Why Doesn't Microsoft Have A Cult Religion?

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/12/1834204&from=rss
"'Apple has one. So does the Java community, Oracle, IBM, and Google. Lord knows anyone who uses Linux or free and open source software is dedicated to spreading the gospel of St. Linus Torvalds and St. Richard Stallman. But does anyone really worship the Gods of Redmond?' While many Microsoft employees are pumped to work there, article author Michael Singer explores why even enthusiastic Microsoft-watchers acknowledge that customers and product developers are unenthusiastic about the software giant. He theorizes that it comes down to passion: Microsoft lost that a long time ago, he says, and so passionate people gravitate to other projects and products."

it does but unfortunately nobody here is entitled to speak about it!


Gates be praised!

A cult of over 90% of computer users isn't very much of a cult.

It seems pretty obvious to me.  You don't need a cult-like experience when individuals do something out of pure self-interest.  Microsoft does not seem to try so hard at engendering absolute loyalty or love from its users.  It just wants to satisfy the lowest-hanging needs of everyone who uses a computer (and a few harder needs to, associated with the company's vision of universal worldwide computing and Gates' pet projects like TabletPC).

People use MS technology because it is in their self-interest.  It seems like one just plugs stuff together, packages it up, and sells the product.  There's no religion needed.  Microsoft benefits and the developer benefits. 

Windows and Microsoft's other software is simply a tool to fill a need.  How's there supposed to be a cult around that?  Microsoft's software is like a kitchen knife--  you use it when you need it, then when you're done, you put it away and forget about it.  They don't aim to make their software a "lifestyle"--  it's just another tool.

Actually it does have a cult religion.

A religion of MS haters which are not so cunningly disguised as cult supporters of other operating systems. What would happen if Apple announced it was going to switch to the Vista kernel? (stand down! it's just an example!)

The genuine  Apple users would just carry on regardless; the small cultist minority would feel 'tainted' and switch to Linux.

Why doesn't MS have a religious cult of supporters? Simply because there is no need.

These 'supporter cults' are much the same as any other religious cult if you look at them, which will help you see why they exist.

1. They provide an environment where folk, who may have something missing in their lives, can find a common enemy.
2. Provide a convenient forum for these people to vent their hatred against the aforementioned enemy.

Like similar cults, first comes the hatred; then you have to find the enemy to direct the hatred against.

MS does not have a cult, because it's users don't actually have a strong sense of hatred for other companies or operating systems.

I disagree with the notion that Microsoft does not have a cult religion.

You may be furtunate, not working with or not exposed to these people, but the religios confrontations between different cults (MS lovers and MS haters) can be very prohibiting when trying to carry out a project.

What use are cult religions, anyway?

The answer is simple:  They don't need one.

When I go to places like Slashdot, or God-forbid, any Apple centric website, what I see is a group of people that are fueled by their need to belong to a "support group".  These people are motivated by the insecurity of their platform choice.  Being in the minority, they need to constantly be re-assured that they made the right choice, and that Microsoft sucks.  They seem to be obsessed by this.  It is pretty pathetic to watch thread after thread on Slashdot where most of the people are consumed by their absolute vitriol against MS.  They don't even make sense anymore. They have convinced themselves that MS is the devil himself and automatically assume everything MS does is deeply flawed.

I myself don't feel this way.  I use both MS software and OSS.  Since I don't care either way if the software I use is from MS or not, I think I am in a better position to judge the "suckyness" of software than these people blinded by their hatred.  As such, I can say that in most cases the OSS is less polished, usually lacking important features (menu actions that go nowhere), often abandoned (Sourceforge is a graveyard of half-backed projects)  and don't integrate well with any other application.  Nothing even comes close to MS development tools.  And if anyone these days are doing the innovation when it comes to software development, it is MS.  Look at things like LINQ or Silverlight and its new DLR.  Is there anything even close to this in OSS?

Anyway, yes, I guess in general you can call me pro-MS, but it is because I can see that what they do is pretty amazing and that there is real value in having large groups of developers that need to work closely together on complex projects.  But I don't belong to any MS-cult since I really don't need to be re-assuring myself constantly about my choices since I already feel secure in those choices.

I pity the fool who writes Micro$oft with a dollar-sign.

BitFlipper wrote:



The answer is simple:  They don't need one.

When I go to places like Slashdot, or God-forbid, any Apple centric website, what I see is a group of people that are fueled by their need to belong to a "support group".  These people are motivated by the insecurity of their platform choice.  Being in the minority, they need to constantly be re-assured that they made the right choice, and that Microsoft sucks.  They seem to be obsessed by this.  It is pretty pathetic to watch thread after thread on Slashdot where most of the people are consumed by their absolute vitriol against MS.  They don't even make sense anymore. They have convinced themselves that MS is the devil himself and automatically assume everything MS does is deeply flawed.

I myself don't feel this way.  I use both MS software and OSS.  Since I don't care either way if the software I use is from MS or not, I think I am in a better position to judge the "suckyness" of software than these people blinded by their hatred.  As such, I can say that in most cases the OSS is less polished, usually lacking important features (menu actions that go nowhere), often abandoned (Sourceforge is a graveyard of half-backed projects)  and don't integrate well with any other application.  Nothing even comes close to MS development tools.  And if anyone these days are doing the innovation when it comes to software development, it is MS.  Look at things like LINQ or Silverlight and its new DLR.  Is there anything even close to this in OSS?

Anyway, yes, I guess in general you can call me pro-MS, but it is because I can see that what they do is pretty amazing and that there is real value in having large groups of developers that need to work closely together on complex projects.  But I don't belong to any MS-cult since I really don't need to be re-assuring myself constantly about my choices since I already feel secure in those choices.

Hah ha ha, you are every bit the MS fanboy you complain about seeing in OSS.  If Corona_Coder went through the transporter in Star Trek to the Mirror Universe his double would be you, except you're both annoying as fsck.

k2t0f12d wrote:



BitFlipper wrote:  The answer is simple:  They don't need one. When I go to places like Slashdot, or God-forbid, any Apple centric website, what I see is a group of people that are fueled by their need to belong to a "support group".  These people are motivated by the insecurity of their platform choice.  Being in the minority, they need to constantly be re-assured that they made the right choice, and that Microsoft sucks.  They seem to be obsessed by this.  It is pretty pathetic to watch thread after thread on Slashdot where most of the people are consumed by their absolute vitriol against MS.  They don't even make sense anymore. They have convinced themselves that MS is the devil himself and automatically assume everything MS does is deeply flawed. I myself don't feel this way.  I use both MS software and OSS.  Since I don't care either way if the software I use is from MS or not, I think I am in a better position to judge the "suckyness" of software than these people blinded by their hatred.  As such, I can say that in most cases the OSS is less polished, usually lacking important features (menu actions that go nowhere), often abandoned (Sourceforge is a graveyard of half-backed projects)  and don't integrate well with any other application.  Nothing even comes close to MS development tools.  And if anyone these days are doing the innovation when it comes to software development, it is MS.  Look at things like LINQ or Silverlight and its new DLR.  Is there anything even close to this in OSS? Anyway, yes, I guess in general you can call me pro-MS, but it is because I can see that what they do is pretty amazing and that there is real value in having large groups of developers that need to work closely together on complex projects.  But I don't belong to any MS-cult since I really don't need to be re-assuring myself constantly about my choices since I already feel secure in those choices.

Hah ha ha, you are every bit the MS fanboy you complain about seeing in OSS.  If Corona_Coder went through the transporter in Star Trek to the Mirror Universe his double would be you, except you're both annoying as fsck.

If what you say is true and I am indeed an MS fanboy, doesn't that kind of disprove the notion that there is no MS "cult"?

On the other hand, I said I am agnostic towards what software I use, either from MS or from anyone else (including OSS).  As such I am open to using whatever is the best tool for the job, and don't limit myself to Anything But Microsoft software.  I find that for many things, ABM solutions truly suck.  And, not limiting myself in that way, when I find MS software that does the job better, I actually use it.  I even pay for software [gasp!!] when I think it is something I can't be without (both MS and non-MS software).

Shouldn't you be sitting in a circle right about now, holding hands with all the other Slashdotters, taking turns standing up and telling the others your tearful story about how all of your my-platform-of-choice-is-a-failure problems are all related to Teh Evil M$?  Oh, and making tired old "jokes" about BSOD, flying chairs and DRM that magically prevents you from playing your non-DRMed music?

mVPstar wrote:

A cult of over 90% of computer PC users isn't very much of a cult.

Fixed that for you.

BitFlipper wrote:

If what you say is true and I am indeed an MS fanboy, doesn't that kind of disprove the notion that there is no MS "cult"?On the other hand, I said I am agnostic towards what software I use, either from MS or from anyone else (including OSS).  As such I am open to using whatever is the best tool for the job, and don't limit myself to Anything But Microsoft software.  I find that for many things, ABM solutions truly suck.  And, not limiting myself in that way, when I find MS software that does the job better, I actually use it.  I even pay for software [gasp!!] when I think it is something I can't be without (both MS and non-MS software).

How can you be software agnostic?  What does that mean?  Software that asserts that it is impoosible to know if there is a God?  Can't you just say totally unbiased as to the software you use?  Except that isn't true at all.

Bit Flipper wrote:

Shouldn't you be sitting in a circle right about now, holding hands with all the other Slashdotters, taking turns standing up and telling the others your tearful story about how all of your my-platform-of-choice-is-a-failure problems are all related to Teh Evil M$?  Oh, and making tired old "jokes" about BSOD, flying chairs and DRM that magically prevents you from playing your non-DRMed music?

I would be but I'm not a Slashdotter.  I think I find that site mostly as annoying and/or useless as you do, except I neither go there nor b1tch about it here.  I haven't had any problems with my platform of choice, and haven't had any difficulties with media for the same reason (though good memory on the DRM flame session, I am impressed).  As far as you being Corona_Coder's {evil,good} double, you must be the one who got the sense of humour cause that made me smile, although Coder has never done so. 

k2t0f12d wrote:



How can you be software agnostic?  What does that mean?  Software that asserts that it is impoosible to know if there is a God?  Can't you just say totally unbiased as to the software you use?  Except that isn't true at all.

It just means that I don't care who wrote the software.  If the software itself solves a problem for me then I will used/buy it.  As such I use MS software, software from 3rd parties (including paid software) as well as OSS.  Basically, I don't limit myself to a smaller pool of software just because of some political or religious reason.  Life is too short to limit my own choices in that way.

k2t0f12d wrote:


I would be but I'm not a Slashdotter.  I think I find that site mostly as annoying and/or useless as you do, except I neither go there nor b1tch about it here. 

I usually don't b1tch about Slashdot either.  But in this case the whole point of this thread is about software cults and it doesn't get anymore anti-MS cult than Slashdot.  Well, there is of course the whole Mac cult but those people are even more fanatical.  Kind of a lost cause. At least with Slashdot there are a few of those people that are smart enough to be somewhat objective.

BitFlipper wrote:

It just means that I don't care who wrote the software.  If the software itself solves a problem for me then I will used/buy it.  As such I use MS software, software from 3rd parties (including paid software) as well as OSS.  Basically, I don't limit myself to a smaller pool of software just because of some political or religious reason.  Life is too short to limit my own choices in that way.

I disagree.  The definition of agnostic doesn't describe that stance toward software at all.  Nothing I see in either camp seems religious to me, but I already practice a religion that isn't based at all on mathematics or computers.  The politics get heavy though, which I agree with you are both useless and annoying for the most part.

BitFlipper wrote:

I usually don't b1tch about Slashdot either.  But in this case the whole point of this thread is about software cults and it doesn't get anymore anti-MS cult than Slashdot.  Well, there is of course the whole Mac cult but those people are even more fanatical.  Kind of a lost cause. At least with Slashdot there are a few of those people that are smart enough to be somewhat objective.

Sorry about the /. thing then.  I don't frequent there because it is distracting to my interest in digging into the root of computers.  I don't have to hear which dastardly thing Microsoft has done over and over to realize what their leadership is all about, or that they are anything other then what they are, a steaming pile of double-talking weaselly Harvard brats.  They'd all sell their mothers down the river without paddles if they could get away with it, and doesn't do me a bit of good to get bent about it.

In most organizations you will find true believers.

There on Channel 9 all the time.

Just smile.

Do not drink the "free" drinks, especially the chocolate milk.

Bring your own.