why do we need women in IT?

My course has an ethics module which we all have to do and lately the discussion came across women in IT.

So far no one has been able to give me a good enough reason why we "actually" need more women entering the IT industry. 

Now don't get me wrong, i have no problem with women being in the IT industry, my mum works for the NHS IT department and some of my best friends are women who are quite amazing programmers and computing technicians.  But what i don't understand is the huge pushes for women to enter the IT industry.

Talking with some of the women who take CS courses along with me, they actually tend to agree with my view that this push is unworthy.  They tend to say that alot of other women (which, well, isn't many) on their courses are actually pretty rubbish at it.

The arguements so far that i have come across are: 

1. There is a drop in the amount of people (men?) taking IT courses so getting women in would increase the workforce
2. they add a different perspective

ok well 1)  well fi theres a drop in people taking it, shouldn't we be targetting everyone and not just women because there aren't any women in it to begin with

and 2) I have seen nothing to indicate that they add any new perspective, though perhaps my range of interaction with women is limited.

I must reiterate again i have no problem with women in the IT industry, i welcome them to join us geeks, but i just don't feel there is a required need for a push for them to join us.

here's a choice quote from E.roberts, "expanding the audience for computer science" in Proc. thiry fourth sigcse tech. symp. on computer science education. new york: acm press, 2003

journal wrote:

greater diversity among those wo create computing technology ensures that those technologies are relevant to and usable by a wider range of people"

The push for Women in I.T. is purely a political correctness move that has no real basis in necessity. Women have always been in I.T., you can track it all the way back to the first mainframes when a lot of the really cool technologies started appearing.

The reason for the lack of women in I.T. is social, there is nothing limiting them that I'm aware of and as far as I can tell most of the industry has great respect for our female counterparts.

As I said the only reason is to give the appearance of a balanced workforce nothing more, nothing less.

PS - Women might bring a slightly different viewpoint to the table but as I said Women are and have always been in I.T. so this viewpoint is already catered for.

I supposed for the same reasons we need more men in nursing care? Men are highly under-represented there. Everyone panic. There are two parts of the "problem": recruitment and retention. Do a quick search for "Why are women leaving the IT industry?" and you'll find many recent articles. It's definitely a two-way street.

Jaz wrote:



journal wrote: greater diversity among those wo create computing technology ensures that those technologies are relevant to and usable by a wider range of people"

Maybe we should add a shield and spear/hand mirror and comb icons to all technology so it is made clear which gender they're designed by and for?

Or maybe we should wakeup to the fact that a human is a human is a human and that most technology is unisex.

ManipUni wrote:



Or maybe we should wakeup to the fact that a human is a human is a human and that most technology is unisex.

I think many psychologists would disagree -- there are some differences between masculine and feminine brains that could impact on technology. For example, feminine brains tend towards better verbal communication, masculine brains tend towards better spatial awareness.  These could impact on whether a UI has the broadest ease of use, or whether it is inherently bias towards one or the other.

We should note, however, that you will find men with feminised brains and women with masculinised brains, so it's not as simple as 'positive discrimination' (see they even have a pollitically correct term for it!) for women in the IT industry.

Let the best person for the job get the job and ignore sex/race/culture.  Things will even out in the end.


Herbie

ManipUni wrote:



Jaz wrote: journal wrote: greater diversity among those wo create computing technology ensures that those technologies are relevant to and usable by a wider range of people"

Maybe we should add a shield and spear/hand mirror and comb icons to all technology so it is made clear which gender they're designed by and for?

Or maybe we should wakeup to the fact that a human is a human is a human and that most technology is unisex.

I have 2 ladies in my team at work and feel that they do at times think about things differently to the guys, and give a different perspective on things. I also have guys in my team that think differently at times. Can you see the pattern? It takes all types.

I enjoy the ladies being there from a purely social aspect, it's nice to be able to work and live is a similar cross section to real life. As far as the work side they to me are just another one of my team with great skills and ideas.

The basic premise behind such affirmative action campaigns is that the reason there are so few women in IT isn't that they are unsuited to it, but that decades and centuries of western culture have oriented women away from technological pursuits. The point is to remove the cultural and social bias by encouraging women who are suited to tech to work in it.

You know Jaz, if you were to substitute the words blacks, jews, indians or even minorities in your statement it would sound just like the statements that many of those people make.  Not that I'm saying you're anywhere near like them, the fact remains that it's a dangerous way of thinking.

Typically when people who work together "look" alike whether they all be male or a certain race or religion, they typically band together and think the same.  There are exceptions of course but that's just the way it happens.  People are more comfortable with people who look and sound like themselves.  

In order for IT to grow we need a good mix of people of all types including different sexes.  Males and females approach problems differently and that's the nature of science, to solve a problem. 

Lastly, we definitely need more women in IT, I'm sick of looking at you "guys"![A]

Why? Are you serious?

Because sometimes even work, which you love, sucks. For many reasons such as stupid PM, stupid customer, stupid project, annoying task, etc.

But if you have nice IT-woman in office (or woman in IT-office)... Eah... Live is not so bad, man!

Jaz wrote:

I must reiterate again i have no problem with women in the IT industry, i welcome them to join us geeks, but i just don't feel there is a required need for a push for them to join us.

I agree. But you shouldn't assume there is a real push. Isn't it just talk designed to keep some people happy? (I'm talking about the UK not the USA where "positive discrimination" is used quite a bit, though I haven't heard it used for women entering IT courses.)

Blkbam wrote:



You know Jaz, if you were to substitute the words blacks, jews, indians or even minorities in your statement it would sound just like the statements that many of those people make.  Not that I'm saying you're anywhere near like them, the fact remains that it's a dangerous way of thinking.

Damn that was racist... :O
 

My answer to this question is less "measurable" and more based upon my experience as a Development Lead.  It isn't based upon some neo-conservatives fear of Political Correctness, or other crap.

Women who program, in my experience, have often unique insights into a problem. It's common place to have my team look at something and say "let's do it in this manner (A)" and the woman of the team say something like, "Ok.. But did you think about (B)?" and presenting other options (some of which are better).

Sure, this might be my own experience, and there are probably men out there which could think of the same thing.. But Diversity amongst a team has really been a value. I'd hire someone with a different race or sex over another if they're in the minority: not for PC reasons, but because of the different points of view.

And, before the conservative freaks come out (yes, you know I'm talking about you), I'd hire a white male over another person from India, if my team was all Indians (or mostly Indians). Or if they were all women. etc.. you get the drift.

ManipUni wrote:



Blkbam wrote:  You know Jaz, if you were to substitute the words blacks, jews, indians or even minorities in your statement it would sound just like the statements that many of those people make.  Not that I'm saying you're anywhere near like them, the fact remains that it's a dangerous way of thinking.

Damn that was racist...
 

Then by that logic it would make Jaz's comments sexist.

Because men (and I've studied this over several years) are arseholes.

And I am one. (a man, and an arsehole. woo!)

In all seriousness though, I don't think women need to be encouraged into IT, but we do need to do some work on the perception of the jobs that IT covers so as not to discourage women.

Some of the best people I've worked with have been women. (Francesca Collodo, you finally get a mention on thar intarwebs )

ManipUni wrote:



Blkbam wrote:  You know Jaz, if you were to substitute the words blacks, jews, indians or even minorities in your statement it would sound just like the statements that many of those people make.  Not that I'm saying you're anywhere near like them, the fact remains that it's a dangerous way of thinking.

Damn that was racist...
 

No, saying the Jews are responsible for starting every war is racist, liquor or no liquor..

i'm unsure how to defend myself here if people are gonna start calling me racist or sexist.

i didn't mean this thread to become either of those, i just wished for a discussion on the subject