Channel 9 Forums - Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 23:47:07 GMT

I just saw a secret Microsoft project that I can't talk about (I was shown it in confidence by a Microsoft executive who was NOT named Ray Ozzie ). But, it's the kind of small thing that I was hoping to see at Mix that'd demonstrate that Microsoft has a Web strategy.

The thing I saw today, alone, isn't enough to be able to say Microsoft has a Web strategy (we gotta see several other things drop into place to be able to see that) but it IS enough to say that I'm excited about going to Mix07 now.

You going?

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Bas — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 23:52:55 GMT

Well, that's a great.. tease.

Anyway, no. But I expect round the clock reporting for the geographically challenged.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Larsenal — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 23:53:58 GMT

Must win REMIX contest.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 23:57:31 GMT

Bas wrote:

Anyway, no. But I expect round the clock reporting for the geographically challenged.

http://twittervision.com/ is the answer.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Zian Choy — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 00:17:48 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

Bas wrote: Anyway, no. But I expect round the clock reporting for the geographically challenged.

http://twittervision.com/ is the answer.

Ahhh! Not that time killer again!

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

W3bbo — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 00:22:58 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

I just saw a secret Microsoft project that I can't talk about (I was shown it in confidence by a Microsoft executive who was NOT named Ray Ozzie . But, it's the kind of small thing that I was hoping to see at Mix that'd demonstrate that Microsoft has a Web strategy.

I know exactly what that strategy is, and quite frankly I don't think it'll work. It looks to those inside Microsoft (and their sycophants) as something original to counter the gains made by {a certain company} after their initial approach in 2001 (which won them many fans, btw), but I see it as yet another contrived and poorly-conceived service. It'll go the same way as the Zune, after a year it'll drift into obscurity and be long forgotten.

Microsoft did something similar to this "strategy" in 1999 with Hotmail, I never really saw how it ended (but I know it didn't end spectacularly well either)

Scoble, methinks you need to fire up your ability to criticise Microsoft again, I don't know how you can say this demonstrates Microsoft has a working web strategy.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Minh — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 00:29:24 GMT

W3bbo wrote:

I know exactly what that strategy is...

Is it a mineral, animal, or vegetable?

Is it bigger than a bread box?

Is it bread?

Is it a box?

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

JChung2006 — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 01:00:17 GMT

Web 2.0's played out. People need better things to buy, not better ways to buy things.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

PaoloM — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:11:52 GMT

W3bbo wrote:

RobertScoble wrote: I just saw a secret Microsoft project that I can't talk about (I was shown it in confidence by a Microsoft executive who was NOT named Ray Ozzie . But, it's the kind of small thing that I was hoping to see at Mix that'd demonstrate that Microsoft has a Web strategy.

I know exactly what that strategy is, and quite frankly I don't think it'll work. It looks to those inside Microsoft (and their sycophants) as something original to counter the gains made by {a certain company} after their initial approach in 2001 (which won them many fans, btw), but I see it as yet another contrived and poorly-conceived service. It'll go the same way as the Zune, after a year it'll drift into obscurity and be long forgotten.

Microsoft did something similar to this "strategy" in 1999 with Hotmail, I never really saw how it ended (but I know it didn't end spectacularly well either)

Scoble, methinks you need to fire up your ability to criticise Microsoft again, I don't know how you can say this demonstrates Microsoft has a working web strategy.

Feel free to explain what this "strategy" is, please.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Charles — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:16:09 GMT

Yes, Mix is going to be very interesting. It's more about mingling with peers who work on diverse projects in diverse ways than it is about Microsoft spraying product marketing all over you. Plus, you'll finally get to hear what Ozzie has been noodling on for so long...

Come on down. You will be pleasantly surprised with what Mix enables...

C

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:18:45 GMT

>Anyway, what are you talking about?

I can't say, sorry. I was shown in confidence and the person showing it to me didn't have approval to show it to me.

I seriously doubt anyone else outside of Microsoft has seen it. Certainly not W3bbo. It's not a copy of something anyone else has done.

I'll tell you what it was at Mix.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:22:03 GMT

>
Microsoft did something similar to this "strategy" in 1999 with Hotmail, I never really saw how it ended (but I know it didn't end spectacularly well either)

What I saw today is NOT a strategy. It's just a neat "little" thing. If I see six more "little" things like the one I saw today, THEN we might call it a "strategy."

As to how Hotmail ended? In the past 30 days about 200 million people have used Hotmail.

I wish +I+ had a few strategies that ended that way.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

ddewbofh — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:27:51 GMT

Didn't hotmail just change it's name to Windows Live Hotmail or did I miss something?

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:31:34 GMT

>I've been one of the most vocal about the lengths he's recently gone to slam us.

Microsoft has deep problems. If you think it doesn't, just read http://minimsft.blogspot.com/ sometime.

Attacking me will make you feel better, but it won't make those problems go away.

Great to know you'll kiss me everytime I say something nice about Microsoft and pull out the attack guns everytime I say something nasty.

Personally, I'll call them as I see them. Sometimes Microsoft sucks, sometimes it is brilliant.

I'm still hoping I see a real Internet strategy. Today's secret demo was a small start, but a long way from competing with Google and with the startup culture that even Ballmer is worried about (cause it continues to run away from Microsoft's platforms).

Robert Scoble
http://www.scobleshow.com (Star developer Joel Spolsky is on my show today).

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:37:08 GMT

Charles wrote:

Plus, you'll finally get to hear what Ozzie has been noodling on for so long...C

How can you be sure that his team is going to be finished by then? I sure hope he doesn't get pressure to come out with unfinished code.

Microsoft made that mistake with Longhorn (hyping it up before it was really ready to be hyped up). I was wrong to take part in that, but I really didn't know just how bad it was. From looking at the demos I thought it was ready. I, and others, are going to be far more skeptical the next time around.

I know Ray's team is working hard to remain quiet until they have real code to ship. But, anyone in development knows how hard it is to really nail a date. Since Mix was planned a long time ago, I don't want Ray to feel pressure to talk about something that's vapor. If he does, he'll really blow his team's chances at getting the world's attention.

That all said, I really hope he hits a grand slam home run at Mix. If he doesn't, there will definitely be chatter about Microsoft's Internet Strategy failures yet again. No matter how pissed Rory gets.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Charles — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:42:40 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

Charles wrote: Plus, you'll finally get to hear what Ozzie has been noodling on for so long...C

How can you be sure that his team is going to be finished by then? I sure hope he doesn't get pressure to come out with unfinished code.

Microsoft made that mistake with Longhorn (hyping it up before it was really ready to be hyped up). I was wrong to take part in that, but I really didn't know just how bad it was. From looking at the demos I thought it was ready. I, and others, are going to be far more skeptical the next time around.

I know Ray's team is working hard to remain quiet until they have real code to ship. But, anyone in development knows how hard it is to really nail a date. Since Mix was planned a long time ago, I don't want Ray to feel pressure to talk about something that's vapor. If he does, he'll really blow his team's chances at getting the world's attention.

That all said, I really hope he hits a grand slam home run at Mix. If he doesn't, there will definitely be chatter about Microsoft's Internet Strategy failures yet again. No matter how pissed Rory gets.

It won't be an empty keynote... Obviously, nobody talks about technologies that aren't ready to be disclosed publicly. My point is that Ozzie will speak and when he does it won't be vaportalk...

C

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Rory — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:43:32 GMT

W3bbo wrote:

RobertScoble wrote: I just saw a secret Microsoft project that I can't talk about (I was shown it in confidence by a Microsoft executive who was NOT named Ray Ozzie . But, it's the kind of small thing that I was hoping to see at Mix that'd demonstrate that Microsoft has a Web strategy.

I know exactly what that strategy is, and quite frankly I don't think it'll work. It looks to those inside Microsoft (and their sycophants) as something original to counter the gains made by {a certain company} after their initial approach in 2001 (which won them many fans, btw), but I see it as yet another contrived and poorly-conceived service. It'll go the same way as the Zune, after a year it'll drift into obscurity and be long forgotten.

Microsoft did something similar to this "strategy" in 1999 with Hotmail, I never really saw how it ended (but I know it didn't end spectacularly well either)

Scoble, methinks you need to fire up your ability to criticise Microsoft again, I don't know how you can say this demonstrates Microsoft has a working web strategy.

Uh... Scoble has been criticizing Microsoft lately.

I've been one of the most vocal about the lengths he's recently gone to slam us.

Frankly, I find this message very welcome. There's already enough crap going on.

Anyway, what are you talking about? It's the end of the day, my brain is dead from a long day (and night), and I'm not doing a good job of guessing...

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:47:41 GMT

>Obviously, nobody talks about technologies that aren't ready to be disclosed publicly.

You forget PDC 2003. In hindsight those technologies (WinFS, which was later killed). And others, were discussed. Oh, and the PDC in 2001 where Hailstorm was discussed. In hindsight if Microsoft had kept developing Hailstorm (with a freaking better name) it might have had a great answer to Amazon's S3, which is taking the startup world by storm right now.

Robert Scoble

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:52:57 GMT

>It won't be an empty keynote

I hope not, but Ray is adept at giving speeches where he doesn't really say anything. He did one about a month ago in Silicon Valley.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:56:25 GMT

>As you know, PDC is about potential future.

Of course, but Mix is sorta the same thing. It's about a potential future. The future IS on the Internet. That's why I've been poking Microsoft so hard for not having a good strategy.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Charles — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:59:43 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

>Obviously, nobody talks about technologies that aren't ready to be disclosed publicly.

You forget PDC 2003. In hindsight those technologies (WinFS, which was later killed). And others, were discussed. Oh, and the PDC in 2001 where Hailstorm was discussed. In hindsight if Microsoft had kept developing Hailstorm (with a freaking better name) it might have had a great answer to Amazon's S3, which is taking the startup world by storm right now.

Robert Scoble

As you know, PDC is about potential future. It's about being transparent with what we're thinking, cooking up. We don't make promises in stone at PDC. That's not the point of the event. Developers who program on our platform are given insight into where our technologies are heading, as opposed to being given absolute roadmaps. It's always been this way.

C

PS: I am driving a symposium for PDC07 that will focus on an industry problem and dive into how we are approaching various solutions to it... PDC is about the future. Plans are meant to be changed, especially in this industry, but the hard problems remain. Longhorn was a very hard problem, rife with complexities that were incongruent with ship date requirements...

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Charles — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:05:49 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

>As you know, PDC is about potential future.

Of course, but Mix is sorta the same thing. It's about a potential future. The future IS on the Internet. That's why I've been poking Microsoft so hard for not having a good strategy.

MIX is quite different, actually, in many ways. For one thing, technologies shown at MIX are very close to coming out of the oven or at least not poised for radical re-architecture in the face of Reality. Further, Microsoft is only one of the many companies presenting solutions to Internet-related problems (and solutions to some of these problems span platforms)... I wouldn't compare the two events. It's not meaningful.

Come down to MIX. See for yourself. Then, of course, come to PDC07.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Rory — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:17:59 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

>I've been one of the most vocal about the lengths he's recently gone to slam us.

Microsoft has deep problems. If you think it doesn't, just read http://minimsft.blogspot.com/ sometime.

You need to remove the strawman tactic from your formula. I never said Microsoft didn't have problems, dumbshoes. I'm not one of your sycophantic little puppy dog readers - I'm actually going to think about what you write rather than just accept it.

Also, thanks for the link. I never would have thought to go to one of the most widely read Microsoft blogs in the universe without you guiding me there (now, if I ever mention it, you can take credit for having introduced me to the site - I know how much you like to take credit for things ).

RobertScoble wrote:

Attacking me will make you feel better, but it won't make those problems go away.

Dude. I wasn't attacking you.

If I were going to attack you, I'd probably say something like this:

For the love of God, please stop wearing pleated pants. They make you look silly, which, combined with the way you conduct yourself, is not a good thing.

As for "those problems" - what are they? Could you list them? Could you give us solutions? I mean, something besides "Ship!" (we already know that one - we've been slow around here, but not totally effing stupid).

Wait - I'm sorry. After our last exchange, a lot of people came up to me in various hallways at Microsoft and commented on how interesting it was to watch you freeze and stutter out irrelevant drivel each time I said something intelligent to you (I'm surprised you haven't told me yet how many blogs you read - that's an integral part of your arguments around the net).

With that in mind, I'll expend the energy to bring myself down to your level:

I've got the feeling that Podtech has deep problems. You've already told us about how expensive it is to ship videos. On top of it, you invented (and mastered) the "long-form" video, which no doubt costs much more to deliver than a "short-form" video (these silly terms are how I can tell you're a marketing doof at heart).

What is Podtech's five year plan? You have one, right? At the very least, it would be a fun exercise in thought. Perhaps not terribly practical, though. At this rate, you probably won't need a five year plan.

Now, a five month plan would be good. Or, given your masterful ability to spot corporate problems and then solve them, perhaps a five minute plan brought to us by the great revolutionary thinker, Robert Scoble!

I'm waiting, yo.

And, if you don't think Podtech has deep problems, you should try reading that one little piece you wrote in which you talked about how tough it is to squeeze money out of video.

There.

That's attacking.

What I did earlier in the thread was a sort of olive branch. I came and defended you because you were doing the hard thing - saying something positive. Anybody can trash something (and Podtech is such an easy target that it worked well for the demonstration), but it takes a lot of work to be positive instead.

Being positive is what I thought you were up to, but apparently you can insult 70,000 people at the same time, but they can't defend themselves against your comprehensive analysis of the depths of their troubles ("Your strategy is teh sux0rz!! roffolol!!!" - we have our best people working around the clock to figure out just what exactly it was you were trying to say).

I also thought you might like it if someone came along and helped out. Nothing wrong with that. And, I really did feel that the snarky comments were out of line given that you were being a nice guy.

As it pleases you, I'll never come to your defense again. I'll always assume that you'll never forget the spankings I gave to you in front of the rest of the universe earlier this month. Given how quick you are to dish it out, I never would have expected you to be so sensitive. Sorry, little buddy

RobertScoble wrote:

Great to know you'll kiss me everytime I say something nice about Microsoft and pull out the attack guns everytime I say something nasty.

For the record, it was a post about Microsoft that pushed me over the edge, but it wasn't just for Microsoft that I came out and called you on your lame tabloid writing.

What bothers me is how irresponsible you are, given that you're #9 on Forbes' web celebrity list. Whether you deserve it or not, there are a lot of eyes on you, and each time you write something so bloody stupid, somebody, somewhere, is going to feel like crap. There are people on the other end of your attacks, you moron.

About the change of heart - I was genuinely pleased to see you come here and say something positive instead of trying to boost your traffic some more with the garbage you'd been spewing previously.

You can say "bad" things about Microsoft, but you had better be sure that what you're saying is intelligent and well thought out. You wrote the "Bat Boy!" of tech posts. It was useless. It was an emotional plea to nobody in particular. It couldn't have been any lamer.

You can also say "good" things about Microsoft, and most of the time I'll ignore you. When I replied in your thread today, it was all about trying to show that, when you behave yourself, I'm willing to give you a Scooble Treat.

You're no different, by the by. When someone criticizes you, you come out far worse than anybody I could imagine. You have to protect your ego on all fronts. It's disturbing. I called you on your idiotic post, and the argument I got back was that you "read" some 1,500 blogs a day or whatever (which might explain why you think what you're writing is hard hitting journalism).

Like I said: disturbing.

RobertScoble wrote:

Personally, I'll call them as I see them. Sometimes Microsoft sucks, sometimes it is brilliant.

You aren't qualified.

RobertScoble wrote:

http://www.scobleshow.com (Star developer Joel Spolsky is on my show today).

What does that have to do with anything?

I'm glad to know he's going to be on, and I look forward to watching the interview, but that's about as relevant right now as the number of posts you read before getting out of bed this morning.

Anyway, I'm going to go now. I have some fresh mango that I'd like to eat (see - I can also provide irrelevant info), and I'm going to watch the latest episode of Lost.

I'll check back later to see if you've written to tell me about how many feeds you watch, or about how I don't think Microsoft is in trouble (or whatever other words you'd like to put in my mouth).

Peace, dawgg.

I love you.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Dimmy Joolittle — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 04:11:56 GMT

Why are Microsoft employees fighting on a public forum? How weird.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

PaoloM — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 04:26:07 GMT

Dimmy Joolittle wrote:

Why are Microsoft employees fighting on a public forum? How weird.

Which Microsoft employees are fighting?

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 04:31:32 GMT

Dimmy Joolittle wrote:

Why are Microsoft employees fighting on a public forum? How weird.

I haven't been a Microsoft employee since July of 2006.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Dimmy Joolittle — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 04:51:56 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

Dimmy Joolittle wrote: Why are Microsoft employees fighting on a public forum? How weird.

I haven't been a Microsoft employee since July of 2006.

Oh, okay. Sorry about that. Thanks for clearing that up.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

jason818_253.33 — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 05:06:24 GMT

Scoble, i think your post is reffreshing. a nice change from last weeks rants. or was that this week. it all starts to run together.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Larsenal — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 05:14:13 GMT

C9 Park Transcript

Scoble: ~~Mix07 is going to be cool.~~ I know something you don't know.

W3bbo: I know something too.

[6] Scoble: Shutup, kid! Your kind wouldn't have access to this secret.

[A] Rory: [ implied: Unlike Scoble, I tend to punctuate sentences properly. ]

Charles: Horay for Mix07!!!

[6] Scoble: Did I say something positive about Microsoft? Oops! I mean... eh... it's all going to be vaporware, just like everything at PDC 03.

Charles: Um, no.

Rory: Whatchya doing back in my kitchen, Scoble? You know you can't handle the heat. (Also, insert something here about Podtech not being awesome.)

[A] Scoble: Podtech is the next Google, and I know no hubris.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 05:28:07 GMT

>Podtech is the next Google, and I know no hubris

Absolutely! My hubris is bigger than your hubris!

Rory, stay away from my hubris.

Ahh, this is almost as much fun as Twitter!

Almost.

Oh, and Rory, can you whip up some scrambled eggs for me since you know you're better than me at running the kitchen? Thanks!

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 05:45:29 GMT

>And, if you don't think Podtech has deep problems, you should try reading that one little piece you wrote in which you talked about how tough it is to squeeze money out of video.

PodTech has millions of dollars in revenues and is just about a year old.

If bandwidth bills are a problem (they aren't) then we can always host our videos on YouTube or BlipTV (where video distribution is free).

Or, we could take any number of free solutions.

Your attacks demonstrate that you hate me, but not that you know anything about PodTech's business. It's a private business. Our profit or loss is between us and our VCs (two of the best in the business, USVP and VenRock). Not between you and me. We have about 30 corporate sponsors and have more work than we can shake a stick at.

If you want to worry about failed business ventures go look at Xbox or Windows Mobile. How many billions have been spent by Microsoft at those two? And you're trying to make a case about our bandwidth bills? Heheh. Yes, the other commenters are correct. Your attacks are funny!

>As for "those problems" - what are they? Could you list them? Could you give us solutions?

Yes. I have listed them many times in the past. Do you want to see the email discussions I had with Bill Gates and Steven Sinofsky? And the emails they sent back? Innovators' Dilemma. Read it.

>After our last exchange, a lot of people came up to me in various hallways at Microsoft and commented on how interesting it was to watch you freeze and stutter out irrelevant drivel each time I said something intelligent to you.

Yes, I know this is a popularity contest and people love it when someone attacking them gets attacked. So, you won a battle of words with me. Congratulations. I'll send you a prize. Make sure you mention that on your employee review, you'll get a raise!

>On top of it, you invented (and mastered) the "long-form" video, which no doubt costs much more to deliver than a "short-form" video (these silly terms are how I can tell you're a marketing doof at heart).

Actually, Justin.TV has taken long-form videos to a whole new art level and that dude is more popular than both of us put together. I predict he'll be on David Letterman within a week.

OK, so you don't like "long form." Maybe you would like Loren Feldman. He thinks my videos are long and boring and horrible.

Or maybe you're just angling for a job at PodTech (we hired Feldman AFTER he did that video bashing me).

>What is PodTech's Five Year plan?

To make great content. Period.

You might not have heard, but we've already spun out another company, called National Banana, which is working with Jerry Zucker (director of the movie "Airplane") where we're going to expand into Hollywood entertainment. Details are on CBS Marketwatch's site.

Yeah, Zucker does deals with failing companies, and losers. You might look into that again.

>Anybody can trash something (and Podtech is such an easy target that it worked well for the demonstration), but it takes a lot of work to be positive instead.

That's true. But, then, I've said plenty of nice things about Microsoft even since leaving Microsoft last year (including taking Microsoft's side in a debate in the New York Times against Dave Winer, and giving Microsoft a "demo of the year" award last year. Search Google for "demo of the year." What comes up first?)

The reason my trashing hurts is cause I said so many nice things about Microsoft over the years. And, I, unlike many other tech pundits and experts, have a raft of Microsoft's latest stuff. Media Center, Xbox, Vista, Office 2007.

>we have our best people working around the clock to figure out just what exactly it was you were trying to say

Easy: get rid of committees. Go see Steve Ball inside Microsoft and learn something about how they picked the four sounds everytime you startup Vista (they are the lamest sounds out of the whole group -- but were the "safest" picked by the committee). Ship something that isn't a copy of something else. Buy some best-of-breed companies. Do something interesting for the little guy. Improve your products so they are seen as best-of-breed and not just "me too" services that rely on your existing user base.

I can spell out more if you're really serious. But, the leadership there didn't listen much when I was there (to a whole raft of smart people, not just me). I notice that many of the smartest people I interviewed are now working somewhere other than Microsoft. Want a list?

> There are people on the other end of your attacks, you moron.

I've never called someone a moron. And, it's a rare day in Redmond when I take out an ad homimem knife the way you do. Glad to know you take the same medicine you dish out. Not.

>When I replied in your thread today, it was all about trying to show that, when you behave yourself, I'm willing to give you a Scooble Treat.

Yes. I live my life for those little "Rory Rewards." Yummy!

>You aren't qualified.

Did Jeff make you "God" of all things technical? Interesting. I hope you got a good bump in level and pay for that one!

>I'll check back later to see if you've written to tell me about how many feeds you watch, or about how I don't think Microsoft is in trouble (or whatever other words you'd like to put in my mouth).

I'm not putting any more words in your mouth. You seem to have plenty there yourself.

You attacked me last week, by the way, for pointing the camera at my face during the Zune video I did.

Yet you didn't go through and look at the 600 videos I did while at Microsoft. How many did I appear in? Very few. Maybe a handful. And, I've done more than 200 videos since I left Microsoft and you could only find ONE where I pointed the camera at my face? Damn, I'm so disappointed there weren't many more.

But then I happened across one of your videos from the MS TechFest. You pointed the camera at your face the entire time and, not only did you do that, but you talked to the camera and ignored your interviewee the whole time and didn't look at him. And you didn't point out the dozens of videos where I took the camera away from my face and more fully exposed my interviewee.

Damn, I don't want anyone to think that you're more arrogant or narcissistic than me (it's a tough job attacking multi-billion-dollar companies instead of a small year-old startup), but, you sure seem like you're trying to take the top of that mighty mountain away from me. Do you really want to be known as more arrogant or narcissistic than Scoble? Yeah, that'll get you brownie points in building 18. Not.

Mr. Jay is correct, though. I didn't used to like you either but after getting attacked by you over the past week I've come to enjoy you and your skills.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

irascian — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 06:43:41 GMT

Well I was kinda with you for a while there Robert but the endless name-dropping weakens your argument and strengthens Rory's in my opinion.

And c'mon Zucker "the director of Airplane". That was years ago. Why not mention something more recent and hence more relevant like "Zucker, the director of Scary Movie 4 and Scary Movie 3". Well I think we both know the answer to that. It's called "marketing".

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 06:48:43 GMT

>Well I was kinda with you for a while there Robert but the endless name-dropping weakens your argument and strengthens Rory's in my opinion.

Fair enough. In round 3.0 I'm sure I'll be merely competent at wordboxing with Rory instead of incompetent!

>And c'mon Zucker "the director of Airplane". That was years ago. Why not mention something more recent and hence more relevant like "Zucker, the director of Scary Movie 4 and Scary Movie 3". Well I think we both know the answer to that. It's called "marketing".

Oh, is "marketing" a bad word?

Robert

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

bitdisaster — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:19:38 GMT

Hey Rory is your turn!

I'm sitting here with a popcorn & coke and wait for round two

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

W3bbo — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:56:05 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

>Anyway, what are you talking about?

I can't say, sorry. I was shown in confidence and the person showing it to me didn't have approval to show it to me.

I seriously doubt anyone else outside of Microsoft has seen it. Certainly not W3bbo. It's not a copy of something anyone else has done.

I'll tell you what it was at Mix.

I have people on my Messenger contact list who say things they shouldn't. Remember how I leaked Royale Noir, for example?

RobertScoble wrote:

What I saw today is NOT a strategy. It's just a neat "little" thing. If I see six more "little" things like the one I saw today, THEN we might call it a "strategy."

As to how Hotmail ended? In the past 30 days about 200 million people have used Hotmail.

I wish +I+ had a few strategies that ended that way.

I wasn't refering to Hotmail, exactly. But I believe something very similar to this "scheme" that's going on was tested out on Hotmail and a few other Microsoft/MSN-owned websites before being tried out on the general internet....and then dropping out completely.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 08:29:00 GMT

>But I believe something very similar to this "scheme" that's going on was tested out on Hotmail and a few other Microsoft/MSN-owned websites before being tried out on the general internet....and then dropping out completely.

Hmmm, the thing I saw today really doesn't have much to do with email/hotmail at all. So, that tells me we're seeing two separate things.

My mind races! Glad I'm going to Mix for sure now.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Christian Liensberger — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 08:34:14 GMT

Fresh air... Fresh air in the Coffeehouse! Keep these threads coming... Keep em coming!

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

W3bbo — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 08:36:34 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

>But I believe something very similar to this "scheme" that's going on was tested out on Hotmail and a few other Microsoft/MSN-owned websites before being tried out on the general internet....and then dropping out completely.

Hmmm, the thing I saw today really doesn't have much to do with email/hotmail at all. So, that tells me we're seeing two separate things.

My mind races! Glad I'm going to Mix for sure now.

I said it was tried out on the hotmail site, not that it had anything else to do with email.

But this was almost 8 years ago, it wouldn't have been done by the same department and Microsoft had a different strategy. Nevermind.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Rory — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 08:51:53 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

>And, if you don't think Podtech has deep problems, you should try reading that one little piece you wrote in which you talked about how tough it is to squeeze money out of video.PodTech has millions of dollars in revenues and is just about a year old.

If you don't think Podtech is in deep trouble, then maybe you should read http://www.neopoleon.com.There's this brilliant guy over there who thinks Podtech is in all kinds of trouble, and he's way smart, and he's way loud, so he must be right.(Taking a page of the Scoble School of Rhetoric there. I'm sure it'll be lost on you as details often are (do you have any idea how many times you've told me (and pretty much anybody) to do a search for "demo of the year" and see what comes up first? you should make little notes to yourself after you do it the first time and don't sound like a broken record again and again and again and again...)).

RobertScoble wrote:

Your attacks demonstrate that you hate me

Dude... [shaking head]I've never met anybody so quick to jump to assumptions. You came in here today, posted something, and I defended you.Then you attacked me for defending you.You're such a baby. It makes me feel kind of bad for using all these grown-up words with you.

RobertScoble wrote:

but not that you know anything about PodTech's business.

Does putting things in bold make them true? I'm going to have to try that.You're a wiener.(Did you turn into a wiener?)

RobertScoble wrote:

Our profit or loss is between us and our VCs (two of the best in the business, USVP and VenRock).

I wonder how they feel about your lack of a business plan, or the way you burn company bucks responding to me at length while making yourself look like a doofus.

RobertScoble wrote:

Not between you and me.

To be clear: As long as you decide to wedge yourself in between other people and their businesses, making idiotic and unsubstantiated claims (no - telling me to search for "demo of the year" doesn't make things true - it taks bold font to do that), I'll help myself to whatever I'd like chez Scoble.You dish it out. You ought to be able to take it, too.

RobertScoble wrote:

We have about 30 corporate sponsors and have more work than we can shake a stick at.

Is stick shaking a 1:1 activity? It seems to me that, if you had any talent at all, you'd be able to shake a stick at all 30 sponsors at once. No need to go out and buy 29 extra sticks, or hire 29 extra stick-shakers (although Podtech does seem to think it's 1998, and that VC money is just going to keep coming while you shovel it into a pile and burn it (be sure to add shovels, shovelers, gas, and lighters to your budget)).That said, it'd be really funny if you got your sponsors out there and shook a stick at them (or tried - you think you couldn't shake your stick at all of 'em, but I think you could manage, my dear - I have faith in you (not the same kind of faith you have in yourself, though - I don't think you're Jesus)).

RobertScoble wrote:

If you want to worry about failed business ventures go look at Xbox or Windows Mobile. How many billions have been spent by Microsoft at those two?

Hm. I don't know how many billions. Please have a detailed report on my desk in the morning.

RobertScoble wrote:

And you're trying to make a case about our bandwidth bills?

Well, the difference is that Xbox and Windows Mobile will still be around next year.

RobertScoble wrote:

>As for "those problems" - what are they? Could you list them? Could you give us solutions?Yes. I have listed them many times in the past. Do you want to see the email discussions I had with Bill Gates and Steven Sinofsky? And the emails they sent back? Innovators' Dilemma. Read it.

I very rarely read your site. There are so many other more worthwhile things to do out there.Like eat poop.Yes - I'd rather eat poop than read your site.

RobertScoble wrote:

Yes, I know this is a popularity contest and people love it when someone attacking them gets attacked. So, you won a battle of words with me. Congratulations. I'll send you a prize.

If this was a popularity contest, I'd have dragged the events of last week out much longer. But I'm not a link-(I need to watch my language). I said just enough to state a very simple case, but, believe me - in just the comments section for any one of your posts, there's enough garbage from you to fill a desk calendar.As for the laudations - don't bother. If you thought you were in a "battle of words" with me, then you've reall flattered yourself.

RobertScoble wrote:

Make sure you mention that on your employee review, you'll get a raise!

I'll see your generic, dull, limp comeback, and raise you something at least a little clever (I'll also type it with just my left pinkie to show off):"Won battle of words against Robert Scoble" isn't worthy of a raise at Microsoft - we only get rewarded for accomplishments.

RobertScoble wrote:

Actually, Justin.TV has taken long-form videos to a whole new art level and that dude is more popular than both of us put together. I predict he'll be on David Letterman within a week.

He better tape his Letterman appearance (you predicted it, so I bet it'll happen). From what I understand, his business plan is remarkably similar to yours.

RobertScoble wrote:

OK, so you don't like "long form." Maybe you would like Loren Feldman. He thinks my videos are long and boring and horrible. Or maybe you're just angling for a job at PodTech (we hired Feldman AFTER he did that video bashing me).

Wow. You're daring and edgy. You're brave for all the risks you take.::yawn::And, no. I'm not trying to get a job working with you. I heard what you did to your cameraman down in the valley (berating him in front of a bunch of bigwigs for his bad camera skills - yours aren't so hot, muchacho, and that's a pretty lame way of providing someone with feedback).Do all your employees quit a couple days after joining, or was it just him?Fear of getting yelled at by you isn't something that would stop me from wanting to work at Podtech, though. That part would actually be fun. If you're as incoherent on the job as you are here, it would be quite amusing.No... the reason I'd never come to Podtech to be your manager is that, honestly, you're a doofus, and I'd hate to have to fire you.

RobertScoble wrote:

>What is PodTech's Five Year plan?To make great content. Period.

If that's all there is to your plan, then you ought to get started.As far as I can tell, you haven't even hit the first (only) goal.How will your "investors" feel about that? Have they done a search for "demo of the year" and seen what comes up first?

RobertScoble wrote:

You might not have heard, but we've already spun out another company, called National Banana, which is working with Jerry Zucker (director of the movie "Airplane") where we're going to expand into Hollywood entertainment. Details are on CBS Marketwatch's site.

Interesting. I didn't see your name anywhere in that post.Has the author done a search for "demo of the year" to see what comes up first?To tell you the truth, I think it's a good move. It prepares us all for a Podtech without Scoble.

RobertScoble wrote:

Yeah, Zucker does deals with failing companies, and losers.

Ouch.I mean, the guy's a hero of mine, having worked on such critically acclaimed films as "Naked Gun 33 1/3: The Final Insult".I never would have spoken about him the way you did just now. That's low, dawgg.

RobertScoble wrote:

(including taking Microsoft's side in a debate in the New York Times against Dave Winer, and giving Microsoft a "demo of the year" award last year. Search Google for "demo of the year." What comes up first?)

I was just about to remind you to tell me to do a search for "demo of the year" and see what comes up first, but... you beat me to it.

RobertScoble wrote:

The reason my trashing hurts is cause I said so many nice things about Microsoft over the years.

That makes no sense.Your "trashing" doesn't hurt. It's just reckless and selfish.However, I've been thinking about it lately and have considered the possibility that I've been too harsh with you about it. Whatever credibility you may have had is shrinking, due in part to the number of times you've told everybody on the internet (twice) to do a search for "demo of the year" to see what comes up first (makes you look senile), and due in part to the way you waste time with the little guys like me. You must be pulling yourself in all sorts of directions, trying to keep up with all the demands made by your ego.I feel sorry for you, my pretty little Robert. I really do.

RobertScoble wrote:

And, I, unlike many other tech pundits and experts

Wait... did you just group yourself in with "experts"?You're too much.

RobertScoble wrote:

have a raft of Microsoft's latest stuff. Media Center, Xbox, Vista, Office 2007.

A "raft"?I always thougt I knew what the word "raft" mean, but you're challenging that assumption.I'm picturing a raft made out of an xbox. Doesn't seem like a good idea.Why, a raft of such construction might only float as well as, or slightly better than, Podtech!(It was too easy. I should have let it go, but you set these up, one after another, in a way I've never seen anybody else do - you're a gem, Scoble.)

RobertScoble wrote:

> There are people on the other end of your attacks, you moron.I've never called someone a moron. And, it's a rare day in Redmond when I take out an ad homimem knife the way you do. Glad to know you take the same medicine you dish out. Not.

OK. First off, it's "ad hominem" (I expected you to mention it - didn't expect you to spell it "homimonimenem").Second, if you took out "that knife" on the "rare day" in Redmond, then you did do it. You might not have used the word "moron," but you still used the tactic.If you're trying to argue somehow that what I did was wrong, you could have chosen many better ways than explaining that you engage in the behavior yourself.Anyway, I don't take my advice from morons

RobertScoble wrote:

>You aren't qualified.Did Jeff make you "God" of all things technical? Interesting. I hope you got a good bump in level and pay for that one!

Um. Jeff likes you, which is more than I can say for the rest of the people around here (you should hear the jokes about your old office and how many articles/photos about/of yourself that you put on the walls - I love it).And, I don't need anyone else's permission to point out that you're a dumbshoes.

RobertScoble wrote:

>I'll check back later to see if you've written to tell me about how many feeds you watch, or about how I don't think Microsoft is in trouble (or whatever other words you'd like to put in my mouth).I'm not putting any more words in your mouth. You seem to have plenty there yourself.

Exactly. I have my own words, and I certainly don't need yours in there mucking everything up.

RobertScoble wrote:

You attacked me last week, by the way, for pointing the camera at my face during the Zune video I did.

No, no, no... it wasn't just for point it at your own face.It was for asking a question (of someone who was giving you his time), and then ignoring the answer to grimace into the lens and ensure that you were more in frame than he was.Get it straight, yo.

RobertScoble wrote:

Yet you didn't go through and look at the 600 videos I did while at Microsoft.

You don't... seriously expect me to sit down and watch 600 videos you made, do you?

RobertScoble wrote:

But then I happened across one of your videos from the MS TechFest. You pointed the camera at your face the entire time and, not only did you do that, but you talked to the camera and ignored your interviewee the whole time and didn't look at him.

You should probably go back and watch the video.At the start, we were sitting in a very awkward position on one small part of a couch. We were both facing the camera. I was watching the viewscreen to see him - not myself (I even remarked on this only a few seconds in).Then, after a short intro, I moved behind the camera and filmed him.I do try to appear in frame with my guests whenever possible. Nothing wrong with that. But I would never, ever ignore them.When I say you ignored your guest, I mean to say just that - you ignored him. I, on the other hand, didn't ignore my guest at all.Seriously. Go back and actually watch the video if you want to use it as an example, but prepared to validate that "moron" comment I made.

RobertScoble wrote:

Damn, I don't want anyone to think that you're more arrogant or narcissistic than me (it's a tough job attacking multi-billion-dollar companies instead of a small year-old startup)

Wow. Again with those true-by-bold statements.That's OK, Robert. Nobody would ever, ever make that mistake. Your reputation as the most arrogant and narcissistic person any of us will ever meet is still firmly in place.On a side note, when did your parenthetical statement have to do with the sentence to which it was attached?On another side note, the Robert-Scoble-is-a-victim thing is getting old. Not only is it not going to earn you any sympathy (pity, maybe, but not for the reasons you'd expect), but it's a source of irritation for many. I only mention it because it's one of those Robert Scoble Things I get to hear about all the time (ever since last week, there's been a steady stream of people coming to me to tell me all about their favorite Robert-is-a-doofus moments - don't know why, and I find it annoying, but thought I'd pass along some of their comments where appropriate).

RobertScoble wrote:

but, you sure seem like you're trying to take the top of that mighty mountain away from me.

No joke, I'm starting to wonder if you have a short term memory problem (I have another great story about this, but it wouldn't be appropriate to tell it here - it's about you, but probably not something you'd like sitting out in a public place).You started the thread. Someone gave you a hard time. I got your back. You attacked me (this bold thing is silly, but I figure that, by adopting some of your strange typographical habits, you'll manage to remember what's transpired).

RobertScoble wrote:

Do you really want to be known as more arrogant or narcissistic than Scoble?

Pointless, sir, because it's impossible.

RobertScoble wrote:

Yeah, that'll get you brownie points in building 18. Not.

You really have no idea what people really think of you.Again, being honest, that's sad. And, not in an I-pity-you "sad" kind of way, but in "That clown doesn't have anyone to play with" kind of way.(That would be the funny kind of sad.)

RobertScoble wrote:

Mr. Jay is correct, though. I didn't used to like you either but after getting attacked by you over the past week I've come to enjoy you and your skills.

I'm glad one of us was entertained by your presence here.Smacking you around is my consolation prize for knowing you exist.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Rory — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 08:56:46 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

>Podtech is the next Google, and I know no hubris

Absolutely! My hubris is bigger than your hubris!

Rory, stay away from my hubris.

Ahh, this is almost as much fun as Twitter!

Almost.

Oh, and Rory, can you whip up some scrambled eggs for me since you know you're better than me at running the kitchen? Thanks!

"My hubris is bigger than your hubris."

Lame.

Just...

Lame.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Rory — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 08:58:09 GMT

section31 wrote:

Hey Rory is your turn!

I'm sitting here with a popcorn & coke and wait for round two

Sorry.

I was busy searching for "demo of the year" to see what comes up first.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Rory — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 08:59:45 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

My mind races!

In the Special Olympics!

And loses!

(With that, I'm off to bed. My work here is finished for the night.)

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

W3bbo — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:11:59 GMT

Rory, shouldn't you have your own entry in Encyclopedia Dramatica by now?

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Massif — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:31:37 GMT

This kind of reminds me of an ancient clip from 2DTV (I think it was 2DTV) with Ariel Sharon (last Israeli Prime Minister for those who don't know) in. He had a fire in the kitchen, and went around somthing like this:

"Oh no! Perhaps this oil will help put out the fire.!"
"Perhaps this vodka!"
"Maybe these fireworks!"

Kinda reminds me of this argument for some reason.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:33:27 GMT

>Kinda reminds me of this argument for some reason.

How about this methane gas?

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Massif — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:39:51 GMT

I was going to suggest a boxing match to sort this out, but I'm thinking to keep it more geeky perhaps there's some xBox game you can both play to sort out all this agression once and for all.

I've lost some respect for both Rory and Robert through all this, and I honestly don't care who's in the right. (Besides, I'm old enough to know generally both people are right, and both are wrong, it's just a question of proportions.) Although I'm not arrogant enough to believe that either of you care in the least about my opinion.

I'll happily sound patronising though by pointing out that perhaps you both should refrain from carrying on arguments when it's clearly past both of your bedtimes. (Act like children, get treated like them.)

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:40:19 GMT

>If you don't think Podtech is in deep trouble, then maybe you should read http://www.neopoleon.com.There's this brilliant guy over there who thinks Podtech is in all kinds of trouble, and he's way smart, and he's way loud, so he must be right.

He's definitely way smart. Way smarter than me.

>You're such a baby.

You're right, I am. Why you having a conversation with a baby if you're a grown up?

>responding to me at length while making yourself look like a doofus

What's wrong with being a doofus? You made being a doofus cool and I just want to be like you.

>I'd rather eat poop than read your site

Is that supposed to be an insult? Damn, my 13-year-old can flame better than you.

>I'll see your generic, dull, limp comeback, and raise you something at least a little clever (I'll also type it with just my left pinkie to show off):"Won battle of words against Robert Scoble" isn't worthy of a raise at Microsoft - we only get rewarded for accomplishments.

Sorry, I only have 1/4th the IQ that you have. So, slow down a little as I struggle to keep up with your greatness.

>I heard what you did to your cameraman down in the valley (berating him in front of a bunch of bigwigs for his bad camera skills - yours aren't so hot, muchacho, and that's a pretty lame way of providing someone with feedback).

There were something like two people in the blog house at that time. Your boss being one of them. Agreed it was a lame way to provide feedback. He didn't leave cause of that, though. But, who cares about the truth when you have a good insult to make? Oh, wait a second, I thought THAT bothered YOU when I did it. Now I'm confused. Blame it on my slow brain again.

>Your "trashing" doesn't hurt. It's just reckless and selfish.

Oh, right. We're back to this line again. Damn it I want to keep the "most egotistical" award to myself, Rory. But you keep trying to grasp it out of my hands and put it on your own shelf. Grrrrr.

>First off, it's "ad hominem"

You HAD to pick on my misspelling, didn't you?

Like I said, I'm trying to keep up with someone who has 400% my intellect. Sometimes I'll make mistakes just trying to keep up.

>Um. Jeff likes you, which is more than I can say for the rest of the people around here (you should hear the jokes about your old office and how many articles/photos about/of yourself that you put on the walls - I love it).

Well, great, I have a bunch of backstabbers who won't even have the balls to tell me I'm an arrogant buttwipe to my face. At least with you I get the real deal. I'd much rather hang around someone who isn't nice when they are getting something from me, then stabbing me in the back as soon as I'm out of sight. Freaking just stick the damn knife in my chest when I'm in front of you.

But, that sure explains a WHOLE lot about the culture there that I don't even want to revisit. That explains a whole lot why so many smart people don't stick around.

Good luck with that. I bet they are doing the same thing with you. Wonder what kind of jokes they are making behind YOUR back?

Jeff, though, is a straight up guy. If he doesn't like you he'll tell you to your face. I appreciate that in someone.

> You don't... seriously expect me to sit down and watch 600 videos you made, do you?

Absolutely not. But, let's not go there since we're both in the content business and if no one watches our videos then we're out on the street. Better go watch some more of yours so I can learn how to do it right.

>When I say you ignored your guest, I mean to say just that - you ignored him.

Really? Wild. I'm so glad you know exactly what I was doing. You're telling me you can't look at your camera and pay attention to your guest too? Damn, I have only 1/4 your IQ and I can do that. Either way, you focused on, what, five seconds out of a 40-minute video? Out of 200 videos I've done?

Congratulations for finding a moment of stupidness in my videos. There's probably a few others, but then you'll have to watch.

>Your reputation as the most arrogant and narcissistic person any of us will ever meet is still firmly in place.

Whew! I thought it was in danger there for a minute.

>ever since last week, there's been a steady stream of people coming to me to tell me all about their favorite Robert-is-a-doofus moments

Great! If anyone who worked with me can't give you at least five then they didn't really work with me very long.

Hell, read my wife's blog and you'll see even more.

>You really have no idea what people really think of you.

I'm sure they think I'm an arrogant, stupid, doofus, if what you write is any indication.

But, if all of that is true, why you wasting your time telling someone who has 1/4 the IQ points of you that he's an arrogant, stupid, doofus?

And why am I bothering to listen to someone who listens to backstabbing coworkers?

I don't know, but I think it has to do with that cartoon that Ross loaded in the forum earlier this evening.

Say hi to your co-workers at Microsoft. You know the ones. They have patent cubes on their shelves.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:43:22 GMT

>Although I'm not arrogant enough to believe that either of you care in the least about my opinion.

I do care and, of course, you are right.

That said, it's hard to disengage.

I'll take your advice, though cause it's the most sound advice I've read here tonight.

Good night Rory.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Rossj — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:48:07 GMT

Massif wrote:

I've lost some respect for both Rory and Robert through all this

QFT. Although I did get *some* initial enjoyment out of seeing Robert get a good shouting at for his attitude and his fickle-ness.

I dislike immensely Robert's Dvorak-like link whoring (dvorak slams Apple for hits though), and I hate seeing Rory getting wound up to the point where he thinks that responding to every comment from Robert is constructive (or funny or something).

Maybe you two could just like, stop talking, it is obvious that neither are going to change ... but slamming each other here just makes you both look bad.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Sourcecode — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:55:03 GMT

W3bbo wrote:

Rory, shouldn't you have your own entry in Encyclopedia Dramatica by now?

lol.

I'm actually hesitant to post anything for fear of being reduced and belittled to the size of a peanut by the Rory beat down machine. Honestly I expect much more professionalism from Rory being that this is a MS forum, and Scoble is a guest on it.

After all; if everyone’s point of view lined up exactly where would there be a conversation. If the point of view we express on this forum is expected to be lined up with the MS or Rory point of view, what is point of coming here to converse?

Scoble expressed a point of view that was IMO wrongly meet with a over exaggerated *public* attack on character (not just on Scoble). Instead of being meet with calm, intelligent, and productive debate about the issues expressed.

WTF!!

Regardless whether Scoble is right or wrong, Id expect someone that is part of the C9 team and Microsoft to step up and be the professional about the whole thing, instead of turning it into a (I need to watch my language) slap contest.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Ambition — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 11:34:45 GMT

You guys remind me of my school friends, although slightly more literate.

They're talking about "Technology-X" - I'm sure it will take the world by storm.

Edit: I backed up the conversation just in case someone get's into their heads to delete this one.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

AndyC — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:04:20 GMT

Rory wrote:

I was busy searching for "demo of the year" to see what comes up first.

I tried that.

It was something about Final Fantasy XIII.

I hate Final Fantasy.

Where's all the love gone? Hugs all round, I say.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Lazycoder2 — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:07:47 GMT

For those of you playing the home game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

An Ad hominem attack is a logical fallacy. If I say, "Scoble is an idiot", I'm not presenting an Ad Hominem attack. If I say , "Scoble is an idiot, therefore he is wrong about this thing" and don't present any counter evidence, I'm presenting an Ad Hominem argument.

Saying, "Of course Rory would defend Microsoft, he works there" or "Scoble is just poting sour grapes because he doesn't work for Microsoft anymore" are also examples of Ad Hominem arguments.

Remember kids, insults are not Ad hominem.

Next time, we'll tackle the Strawman.

That being said, this kind of post by robert DOES fall into the "Scoble formula", if there is such a thing. Make a post based on inside information but make sure the post contains none of the inside information and just serves to essentially say "nyah, nyah. I know something you don't know and I'm not tell-ing!" And it was old even back in the Longhorn hyping days on his blog.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

PaoloM — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:21:16 GMT

*clap* *clap*

While we're on the subject, let's talk about "trolls".

There's no such thing as a troll poster or troll user. These are not the scandinavian ugly beings we're referring to here...

Troll is actually a verb. It comes from the fishing act of trailing some bait behind a boat to see if fish bites.

In Usenet terminology this meant an article posted with the sole purpose to rile up other users while not providing any real contribution to the discussion.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Charles — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:40:55 GMT

For the record, most people, including me, around here do appreciate the work Scoble did. Scoble is a 9 guy. He helped make this place what it is today and that needs to be front and center. Nobody on the C9 team who has worked with Scoble talks trash behind his back (Rory doesn't either). Scoble knows very well what my felings are as I consistently expressed them to him while we were co-workers...

I don't particularly like this public character bashing that's been going on of late (in retrospect my post criticizing Scoble for his remarks on Channel 9 as Marketing/Advertising should have been sent to him directly in email. I apologize for letting my emotions get the best of me. I've put a lot of my heart and soul into C9 and felt betrayed by comments that perhaps I took out of context).

Channel 9 is not the place to have this type of character discourse.

Scoble, we'll have a drink in Vegas and calmly, though passionately, debate MIX vs PDC and MS strategy.

Again, Niners bashing Niners on Channel 9 is not a good thing.

Scoble is Scoble, he does what he does, he's passionate about transparency, he has a good heart. Same is true for Rory. Sometimes, these charactersitics can get the best of you and we see threads like this. It's OK. We are human, after all. Just be more respectful in the future please (this includes me).

Let's move along, my friends.

Keep on posting,
C

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

RobertScoble — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:53:24 GMT

Thanks dude, I really appreciate that. I'll buy the first round!

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

me — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:09:24 GMT

i didnt see this thread till just now - haha another classic

scoble wrote:
"Easy: get rid of committees. Go see Steve Ball inside Microsoft and learn something about how they picked the four sounds everytime you startup Vista (they are the lamest sounds out of the whole group -- but were the "safest" picked by the committee). Ship something that isn't a copy of something else. Buy some best-of-breed companies. Do something interesting for the little guy. Improve your products so they are seen as best-of-breed and not just "me too" services that rely on your existing user base."

i guess this was the only real bit of info in it - but not as entertaining as the back and forth

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

ddewbofh — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:15:09 GMT

Avoiding the "me too" syndrome is an excellent point, I think it could be very good for MS to release something completely new and innovative. It's hard to do, especially when you're as big as MS, but it's definatly food for thought. Dare to take risks.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

me — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:24:43 GMT

the issue is (back to innovators dilema) is that i bet there were MANY ideas from the brilliant people at MS

but... gotta protect windows bla bla

this is because ms is currently being run by a sales guy - sorry - theres just no other reason for it

I also would surmise that vista had alot of features dropped soley to become - extra revenue features - instead of including them

In steveb's defence ... and in his own words - " we got a competitor who offers everything for free - great"

dont know how id comete with that either (seeing as gates re-wrote how software shouldnt be free at the begining - and now its coming back the other way around (software free / pay for services/hardware)

so its not easy .. but id probably start by thinking that Bill Gates was the one with the andy grove "only the paranoid surive" mentality - and it was bill gates who brought up innovators dilemma over and over - saying he never wanted to succumb to it...

so .. what happened bill? one too many bad interviews? one too many slips where you actually said the truth - about killing this company or that company.. i miss that bill gates.. and it sure is sad he seems to have been nutered by a commando committee of MBA / CPA / Sales guys - with no BALLs - only BALLmers

* see i can be a sh**disturber too!

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

ddewbofh — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:30:53 GMT

There's no need for any whining, it's like they say. Finding problems is easy, it's solving them that's the hard part.

To be honest I really like MS they way they are right now, they could keep going like they do now and I would still be a repeat customer. The new _relative_ transparency with fairly regular CTP's of projects and some openess (blogs and all) is great. I think MS went off the deep end in 2003 with Longhorn and it looks like they've learnt from their mistake.

Over the last few months they've released an OS I can't live without, it's that good, and an office suite that kicks major booty. They have the Xbox franchise and MCE. What's the problem, aren't they giving you cool enough stuff for cheap enough or what?

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

thumbtacks2 — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:36:18 GMT

jamie wrote:

the issue is (back to innovators dilema) is that i bet there were MANY ideas from the brilliant people at MS

but... gotta protect windows bla bla

this is because ms is currently being run by a sales guy - sorry - theres just no other reason for it

This is precisely why I'd rather work alone or on a small team and not inside of MS. Ultimately, if things pan out, you'll see a whole lot of innovation over on Linux in terms of desktop apps. In terms of corporate culture, I've had far too many very creative ideas that had to be forcibly abandoned because plans changed "higher up". Yet people still talk about those creations years later.

P.S. Coming soon: a small, creative project I'll tenatively call "Cards on Wires". Stay tuned. [6]

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

ddewbofh — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:38:58 GMT

thumbtacks2 wrote:

P.S. Coming soon: a small, creative project I'll tenatively call "Cards on Wires". Stay tuned.

Sunday's April 1st, your dead-line for sandbox code.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

thumbtacks2 — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:46:06 GMT

ddewbofh wrote:

thumbtacks2 wrote: P.S. Coming soon: a small, creative project I'll tenatively call "Cards on Wires". Stay tuned.

Sunday's April 1st, your dead-line for sandbox code.

I've been sidetracked by a bunch of stuff, and all you'll probably see around that time is rough, basic, demo code. The "wires" part (I'll explain later) will not be fully implemented either because I have to build a tool for that.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

ddewbofh — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:47:47 GMT

thumbtacks2 wrote:

I've been sidetracked by a bunch of stuff, and all you'll probably see around that time is rough, basic, demo code. The "wires" part (I'll explain later) will not be fully implemented either because I have to build a tool for that.

Relax, just pulling your leg. No need to rush anything as far as I'm concerned.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

irascian — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:57:15 GMT

Charles wrote:

Scoble is Scoble, he does what he does, he's passionate about transparency, he has a good heart. Same is true for Rory. Sometimes, these charactersitics can get the best of you and we see threads like this. It's OK. We are human, after all. Just be more respectful in the future please (this includes me).
C

Good post Charles. Having met both Rory and Robert I have a lot of time for both of them and think they have a lot in common (good things that is).

Online is not the best place to judge people or start rants - it's a restrictive medium and can give a very misleading impression.

So Charles, try and get Rory and Robert together at MIX and get them to try and forget what's been written in the heat of the moment. Get them both drunk (oh, just remembered I don't think Rory drinks) and they might even become friends. Regardless of what's been said, both have given a lot to the community. Rory's offer to fly SirHomer for an interview is typical of the sort of generous, passionate gesture he's prepared to make. And I remember PDC05 where Robert (and Adam - sure miss him around these parts) made a point of meeting up with a handful of niners on several occasions when I'm sure he had more important folks he could have gone and met with.

I like both of them, and would hate to ever find myself in a situation (at PDC07 say) where one was avoiding a social situation because the other was there.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Rory — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:17:36 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

>You're such a baby.

You're right, I am. Why you having a conversation with a baby if you're a grown up?

Because of your influence. That's it.

To be fair, I went off to your site this morning and watched some videos. I watch a few every now and then, and they're usually decent (I'll leave out my critique of you - I'm sure you already have some idea of what I think of your style).

The last one I watched was one of the SmileBox vids. It was good - the dev was well spoken - but you asked him some very leading comments about Microsoft and .NET. Rather than simply asking him what he was using, you brought the conversation back, not to the tools they used, but to the tools they didn't (.NET in this case - or at least that was the only one you mentioned - for some reason, you left out python, ruby, perl, and just about every other tech under the sun).

Then, when talking about their agile environment, you had to contrast it all against the typical dev environment at MS, totally ignoring the fact that we have far more agile development going on here than, for example, the SmileBox place does.

I'm not saying that I think agile is the way to go. It is for some projects, and it seems to do away with a bit of the chaos. Just being clear that this isn't an endorsement.

Regardless, there were so many ways you could have handled Java + agile without repeatedly contrasting against MS, and particularly when you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

The Patterns and Practices team comes to mind. It makes sense for them to be agile. The flow of information is staggering. I left that place feeling very much awed by what I saw.

But, you relied on your own assumptions as well as generalizations. Instead of being a little kind, you did the one thing you seem to know how to do, which is to focus on whatever it takes to get your drama.

Yes, there was some truth to what you said about MS, but it was by no means absolute. With 70,000, I feel comfortable saying that you're going to find many different approaches across the company. Focusing on the one that's good for your story (fiction) is an abuse of your authority.

Even if what you said had been true across the board, you don't have to be a dev to figure out that comparing a company with thousands of devs to a company with six doesn't make any sense.

That gets to the core of my problem with you. It isn't the lame insults - I let those get me worked up, but not for the right reasons (I'm not going to let someone like you talk down to me - if you had my respect, I'd be much kinder - but you don't).

The problem is that you regularly abuse your position. At least that's the way it looks. I'll assume, since I'm not in a position to do otherwise (and since you didn't fact check with us), that you don't always mean to do the damage you do. You're like a three-legged bull in a china shop.

I'll leave it up to you to figure out what I mean by that. It might actually make a bigger difference if I give you homework rather than simply tell you what's going on.

RobertScoble wrote:

>responding to me at length while making yourself look like a doofus

What's wrong with being a doofus? You made being a doofus cool and I just want to be like you.

Take a lesson from me, dawgg.

If you're going to be stupid and immature, try to be entertaining as well.

RobertScoble wrote:

>I'd rather eat poop than read your site

Is that supposed to be an insult? Damn, my 13-year-old can flame better than you.

Well, put your 13-year-old on. If you need to rely on your adolescent to defend you, then goferit.

RobertScoble wrote:

Sorry, I only have 1/4th the IQ that you have. So, slow down a little as I struggle to keep up with your greatness.

From here on out, I'm only going to respond to comments with substance.

I'm honestly not trying to insult you with this comment, but your insults are the lamest bits of anemic online flamewar-ish drivel I've seen in a native English speaker on this site.

Ever.

Just try to imagine, then, that I'm replying to all of them with some witty comeback to which you say... well, things like what you said.

Can't be bothered by it anymore.

RobertScoble wrote:

>I heard what you did to your cameraman down in the valley (berating him in front of a bunch of bigwigs for his bad camera skills - yours aren't so hot, muchacho, and that's a pretty lame way of providing someone with feedback).

There were something like two people in the blog house at that time. Your boss being one of them. Agreed it was a lame way to provide feedback. He didn't leave cause of that, though. But, who cares about the truth when you have a good insult to make? Oh, wait a second, I thought THAT bothered YOU when I did it. Now I'm confused. Blame it on my slow brain again.

Let's be clear (or, I'll be clear, and you can keep doing what you're doing) - I didn't tell you that your cameraman left because of what you did. You left my quote intact. You should have known this.

When I told you earlier on that the straw man is a bad habit of yours, I was being serious. I don't care for referring to components of rhetoric by name, as I think it's even a little too pretentious for me (which is saying something), but felt I should.

The reason is that, in my experience, few tactics apart from the straw man lead to so much misunderstanding and back and forth.

Read about it here so that you know what you're doing.

If you want to debate - and you appear to, since you attacked me early on in this thread when I came to your defense - then save us both some time by not adding more to the argument in this way.

If you don't want to read up on the method, then here's a short version for you (consider as well how many times you've done this in your videos and on your blog - or how many times you've done it in arguments - if you wonder why you're "attacked" so often, this should clear some things up for you):

Rory: Lay off Microsoft. Until you have your own company's "strategy" taken care of, it's insulting to hear it from you, and it's irresponsible to all the people at various companies you attack.

Scoble: You don't think Microsoft has deep problems? It does. Read [insert non-authoritative online reference here] sometime.

Tell me you see what happened here.

In the example, I told you to stop attacking Microsoft on a point that you don't understand yourself (if you did, then I think podtech's five year strategy would be better than "Make great content" - that's not a strategy - it's a tactic spread out over a long period of time with no end in sight).

Then, "you" came back with question, posed it as though I had taken the stance, and then provided what you believe to be evidence to the contrary.

There's a disconnect here. You put words into my mouth. You do it to others. You do it so often that you might not even realize you're doing it.

Try to pay attention for a week, and catch yourself each time you play this game. Enjoy the shock and awe of your belief that you're being "attacked" fade.

RobertScoble wrote:

>Your "trashing" doesn't hurt. It's just reckless and selfish.

Oh, right. We're back to this line again. Damn it I want to keep the "most egotistical" award to myself, Rory. But you keep trying to grasp it out of my hands and put it on your own shelf. Grrrrr.

I don't even know what you meant by this.

The reason I keep using the words "reckless" and "selfish" is that you talk trash about companies without offering real solutions.

"Ship" is not a solution. Slow shipping is a symptom of a problem in some areas of the company.

That said, this goes back to a lack of understanding of what "strategy" is.

You insulted our "internet strategy" (another thing I don't understand - it would have been tough for you to have been any vaguer), yet your solution was to "ship."

Shipping is tactical. It's not a strategy, and it's not the solution to any problems we might have in some parts of the company.

When you lash out, someone always gets hurt. Someone's on the receiving end of your comment. You need to be able to see that.

Did it feel good when I talked about what a mess podtech is? Did that last statement feel good?

RobertScoble wrote:

>First off, it's "ad hominem"

You HAD to pick on my misspelling, didn't you?

Yes. Like it or not, spelling and grammar are key to how people see you online. If you want to make these broad, sweeping attacks (such as those involving our "internet strategy") then you should expect to get some crap in return.

Think about it. You insulted thousands of people with one simple gesture.

Why should you be immune to the same treatment?

That's all for now. I have other things I need to do today.

I'll come back to see if you respond seriously, or if this is going to turn into another "You attacked me! You attacked me!" comment.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

me — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:33:44 GMT

hey charles - we should charge admission to the rest of this thread (coming soon - fueled by red wine (prediction) on a friday night - should be good)

give the money to charity or something

Step right up ladies and gents! in this con'ah! ....

*Im in for 10 bucks

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Minh — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:34:52 GMT

jamie wrote:

hey charles - we should charge admission to the rest of this thread

Whew! Snuck in just in time.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

harumscarum — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:39:10 GMT

I pretty much never get involved in cat fights around here, but you guys should really take your discussion offline. It is doing much more damage then good to this community.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

raymond — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:42:07 GMT

jamie wrote:

hey charles - we should charge admission to the rest of this thread (coming soon - fuled by red wine on a friday night - should be good)

give the money to charity or something

Step right up ladies and gents! in this con'ah! ....

Charles, have a poll on Niners opinion as to whether Robert or Rory scored to most points on their exchange in this post.

Great idea for a video-- Robert vs. Rory (creative professional vs. expressive developer) at MIX 07. Shoot it at the hotel's bar about 12 midnight.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

me — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:50:51 GMT

Minh wrote:

Whew! Snuck in just in time.

haha

Scoble phone: ring ring
Scoble: hello?
Rory: hey it's me. Wow - when they said to create buzz for mix - i bet they never thought we'd take it this far
Scoble: haha ya! everyone thinks this is real!
Rory: well we better keep going. you going to play heavy now.. or should i?

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Jason Olson — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:56:57 GMT

I do have to say one thing: this is taking transparency to the extreme . I promise, no PR firms were used to prepare responses on Rory's part (or Robert's for that matter from the PodTech end).

Now I have to insert the obligitory "Can't we all just get along?!?!?"

Seriously though, you two should calm down. There's a lot of noise, bickering and bitching from both ends. I have seen you both give good constructive advice to each other but it's all lost in the noise.

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Christian Liensberger — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:09:47 GMT

jamie wrote:

haha

Scoble phone: ring ring
Scoble: hello?
Rory: hey it's me. Wow - when they said to create buzz for mix - i bet they never thought we'd take it this far
Scoble: haha ya! everyone thinks this is real!
Rory: well we better keep going. you going to play heavy now.. or should i?

Jamie, you ARE my hero!

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

me — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:12:42 GMT

thanks

*just trying to lighten things up a little

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Jason Olson — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:15:33 GMT

littleguru wrote:

jamie wrote: haha

Scoble phone: ring ring
Scoble: hello?
Rory: hey it's me. Wow - when they said to create buzz for mix - i bet they never thought we'd take it this far
Scoble: haha ya! everyone thinks this is real!
Rory: well we better keep going. you going to play heavy now.. or should i?

Jamie, you ARE my hero!

QFTFBATHTGT (Quoted For The Freaking Best, Absolutely Totally Honest To Goodness Truth). FTW!!!!

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

me — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:48:56 GMT

AND now... for the puchline: *ahem*

..so a few posts up/back i agreed with scoble on the Too many committees

+1 for scoble

... and rorys bosses and coworkers are asking him to play nice - but he keeps coming back - with hard hitting - DIRECT - comments

very ...un-committee

+1 rory

..oh the irony

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Christian Liensberger — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:11:57 GMT

Dehehehe Awesome as usual! I find it so cool that you bring some humor into this debating on ..., well, let's call it: not so important stuff...

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

jb43081 — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:54:48 GMT

So the real question is who is going to be the first to ge banned: Rory or Scoble?

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

tsilb — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 05:01:23 GMT

RobertScoble wrote:

Scobleizer I told Dave to pop up some Starbucks ads on TwitterVision just to freak everyone out.

Use your troll powers to make it go away!

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

Tom Servo — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:36:37 GMT

I wish people would stop this cockteasing bullshit. Seriously. If it's just a week before being revealed, then fine. But if it's longer off than that, keep things to yourself. This blogosphere hypefest crap is annoying.

--edit: This secret OMG thing better not be Tahiti.
--edit: Also, where's WPF Live Messenger?

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

PaoloM — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 03:46:35 GMT

Tom Servo wrote:

I wish people would stop this cockteasing bullshit. Seriously. If it's just a week before being revealed, then fine. But if it's longer off than that, keep things to yourself. This blogosphere hypefest crap is annoying.

I agree. Actually, any kind of hype is annoying, why can't the industry just get the goods out and THEN talk about them?

Coffeehouse - Mix07 is going to be interesting

eblonk — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:19:08 GMT

W3bbo wrote:

I have people on my Messenger contact list who say things they shouldn't.

Dammit, I have such a pitifull live. Nobody ever leaked inside information to me about anything. If they say something they shouldn´t it´s mostly four letter words.
I must be such a tool to the Big Things that go on the Real World.
Back to my minion job of annoying users.