Ignore. Apparently expressing my opinion makes me a jerk. I'm gone.

Scott Bellware is an MVP. Scott doesn't like Vista.

Scott wrote:

Microsoft is not a software company

...it's a social welfare program for people who have outlived their purpose and who are willing to trade society's access to reasonable software for the their access to jobs that they no longer have either the courage or skill for.

...

I think I'm about to become a lover of antiques... or Macs.

Say your prayers Vista... your days before the XP re-install on my machine are numbered.

Why is it if an MVP says something we should instantly take it as an informed, calculated response.

All this "Vista rejection" is bollocks, why even discuss it... it was the same for XP, now everyone "bums" it...

I don't think theres anything left of the ounce of 'being cool to say Vista sucks', beit from an MVP or 'highly regarded IT professional'.

I guess the irony is that these people hit at Microsoft for being too business orientated, knowing all well saying such things will get them publicity, which (of course) is highly investable in power and therefore.. money.

stevo_ wrote:

Why is it if an MVP says something we should instantly take it as an informed, calculated response.

Whoever said that? I was more interested in whether Microsoft would now stop endorsing his position and remove his MVP or whether they are happy for him to be telling a different story than the one they want told.

Microsoft should eliminate "MVP institution"! It's compromised.

But Vista must be fixed too, after (or before) MVPs elimination.
I'm personally not rejecting Vista, it's quite nice, some interesting features stopping me from returning back to XP. But so much annoyances, semi-bakery and "bug-o-features". It must be fixed.

Unfortunately MS never fixing "stupid behaviour". Example? Easily. WMP11! Problem? If you're starting to play something (video) in already running player then it NEVER comes back! WMP doesn't remembers previous item. It's impossible to return to previously played stream/file. You have to start to play previous content again. So I will be extremely impressed if MS will fix folder view "feature" in Windows Explorer in Vista.

PS: But indeed MVP program must be rethinked and cleaned.

Isn't the role of MVP to support Microsoft and product groups and provide feedback, as well as being just an award for work done in the community.

Not just say how amazing the products are.....but if their not, and they say so, doesn't mean they should be kicked out

Rossj wrote:


Whoever said that? I was more interested in whether Microsoft would now stop endorsing his position and remove his MVP or whether they are happy for him to be telling a different story than the one they want told.

What are you looking for here? A comment about how Microsoft should punish MVP's for badmouthing their stuff, or a comment about Microsoft being happy with having their stuff badmouthed?

Really, this is just fishing for controversy. Give it a rest.

ben2004uk wrote:

Not just say how amazing the products are.....but if their not, and they say so, doesn't mean they should be kicked out

If MVPs weren't allowed to criticise Microsoft when they thought it was doing something wrong, they'd not be much use. They are (or at least should be) people who have a vested interest in Microsoft technologies, so they are people Microsoft really ought to listen to (whether or not they agree).

Bas wrote:



Rossj wrote: Whoever said that? I was more interested in whether Microsoft would now stop endorsing his position and remove his MVP or whether they are happy for him to be telling a different story than the one they want told.

What are you looking for here? A comment about how Microsoft should punish MVP's for badmouthing their stuff, or a comment about Microsoft being happy with having their stuff badmouthed?

Really, this is just fishing for controversy. Give it a rest.

No, I am looking for how someone who is recognised for supporting a platform is now making sweeping statements about how bad Vista is - should he not be approaching Microsoft with his issues instead of blogging about it?

Allowing MVPs to say what you want is great, but at some level (at least to non-MVPs and in support forums etc) they are representing Microsoft -not officially- and they should be a lot more restrained in their criticism of products.  They have a beeline to MSFT HQ do they not? Why rant publically about it when you can get it addressed by Microsoft? I don't expect MVPs to act as Microsoft apologists (we have enough of it on C9) but I wouldn't expect them to go to the other extreme.

If some RHAT recognised bloke started ranting about how broken Redhat Enterprise was this forum would be chock full of posts about how even RHAT evangelists realise how crap it is .. blah blah.

Rossj wrote:

If some RHAT recognised bloke started ranting about how broken Redhat Enterprise was this forum would be chock full of posts about how even RHAT evangelists realise how crap it is .. blah blah.

Uh huh, chock fulk. You said it, man.

Bas wrote:



Rossj wrote:If some RHAT recognised bloke started ranting about how broken Redhat Enterprise was this forum would be chock full of posts about how even RHAT evangelists realise how crap it is .. blah blah.

Uh huh, chock fulk. You said it, man.

Don't be a jerk, I just pointed out a blog post that I thought was interesting, not because of the content but because of the position the guy holds.  If you just want to keep posting about what a jerk I am, or how I am just trying to start an argument then go right ahead.

This place is turning into a real waste of time, nobody wants to talk about anything, they just want to slam people who post new topics.

I'll save you the hassle of ignoring my posts and just p1ss off somewhere else .....

ben2004uk wrote:

Isn't the role of MVP to support Microsoft and product groups and provide feedback, as well as being just an award for work done in the community.

Not just say how amazing the products are.....but if their not, and they say so, doesn't mean they should be kicked out

Yes, but...
Look:

1. MVP is calling everyone to "reject" some MS product and choose Linux/Mac/Whatever.

2. MVP is working with MS to improve some product by criticizeing it.

Which one of above is right behaviour for MVP? Perhaps I'm wrong, but think it's a 2nd option. 1st one is too stupid (but so easy!).

Ofcoz, nobody is perfect. But MS gave MVP status to somebody, so that person must have some respect back. Not stupid fanatical "Wow! It's just amazing! Everything is absolutely cool!", but "Wow! Thanks, guys".

So, there is big difference between "reject it!" and "fix and improve it!"

stevo_ wrote:

Why is it if an MVP says something we should instantly take it as an informed, calculated response.

All this "Vista rejection" is bollocks, why even discuss it... it was the same for XP, now everyone "bums" it...

I don't think theres anything left of the ounce of 'being cool to say Vista sucks', beit from an MVP or 'highly regarded IT professional'.

I guess the irony is that these people hit at Microsoft for being too business orientated, knowing all well saying such things will get them publicity, which (of course) is highly investable in power and therefore.. money.

Why if a MVP says it it's taken as an informed response...?

IMO opinion because MVPs are supposed to be chosen because they're informed, because they are community helpers, and participants in the community...I mean common look at Zeo :O

And honestly, yeah...it's the scoble effect passed down to the MVPs now.

I am not an mvp nor am I one to want to appear "cool" but I also have a somewhat high level of frustration with Vista. These things have been discussed numerous times here so there is no need to beat the horse.

If you are on the fence about upgrading Vista I would wait a year. I am one hiccup away from going back to xp. Vista seems to me to be a CYA OS.

Rossj wrote:



Bas wrote:  Rossj wrote: If some RHAT recognised bloke started ranting about how broken Redhat Enterprise was this forum would be chock full of posts about how even RHAT evangelists realise how crap it is .. blah blah. Uh huh, chock fulk. You said it, man.

Don't be a jerk,

Funny, that's exactly what I meant to respond to your RHAT evangelists argument. I just expressed it more poorly.

For the record, I was fine with you posting the blog post. And I now see that I overreacted on your reply to stevo_, for which I apologise.

It's just that you're defending your post as something legitimately interesting, and then can't resist posting a snide remark about how full of hypocrites this place is. That's not expressing an opinion, that's flamebaiting. And if you can't handle being called on it, that's too bad.

An MVP role as I see it is one of privilege and acknowledgement where they enlightened, inform and feedback with changes, suggestions and issues.

However, slagging off a product is unnecessary for whatever reason, there is a line of professionalism here and in this post it's been crossed so the credibility of the author is in question, not so much the product.

Ross, you aren't wasting your time! I always make a bee-line for your posts and threads as I enjoy them very much. Sometimes things can get emotive around here, best not to take it personally as people, no matter what forum will always attack, geeks are like that because afew aren't great at the old social skills. Pitch-of-salt comes to mind.

Sabot wrote:

However, slagging off a product is unnecessary for whatever reason, there is a line of professionalism here and in this post it's been crossed so the credibility of the author is in question, not so much the product.

Absolutey. I'd defend not what he said, just his right to say it.

Sabot wrote:

Ross, you aren't wasting your time! I always make a bee-line for your posts and threads as I enjoy them very much.

++

AndyC wrote:


Absolutey. I'd defend not what he said, just his right to say it.

Real freedom of speach is ability to shut up when it's necessary without external enforcements. As well as real freedom - ability to limit yourself when it's necessary.

"speak anything I want to speal" and "do anything I want to do" - anarchy, not "freedom".