Why are we here?

..no - not that here... but here here?

Rossj's post ( here ) plus the events of this week..
-the mistake week- got me to think

Coffeehouse:  it's half empty - or it's half full.

Ill always continue to post ideas blindly - but i can see why some might want more direct feedback - if they decide to participate/add value..

So - question: ARE you really watching us?  if you are..tell us how?  Has any C9 data gone to data mining / survey companies?  were there any results?  can we know about them?

i think we would most likely be happy to know if we are in surveys / making a difference... in a small way

im on half full side already- but letting us no your experiments - would be great

I'm kinda half-full, too. But it might be because I'd just finish a Lean Cuisine Grilled Chicken Alfredo. Yum.

I don't know how much attention Marketing(tm) is paying to C9. I assume it's > 0. But, frankly, I'm too lazy to care. C9 will be judge daily upon its own merit.

jamie wrote:


Rossj's post ( here ) plus the events of this week..

Bah, that post was totally upstaged by Minh's classic on the same page.

Minh wrote:

Minh wrote:  Either Charles shares his account, or he's schizophrenic.

There's nothing wrong with sharing accounts. And get off your high horse. Dork!

Microsoft have many avenues for talking to customers. Channel 9 is just one of those avenues and, to be blunt, I think it's a very unimportant one if you're talking a true "conversation" rather than simply a web site that posts videos and a few other resources for the developer "community".

For those Microsoft staff who have influence time that could be spent sorting through the endless threads here, which let's face it consist primarily of the same few people (with vested interests that are often completely untypical of the customers Microsoft is dealing with or wants to deal with) posting the same general wibble, is time that would be much better spent elsewhere, whether it's through closer involvement with the various user groups, those involved with the various programs like TAP or Microsoft Connect that Microsoft runs, those who respond to very specific blogs, the MSDN technical forums or whatever.

I think this is the point where Charles pops in to deliver his "rah! rah! rah!" evangelism speech about how important C9 is to Microsoft, that it isn't just about the forums, but that everyone's input here is appreciated etc etc  but anyone who's hung out here for more than a few weeks knows that the forums are mainly a small minority of various oddballs (yes, I count myself in that group) chatting about stuff that is so often "off topic" that it just isn't worth the time sorting through the debris to find the one or two pearls of wisdom or subjects of interest, particularly when the "participating audience" here on the forums is so small. And that's before the endless verbiage from trolls is added into the mix.

I was going to post a proper reply, but it looks like Irascian has put it so much more elegantly than I could have.

Personally I now treat C9 as a place where I can have a conversation with my peers, people I consider (if not friends as such - after all we have never met) at least people I would be more than comfortable having a good old ramble with down at the local pub.  I know this is true of Forum's all over the web, but I chose one, stuck to it (with a couple of little hissy fits/tantrums in the middle) and tried to contribute to - and even the people who slam me for being a Mac Fanboi are people that I would still enjoy having a drink with, after all they care enough to respond to my random ILuvApple posts.

Even with the tumble-weeds twirling by, and the lack of love from its maker, I still like the Coffeehouse.

Surely deserving of a ..

GROUP HUG!

Rossj wrote:


GROUP HUG!

Okkaaaayyy. Time somebody switched to decaf, methinks....

AndyC wrote:



Rossj wrote:  GROUP HUG!

Okkaaaayyy. Time somebody switched to decaf, methinks....

Come on, don't be shy..

Rossj wrote:


Come on, don't be shy..

I don't hug. Except when I'm drunk. Then I hug too much....

jamie wrote:

..no - not that here... but here here?

Rossj's post ( here ) plus the events of this week..
-the mistake week- got me to think

Coffeehouse:  it's half empty - or it's half full.

Ill always continue to post ideas blindly - but i can see why some might want more direct feedback - if they decide to participate/add value..

So - question: ARE you really watching us?  if you are..tell us how?  Has any C9 data gone to data mining / survey companies?  were there any results?  can we know about them?

i think we would most likely be happy to know if we are in surveys / making a difference... in a small way

im on half full side already- but letting us no your experiments - would be great

I think this question has been asked before and the reply is always "we're listening!" and "keep on posting!". Yet...I never really see any tangible evidence that anybody truly is listening. My personal reasons for being here have changed substanitally over time. I've gone from "hmmm, I wonder what it would be like to work at Microsoft" to "wow, no thanks, you couldn't pay me enough to work there". I've also gone from "this site really does listen to developers/user" to "hello? HellooooooOOO? Is anybody listening?" to "this feels like a marketing site of some sort" to "I really don't give a crap anymore what it is".

I think some of the most telling moments of this forum has been when Scoble and Charles bicker back and forth about the founding principles of this site. I can never quite tell who is telling the truth, but I never felt like we got the complete story. This used to bother me a lot...now I really just don't care anymore.

I don't watch the videos anymore...I might check out a screencast once in a while. I guess I come back for Jamie's cartoons, Ross' Apple posts, Beer's ongoing Linux battles, and well...it's the community and level of experience in the developers here that brings me back...but, much to the surprise of Charles, Rory, and Company, it is NOT because of anything Microsoft is doing.

I never realised that C9 was about "Microsoft listening to the community". It's about taking a peek inside the cockpit. And it does just that. Nobody ever said anything about anyone looking back.

If you tune to channel 9 in an airplane, you hear what's going on in the cockpit. That's what it's for. It's not for informing the pilot that you know a better route.

Bas wrote:

I never realised that C9 was about "Microsoft listening to the community". It's about taking a peek inside the cockpit. And it does just that. Nobody ever said anything about anyone looking back.

If you tune to channel 9 in an airplane, you hear what's going on in the cockpit. That's what it's for. It's not for informing the pilot that you know a better route.

The Readme.txt document on this site states:

Channel 9 Readme wrote:

1. Channel 9 is all about the conversation. Channel 9 should inspire Microsoft and our customers to talk in an honest and human voice. Channel 9 is not a marketing tool, not a PR tool, not a lead generation tool.

3. Learn by listening. When our customers speak, learn from them. Don't get defensive, don't argue for the sake of argument. Listen and take what benefits you to heart.

From my understanding, conversation implies "listening".

thumbtacks2 wrote:



Bas wrote: I never realised that C9 was about "Microsoft listening to the community". It's about taking a peek inside the cockpit. And it does just that. Nobody ever said anything about anyone looking back. If you tune to channel 9 in an airplane, you hear what's going on in the cockpit. That's what it's for. It's not for informing the pilot that you know a better route.

The Readme.txt document on this site states:

Channel 9 Readme wrote: 1. Channel 9 is all about the conversation. Channel 9 should inspire Microsoft and our customers to talk in an honest and human voice. Channel 9 is not a marketing tool, not a PR tool, not a lead generation tool. 3. Learn by listening. When our customers speak, learn from them. Don't get defensive, don't argue for the sake of argument. Listen and take what benefits you to heart.

From my understanding, conversation implies "listening".

That doesn't necessarily imply "they talk and we listen." And it certainly doesn't mean "listen to what they suggest and then do it."

Bas wrote:



thumbtacks2 wrote:  Bas wrote: I never realised that C9 was about "Microsoft listening to the community". It's about taking a peek inside the cockpit. And it does just that. Nobody ever said anything about anyone looking back. If you tune to channel 9 in an airplane, you hear what's going on in the cockpit. That's what it's for. It's not for informing the pilot that you know a better route. The Readme.txt document on this site states: Channel 9 Readme wrote: 1. Channel 9 is all about the conversation. Channel 9 should inspire Microsoft and our customers to talk in an honest and human voice. Channel 9 is not a marketing tool, not a PR tool, not a lead generation tool. 3. Learn by listening. When our customers speak, learn from them. Don't get defensive, don't argue for the sake of argument. Listen and take what benefits you to heart. From my understanding, conversation implies "listening".

That doesn't necessarily imply "they talk and we listen." And it certainly doesn't mean "listen to what they suggest and then do it."

Oh, I'm not saying they should react and implement everything that is suggested here...but it doesn't even seem like any "listening" is even occuring in the first place. Therefore, it amounts to a one-way communications channel. However, if "conversation" is the real goal, then wouldn't it be important to say "here's why we are not going to implement idea xyz"?

Well I've seen a few instances when someone unexpected has popped in to answer a question or set someone straight.

I had a question on the Windows Home Server answered, and I remember there was a fella here who insisted that the next version of VS wasn't going to have an Express version.

So I reckon someone is watching, but not too closely.