Six months out and Vista has yet to surpass OS X

Should happen next month though...

Vista use grows as Mac OS X stays flat
Microsoft's OS should pass Apple's next month

And this is that Vista is forced, cough, pre-loaded on new PCs (as is OS X)

cool article thanks

you know.. im really getting tired of the inertia comparisons..

all i know is vista is weird and it better be fixed

- no system slow down drm, less big brother validation, less alerts, faster copying, restoration of 10 yr nav structure (folders/list/up - properly) 5 new ult extras, 2 new themes in sp1 - with office style theme for sure... bla bla   i shut up

jamie wrote:



- no system slow down drm

... and what level of slowdown are you experiencing?

jamie wrote:


, less big brother validation, less alerts,

I think this is one of those things that doesn't seem to affect that many people. I can imagine that it would become a real pain if you spend a lot of time installing and de-installing software. But if you do that, then you could just turn off the alerts. And exactly how many times has Windows asked you to validate? I installed Vista once and new machine and I have validated Windows and Office, nothing else seems to ask for it.

jamie wrote:


faster copying, restoration of 10 yr nav structure (folders/list/up - properly)

Mmm .... again, I hear this one a lot, but have never seen it. Could be that I only copy small groups of files or something ....

jamie wrote:


5 new ult extras, 2 new themes in sp1 - with office style theme for sure... bla bla   i shut up

Yes, I think this is a class-action waiting to happen, and rightly so. Ultimate users have been ripped off, pure and simple.

rcardona wrote:

Should happen next month though...

Vista use grows as Mac OS X stays flat
Microsoft's OS should pass Apple's next month

And this is that Vista is forced, cough, pre-loaded on new PCs (as is OS X)

Bull.

No-one is forced (cough, hack, clears throat) to get Vista. Folk are free to buy a Mac or a Linux box if they want to. The Linux box is offered by one of the world's biggest computer sellers, and they will also give you XP on a machine if you ask for it.

So tell me, where is Vista being forced onto new PCs when I can still have XP as an option?

... and given the bad press and poor marketing, I'm surprised that Vista has managed to catch up with Mac installations this quickly.

Nice spin on the original article though ....

Apple's stagnet marketshare is directly contributed by Apple's instance to overprice their PCs.

The cheapest Mac PC now costs $600 while the specs aren't really any better than a bargain PC you can get for $250-300 elsewere. In fact, I bet you'd be lucky to find a seven year old sub-1 GHz G4 Mac for that price.

I've seen Core 2 Duo systems for just over $400, whereas the cheapest iMac is $1000 with overall lesser specs.

Anyway... thats Apple's situation, IMHO. Perhaps this is intentional? Maybe Apple doesn't have the manufactoring power to yield to the rising demand if Apple were to reduce their prices?

True.

At this point Windows has a self-sustainable momentum.

It's such a ubuiquitous platform that few can afford to ignore it.

That doesn't necessarily translate into instant upgrades.

It's not quite the same with processor manufacturers Intel and AMD, as their processors are pretty transparent wrt Windows.

But as long as Intel kicks AMD's behind with superb performance, they don't need to rely as much on anti-competitive tactics.

Chinmay007 wrote:



Ray6 wrote:  I think this is one of those things that doesn't seem to affect that many people. I can imagine that it would become a real pain if you spend a lot of time installing and de-installing software. But if you do that, then you could just turn off the alerts. And exactly how many times has Windows asked you to validate? I installed Vista once and new machine and I have validated Windows and Office, nothing else seems to ask for it.

You know, it effects me and it likely effects lots of other sysadmins. I'm am royally sick and tired of having to call Microsoft India literarly every week to prove to some call center monkey that me and my organization are not a bunch of criminals. It pisses me off #1 of anything in Windows. Hell Windows could BSOD 5 times per day and I wouldn't give a damn, but this WGA spyware is hell.

I'd like to have more details about your situation. None of my installs and none of my friends' installs have had any WGA problem, so I would love to understand exactly what is your issue and try to see if it can be fixed in the future.

Chinmay007 wrote:

Computers around my organization will simply fail WGA (completely randomly), and thanks to the new May "critical update" which, the WGA now displays messages to the users claiming that they are a "victim of software piracy".

That's exactly zero details. I'll need to see event logs, screenshots, what do you have installed, product keys, the status of the updates, etc..

If you want serious help (and not just random ranting), provide me with serious data to help you.

Chinmay007 wrote:

Did he try to sell you anything but the laptop? Anti-virus, service plans, mice, etc? If he didn't he's really just a bad salesperson.

Actually, he's a salesperson that I will recommend to friends and to who I'll go back when I need to buy more equipment

Chinmay007 wrote:

That has nothing to do with it, and let me explain to you a little how the computer industry works. There are computers that Dell, HP, etc. sell, that ARE NOT FOR SALE. Let me explain this a bit better, these are computers that they do not want to sale? WHAT? How dare a retail establishment not want to sell the all consuming consumer something? Simple.

Apple is simply not in the business of selling loss leaders. And really, no establishment is... the goal is to sell as few loss leaders as possible. As a former electronics salesperson I can tell you that every loss leader you sell as a NEGATIVE mark on your daily performence. It's much better to sell $0 of product then $20,000 of loss leaders, hell, I'll be suprised if you still have a job after you cost the company that much money. So next time you are in Best Buy or Circuit City and you want your P.O.S. $400 laptop, and wonder why the salesperson is stalling you for 45 minutes, trying to sell you other laptops and other products like service plans, and then finally saying it's out of stock (it never is) - remember why.

I dont thinks so.

If there was a loss for every systems sold, the vendor would eventually put restrictions on its use. Selling PCs would become like game consoles, where the user only has the right to do certain things with it.

What Apple does is simular to what the top gaming system brands like Voodoo, Falcom Northwest and Alienware do: jack up the price of their systems for the popular brand name label.

Vista hasn't even surpassed Windows 2000.

Chinmay007 wrote:



PaoloM wrote:  Chinmay007 wrote: Computers around my organization will simply fail WGA (completely randomly), and thanks to the new May "critical update" which, the WGA now displays messages to the users claiming that they are a "victim of software piracy". That's exactly zero details. I'll need to see event logs, screenshots, what do you have installed, product keys, the status of the updates, etc.. If you want serious help (and not just random ranting), provide me with serious data to help you.

Product keys, software we have installed on our machines, and updating information, are proprietary and confidential information.

Well, then you cannot get any help. Good luck.

Chinmay007 wrote:


Product keys, software we have installed on our machines, and updating information, are proprietary and confidential information.

Yup. As I said, alot of people bang on about WGA troubles, but strangely enough, are unable or unwilling to provide any evidence.

So you say that WGA is saying that you have pirated software; you say it is wrong, but you don't want MS to look at the WGA info to see what the problem is ...

Mmmmm ... okay.

thiebaude wrote:

Vista hasn't even surpassed Windows 2000.

Neither has Linux, neither has MacOSX.

But out of Vista, Linux and MacOSX, which do you think will surpass it first?

Ray6 wrote:



Chinmay007 wrote:  Product keys, software we have installed on our machines, and updating information, are proprietary and confidential information.

Yup. As I said, alot of people bang on about WGA troubles, but strangely enough, are unable or unwilling to provide any evidence.

So you say that WGA is saying that you have pirated software; you say it is wrong, but you don't want MS to look at the WGA info to see what the problem is ...

Mmmmm ... okay.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were certain combinations of drivers/software/imaging that somehow damaged Windows so that WGA read a false positive. But, like you say, Microsoft needs to be able to examine these cases.

People refuse to tell Microsoft anything, and then complain when WGA tries to phone home and give Microsoft even a shred of debug data.

I don't get it. I've never even heard of a problem with a legitimate install of Windows in my circle of acquaintances, and it's a pretty ecclectic bunch of machines. Of course Vista works great on every machine I've seen, and I have no end of trouble with Firefox. Maybe I've got different (better!) Computer Mojo than you do.

Chinmay007 wrote:



That has nothing to do with it, and let me explain to you a little how the computer industry works. There are computers that Dell, HP, etc. sell, that ARE NOT FOR SALE. Let me explain this a bit better, these are computers that they do not want to sale? WHAT? How dare a retail establishment not want to sell the all consuming consumer something? Simple.

Apple is simply not in the business of selling loss leaders. And really, no establishment is... the goal is to sell as few loss leaders as possible. As a former electronics salesperson I can tell you that every loss leader you sell as a NEGATIVE mark on your daily performence. It's much better to sell $0 of product then $20,000 of loss leaders, hell, I'll be suprised if you still have a job after you cost the company that much money. So next time you are in Best Buy or Circuit City and you want your P.O.S. $400 laptop, and wonder why the salesperson is stalling you for 45 minutes, trying to sell you other laptops and other products like service plans, and then finally saying it's out of stock (it never is) - remember why.

For one thing, Apple is one of the biggest 'extras' sellers going. Look at the outrageous price they charge for extra memory for one thing. Oh, and when you buy a Mac laptop, then you'd better buy that expensive AppleCare insurance (which brings Apple's guarantee up to the same level that I can get from most PC vendors for free), because the quality of Apple machines is still questionable at best. No the reason that Apple makes such a huge margin is because they have their machines built at the lowest possible price and sell them at higher prices than most other resellers. Nothing wrong with that of course; no-one twists your arm to make you buy a Mac.

But my favourite bit of Apple cheek, has to be the iPod leather case.

Now that's what I call a rip off ....

Still, it is a very common trick though; supply poor accessories as standard, so that folk are compelled to buy a more expensive one to replace it.


But really, your point doesn't actually make a difference anyway. No matter what the motives of the resellers are, the fact is that I can go into any PC dealer and get a cheaper machine than the equivalent Mac. Will they try to sell me something extra? Maybe. Do I have to buy it? No.

Xaero_Vincent wrote:



What Apple does is simular to what the top gaming system brands like Voodoo, Falcom Northwest and Alienware do: jack up the price of their systems for the popular brand name label.

... and you can add Sony to that list, though they do make some of the nicest looking machines.

It's all about the branding ....

Chinmay007 wrote:



Ray6 wrote:  Chinmay007 wrote:  Product keys, software we have installed on our machines, and updating information, are proprietary and confidential information. Yup. As I said, alot of people bang on about WGA troubles, but strangely enough, are unable or unwilling to provide any evidence. So you say that WGA is saying that you have pirated software; you say it is wrong, but you don't want MS to look at the WGA info to see what the problem is ... Mmmmm ... okay.

Microsoft really has no business in examining the contents of my organization's computer systems. There are things that some researchers do here that can comprise national security if let out into the open. When the software and tools you use aren't loyal to you, it's simply not a good thing.

Nice idea in theory, but the reality is that you can't solve a problem if you can't see the symptoms. 

Probably, since you seem to work in an area that needs extra security, your network folks have put enough 'security' crap on your machine that it doesn't play nice with WGA.  Whose fault is that?

We could debate it all day long, but I will say that my last job was the same situation.  We had so many dodgy vpns and crap we had to install for various clients, that eventually, the install was useless and I had to reinstall XP.