, "Save the Kittens" sounds corny but it really bugs me that there can be people doing things like that.

EDIT EDIT:  Sorry, I hit quote instead of edit...

littleguru wrote:


I know Schröder. But there are only few people over there that have the possibilities to do it in a second way. Most people fail... If you watch certain reports (Spiegel TV, Focus TV) you will see that most have no possibilities.
I know also an university professor, who is teaching in Augsburg. He is doing everything to get his children into "Gymnasium" (the better school). He said so many times that if they don't make it in that school it's getting very hard for them to get a decent job.

You're right there. It is very hard to achieve the same degree of university education if you don't take the "right" route at the age of ~10. Also there are numerous studies in germany that found that the level of education you can achieve is proportional to the sophistication of your social background in certain areas of germany which is really underlining your point, littleguru. things are that drastic in some areas as you pointed out correctly.
just as another sidenote: don't take spiegeltv or especially focustv as the pure truth. they all want to transport a certain message in their stories.
i didn't want to prove you wrong in your statements about education, littleguru, because in theory there are various ways to achieve a good education in germany, in practice there's really only one that counts. basically i only disagree on the link to ww2.

ahaha, fear me - dangerous maniac coz I have already killed thousands of ppl in fps games

More German government social engineering nonsense.

Looks like a conspiracy to me!

Just go to the following site: www.answers.com/
 
Do a search for the following topic:

National Socialist German Workers Party

Then search for link to IGN.

IGN is now a division of Fox Interactive Media (FIM), which includes MySpace.com, foxnews.com, and several other properties owned by News Corp. FIM is not to be confused with "Fox Interactive," which is the (functionally discontinued) video game publishing branch of 20th Century Fox.
http://www.answers.com/topic/goldman-sachs-networking-index-fund

raymond wrote:



More German government social engineering nonsense.

Looks like a conspiracy to me!

Just go to the following site: www.answers.com/
 
Do a search for the following topic:

National Socialist German Workers Party

Then search for link to IGN.

IGN is now a division of Fox Interactive Media (FIM), which includes MySpace.com, foxnews.com, and several other properties owned by News Corp. FIM is not to be confused with "Fox Interactive," which is the (functionally discontinued) video game publishing branch of 20th Century Fox.
http://www.answers.com/topic/goldman-sachs-networking-index-fund

Now, what exactly does IGN have to do with the N@zis?

Google:

N*zis IGN