irascian wrote:

And so it goes on.

If anyone else has the temerity to voice their opinion (and say "grow a thicker skin") they're "flaming".

But if the poster voices their opinion which includes calling others "unprofessional", that's all they're doing "voicing their opinion".

And then we get the inevitable "I'm throwing my toys out the pram and leaving" if someone points out they're being hypocritical.

Like I said, VERY professional.

JasonOlson wrote:



irascian wrote: And so it goes on. If anyone else has the temerity to voice their opinion (and say "grow a thicker skin") they're "flaming". But if the poster voices their opinion which includes calling others "unprofessional", that's all they're doing "voicing their opinion". And then we get the inevitable "I'm throwing my toys out the pram and leaving" if someone points out they're being hypocritical. Like I said, VERY professional.

Yes, Scott had EVERY right to say what he said. I had every right to say what I said. Yes, it was ironic because it wasn't professional (on both sides). I was venting just like Scott was. Somehow, you thought that IIIIIII was the _bit*h_.

It's such a double standard, Rory and Scoble can go at it for days on end, but you and I start having one debate, and I have NO CHANCE to respond to you. I would have loved to have a constructive debate with you, but it gets locked?!?!?!? In the coffeehouse?!?!? Bullsh*t. It's just a waste of time.

I'm sorry, but at one time I loved the community because we all could rant like this from time to time since we were all friends. I don't suppose I'm mad at you. I'm mad at Charles, truth be told. I'm mad at the Channel 9 staff, I'm just in a bad mood overall. A community I used to love has devolved to sh*t. We STILL have AWESOME videos/screencasts/everything, but the community interaction is so full of egg shells now.

And here I am being a total clown puncher myself since I'm already posting again .

jamie wrote:

we need  quake.channel9.msdn.com

Jaz wrote:

Each time i visit here my turns more into a .  Today more so.

I urge you to rethink Jason, you have been posting here for a long time and it's awesome to have some softies interacting with the community.

There are plenty of trolls on C9 who have nothing better to do than try and annoy us (and it works which makes me sad), Ian isn't at all one of those, nor is Ross. 

Neither of them are attacking you or MS.  They're saying yes there are critics of MS and sometimes you need to read what those critics say (if at least constructive) and take in something, you can't always ignore what is being said because whatever you do won't be 100% perfect.

so cool down, drink some kool aid and come back to us, we can forget this post ever happened.

Charles wrote:



JasonOlson wrote:  irascian wrote: And so it goes on. If anyone else has the temerity to voice their opinion (and say "grow a thicker skin") they're "flaming". But if the poster voices their opinion which includes calling others "unprofessional", that's all they're doing "voicing their opinion". And then we get the inevitable "I'm throwing my toys out the pram and leaving" if someone points out they're being hypocritical. Like I said, VERY professional. Yes, Scott had EVERY right to say what he said. I had every right to say what I said. Yes, it was ironic because it wasn't professional (on both sides). I was venting just like Scott was. Somehow, you thought that IIIIIII was the _bit*h_. It's such a double standard, Rory and Scoble can go at it for days on end, but you and I start having one debate, and I have NO CHANCE to respond to you. I would have loved to have a constructive debate with you, but it gets locked?!?!?!? In the coffeehouse?!?!? Bullsh*t. It's just a waste of time. I'm sorry, but at one time I loved the community because we all could rant like this from time to time since we were all friends. I don't suppose I'm mad at you. I'm mad at Charles, truth be told. I'm mad at the Channel 9 staff, I'm just in a bad mood overall. A community I used to love has devolved to sh*t. We STILL have AWESOME videos/screencasts/everything, but the community interaction is so full of egg shells now. And here I am being a total clown puncher myself since I'm already posting again .

Why are you mad at me??? All I did was lock a thread that was spinning out of control. That's what mods are supposed to do.

C

Don't leave, Jason. I know where your office is....

C

JasonOlson wrote:

And I NEVER said I was being professional. I claimed nothing more than to be sharing my opinion, just like Scott.

How can I NOT get offended when someone directly calls me "not worth it" and that I'm basically useless? Especially someone who has "clout". Defending your company is right.

I don't mind "growing a thicker skin." It's one thing when these claims are made by a troll, it's another thing altogether when they are made by someone who is respected in the community.

But hell, if I were Rory, everyone would be cheering for me. But I'm not, so I'm just a whiney, sniveling, no-for-good M$ employee.

JasonOlson wrote:

And I NEVER said I was being professional. I claimed nothing more than to be sharing my opinion, just like Scott.

How can I NOT get offended when someone directly calls me "not worth it" and that I'm basically useless? Especially someone who has "clout". Defending your company is right.

I don't mind "growing a thicker skin." It's one thing when these claims are made by a troll, it's another thing altogether when they are made by someone who is respected in the community.

But hell, if I were Rory, everyone would be cheering for me. But I'm not, so I'm just a whiney, sniveling, no-for-good M$ employee.

irascian wrote:

I think I must be wired different from everyone else because I take insults as a result of my blog entries as a sense of achievement 

AndyC wrote:


I think that kind of attitude helps. Though as a sysadmin I don't need a blog to get that kind of abuse, I have users* for that.

*At least that's what they are called in polite conversation

irascian wrote:

Yesterday I got an Aussie who hunted out my email address just so he could tell me "read your 300 review. ive come to conclusion. your a wanker".

So does that mean that you do, or that you don't want to shake my hand...

JKelley wrote:

<walks in from sitting by the pool for a week with a Pina Colada in hand>

Hey guys what'd I miss?

P.S. That was rhetorical please don't spend 4 more pages describing the latest forum melt-down.

JasonOlson wrote:



JKelley wrote:<walks in from sitting by the pool for a week with a Pina Colada in hand> Hey guys what'd I miss? P.S. That was rhetorical please don't spend 4 more pages describing the latest forum melt-down.

Me being a dork, that is all.

eagle wrote:

Tomorrow is another day....

JasonOlson wrote:



Me being a dork, that is all.

JasonOlson wrote:

And I NEVER said I was being professional. I claimed nothing more than to be sharing my opinion, just like Scott.

How can I NOT get offended when someone directly calls me "not worth it" and that I'm basically useless? Especially someone who has "clout". Defending your company is right.

I don't mind "growing a thicker skin." It's one thing when these claims are made by a troll, it's another thing altogether when they are made by someone who is respected in the community.

But hell, if I were Rory, everyone would be cheering for me. But I'm not, so I'm just a whiney, sniveling, no-for-good M$ employee.

Jason, I actually wish you would post more often here.

But I also think your getting worked up over this a little much, seems to be a common sickness here on C9 lately, to which MS employees are not immune.

Criticism is a good thing, both toward your company and you as an individual. In most aspects should be considered a learning exercise for improvement rather than a critical attack on your person.

However I do understand the passion in yourself, Rory and Scoble. It’s inevitable when you love what you do, the company you work for, and believe whole heartedly that your doing the right thing. But believing it doesn’t make it so. So often in the heat of our passion we say things, or read things out of context. But you know what that’s OK. It’s part of our being.

It’s difficult to debate when we are so passionate about something with those that would counter our claims. Often we say wrong or incorrect things because we believe it. It doesn’t make you a bad person nor does it thwart your persona.

What’s the point of C9 if MS is not there to participate in the discussion. MS needs to keep context and perspective in those discussions so as to learn why folks feel that way. What is it about our company and products that make people talk in that fashion.

Don’t belittle, just listen, and attempt to turn the discussion into a constructive experience. It’s not to be seen as a competition of right or wrong. You said it now prove it. Etc.. There is as I’ve said before a wealth of experience and intelligence in all facets of technology here.

Extract that knowledge little by little. Sure allot is crap, but finding 2 constructive posts out of 100 that you can learn from, and apply that to yourself or what you do is worth the time and patience here.

At least that’s my view point.

All that said, I do really hope you hang around, and post more often.

Sourcecode wrote:



JasonOlson wrote: And I NEVER said I was being professional. I claimed nothing more than to be sharing my opinion, just like Scott. How can I NOT get offended when someone directly calls me "not worth it" and that I'm basically useless? Especially someone who has "clout". Defending your company is right. I don't mind "growing a thicker skin." It's one thing when these claims are made by a troll, it's another thing altogether when they are made by someone who is respected in the community. But hell, if I were Rory, everyone would be cheering for me. But I'm not, so I'm just a whiney, sniveling, no-for-good M$ employee.

I haven’t read the rest of the thread yet.

Jason, I actually wish you would post more often here.

But I also think your getting worked up over this a little much, seems to be a common sickness here on C9 lately, to which MS employees are not immune.

Criticism is a good thing, both toward your company and you as an individual. In most aspects should be considered a learning exercise for improvement rather than a critical attack on your person.

However I do understand the passion in yourself, Rory and Scoble. It’s inevitable when you love what you do, the company you work for, and believe whole heartedly that your doing the right thing. But believing it doesn’t make it so. So often in the heat of our passion we say things, or read things out of context. But you know what that’s OK. It’s part of our being.

It’s difficult to debate when we are so passionate about something with those that would counter our claims. Often we say wrong or incorrect things because we believe it. It doesn’t make you a bad person nor does it thwart your persona.

What’s the point of C9 if MS is not there to participate in the discussion. MS needs to keep context and perspective in those discussions so as to learn why folks feel that way. What is it about our company and products that make people talk in that fashion.

Don’t belittle, just listen, and attempt to turn the discussion into a constructive experience. It’s not to be seen as a competition of right or wrong. You said it now prove it. Etc.. There is as I’ve said before a wealth of experience and intelligence in all facets of technology here.

Extract that knowledge little by little. Sure allot is crap, but finding 2 constructive posts out of 100 that you can learn from, and apply that to yourself or what you do is worth the time and patience here.

At least that’s my view point.

All that said, I do really hope you hang around, and post more often.

JasonOlson wrote:



I don't mind "growing a thicker skin."

blowdart wrote:



JasonOlson wrote:  I don't mind "growing a thicker skin."

You use that avatar and don't have a thick skin?

JasonOlson wrote:



LOL. Yes, and it's because I *know* I'm a fat ugly bast*rd . LOL.

irascian wrote:

Great post Rory!

(Shucks, I feel a group hug coming on)

irascian wrote:

I think I must be wired different from everyone else because I take insults as a result of my blog entries as a sense of achievement (I just make sure comments are moderated and don't publish the really moronic ones, or the ever-increasing spam ones).

irascian wrote:

Sorry to hear your blog has been the source of pain.

irascian wrote:

I've read comments from many people on your blog which make it clear you have quite a following.

irascian wrote:

I can't think of many people who could blog they're going to be in London for a bite to eat and have a whole bunch of "strangers" make an effort to come and join him. That's popularity, right there!

irascian wrote:

Hopefully the number of people who clearly get a kick out of reading your stuff makes up for all the jerks there are around. You always get jerks, no matter who you are, no matter what you do. Just ignore them or they've won.

irascian wrote:

By the way if you were serious when you said "I wish that someone had come along and physically restrained me" I think I know some folks who would definitely get off on that (Dang, there I was being all honest and emotional and I had to finish it all off with a cheap "gay" joke).

kettch wrote:



see above

Rory wrote:

I used to feel the same way. I was concerned about the "ignore them or they've won" part. Nowadays, though, I'm more concerned with being happy. It'd be nice to be happy and beat the jerks, but I haven't yet learned how to do that. If anybody has any tips, by the by, I'd be happy to hear 'em.

The trolls are trolls because they have a need to be accepted. People like Beer28 and Foxbar want to be accepted by their own circle of associates. Yes, it is a group of bitter, annoying, small minded fools, but they still have that basic need to be accepted. They troll because then they can say, "Hey, look at these people who disagree with what we collectively believe. Look at how I call them stupid." Then the group gathers around the troll and pats him/her on the back grunting and hooting excitedly in their strange troll-language.

For some people the desire to be liked overrides all other considerations. They don't care how badly they make others feel, how ridiculous they look, or how silly their arguments are. All they care about is getting acceptance from people who they somehow esteem. The trolls don't even have to know the people that they are supposed to be impressing. They are happy with the knowledge that their opinion is the same as the group that they identify with.

Does slowing down or stopping your blogging mean that they have won? No, in fact it serves to show that you are indeed human. That you have the same desire to be accepted. Although, like most people you are able to temper that desire with some degree of reasonableness.

What is the way to stop the trolls from doing what they do? I have my ideas, but I don't think that this is the appropriate setting to be discussing them. I'm also not sure of the best way to mitigate their effects. In some respects, they are annoying and it just eggs them on to argue with them. On the other hand, they are annoying and debating them serves to make us question our beliefs and motives and self examination can be a good thing.

Rory, the next time that the trolls go after you, just remember that you have better hair than they do.

raymond wrote:

Do not let them get you down.

Come back soon for a visit.



PS

Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never-in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
~Winston Churchill

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=423