Channel 9 Forums - Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Vasudev — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 05:53:46 GMT

First review of Windows 7 Milestone 1 Build 6.1.6519.1

Is it real ??

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Cybermagellan — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 06:02:30 GMT

In all honesty, I was a Neowin.net Bink.nu member for years....and they've always been pretty accurate on their build reporting....

As far as that goes if you know the right places and the build exist truely, you can get it.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

JonathonW — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 06:08:55 GMT

Other sources confirm that an M1 build has been released to MS partners... maybe this means the Windows department is going to come out of the hole they've been hiding in since Vista was released soon.

The IE team's talking again... now the Windows team needs to do the same.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Long Zheng — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 06:09:31 GMT

I'm going to guess it's real, but regardless there's not substance to it really. As long as we don't make the same mistake we did with unrealistic expecations and release dates, I'm all for a bit of cat and mouse

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Go Microsoft !!!!!!! — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 06:16:13 GMT

fake

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Vasudev — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 06:26:05 GMT

And one cant judge or disappoint by a product at such an early stage.
But somehow I don’t like such leaks, instead MS release the progress of its products at regular intervals for curious people.
I still feel its not real.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Bas — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:21:50 GMT

Reviewer wrote:

New Paint

Blasphemy! :O

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Christian Liensberger — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:39:12 GMT

Bas wrote:

Reviewer wrote:

New Paint

Blasphemy!

And a notepad with multiple undos That would be nice... could be part of the standard text box - i wonder how much more resources that would take

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Bas — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:02:26 GMT

littleguru wrote:
And a notepad with multiple undos That would be nice... could be part of the standard text box - i wonder how much more resources that would take

That would be incredible. If they could also change the way you input special characters like é, ö, and ñ to the way it works in Word, only system-wide, then I'll send a singing love-telegram to whoever is responsible.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Sven Groot — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:59:29 GMT

Bas wrote:

littleguru wrote:
And a notepad with multiple undos That would be nice... could be part of the standard text box - i wonder how much more resources that would take

That would be incredible. If they could also change the way you input special characters like é, ö, and ñ to the way it works in Word, only system-wide, then I'll send a singing love-telegram to whoever is responsible.

What's wrong with dead keys, that works system wide?

How does word do it?

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

eagle — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:22:57 GMT

longzheng wrote:
unrealistic expecations

A PC on every desktop...

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Bas — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:30:53 GMT

Sven Groot wrote:

Bas wrote:

littleguru wrote:
And a notepad with multiple undos That would be nice... could be part of the standard text box - i wonder how much more resources that would take

That would be incredible. If they could also change the way you input special characters like é, ö, and ñ to the way it works in Word, only system-wide, then I'll send a singing love-telegram to whoever is responsible.

What's wrong with dead keys, that works system wide?

The fact that, to me, the 'wrong' behaviour is the default. I want to write a quote more often than an apostrophe or umlaut, but if I type "e, it'll turn into ë.
I have to type a space after the " if I actually want a " character, which makes no sense to me.

In Word, if you want to type "e, you can actually just type "e. If you want ë, you have to type Ctrl+" followed by E. It makes more sense to me: the accents are the exception, while quotes and apostrophes are the norm. So if you want the exception, you need a special key combination.

The US International keyboard layout requires a special key combination if you just want the norm (a quote), while it gives you the exception (an umlaut) by default.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Sven Groot — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:35:59 GMT

Ok, I can see that. I don't really mind the dead-key behaviour myself. The whole quote-space combination is so engrained into my mind that I keep doing it also when I'm on a system that doesn't use them, inserting a lot of unnecessary spaces into the text.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Harlequin — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:01:56 GMT

I can't stand when they annouce the next version of something is going along smooth, and SP1 of the previous version isn't even out yet.

I'm still waiting for SP1 so I can buy Vista.

2009 for Windows 7? Please. Figured they would have learned by now not to set dates so early on. I don't see this coming out until 2010 or 2011. At the very least is should come out in 2010 or 2011. Put releases to close together people get pissed off, like the Windows ME money grab Win2K scare nightmare.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

DigitalDud — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:20:30 GMT

2009 makes sense, as long as they stick to features that don't require epic testing they should ship on time. Vista was slow-going because of lots of large internal changes like entirely new display/audio/network stacks. Probably necessary work from a long-term engineering standpoint, but hard to test, and sell. Win 7 will probably be pretty PM-driven like Office and be all UX and fit and finish stuff.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Bas — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:24:02 GMT

If there are no major architecture changes, but more fine-tuning of what we already have in Vista, then 2009 sound fine to me. Besides, three years between versions used to be the norm.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

DigitalDud — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:28:20 GMT

Bas wrote:
If there are no major architecture changes, but more fine-tuning of what we already have in Vista, then 2009 sound fine to me. Besides, three years between versions used to be just fine.

I think it will depend on the sucess of Vista SP1, if there's still a lot of issues after the service pack it will obviously delay development quite a bit. The EU could also decide to be huge jerks (and probably will).

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Long Zheng — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:07:14 GMT

Harlequin wrote:
I'm still waiting for SP1 so I can buy Vista.

That's silly. You'd make sense if you said "waiting for SP1 so I can install Vista", but there's nothing stopping you from buying Vista today. The price is certainly not going to change, and in fact you'll need to install Vista first to install SP1 anyway. Slipstream might be a reason, but it's not that much of a deal.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

PaoloM — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:27:46 GMT

creditcard wrote:
This sudden spurt of interest in Windows 7 by people here is pretty interesting. I wonder if this will invoke a reaction from Microsoft, as many "out-of-control" topics tend to do here on Channel9. See Dreamscene for example, it almost seemed like it was released as a reaction to a couple of long threads about it. So maybe Microsoft will release some info on Windows 7.

When it's time. Not now.

And there won't be any reaction, it's all nicely planned

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

PaoloM — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:28:42 GMT

Harlequin wrote:
I can't stand when they annouce the next version of something is going along smooth, and SP1 of the previous version isn't even out yet.

I'm still waiting for SP1 so I can buy Vista.

2009 for Windows 7? Please. Figured they would have learned by now not to set dates so early on. I don't see this coming out until 2010 or 2011. At the very least is should come out in 2010 or 2011. Put releases to close together people get pissed off, like the Windows ME money grab Win2K scare nightmare.

Windows 2000 = 2000
Windows XP = 2001

I think the latter did pretty good, eh?

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Cybermagellan — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:35:23 GMT

PaoloM wrote:

creditcard wrote:
This sudden spurt of interest in Windows 7 by people here is pretty interesting. I wonder if this will invoke a reaction from Microsoft, as many "out-of-control" topics tend to do here on Channel9. See Dreamscene for example, it almost seemed like it was released as a reaction to a couple of long threads about it. So maybe Microsoft will release some info on Windows 7.

When it's time. Not now.

And there won't be any reaction, it's all nicely planned

Eh....as an evagelism site Channel9 SHOULD be the first place where interviews and leaks SHOULD come from....having said that internal employees are leaking, etc and Microsoft declares it as "OK"...Jamie has had this thought before...C9 users "In theory" depending on I would say influence/fields should be picked for Microsoft's Betas....who knows though.

Honestly it's been this way since I was downloading Windows ME back in 99...and bought Windows 2000 M3 from a street vendor in Korea for $10.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

PaoloM — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:36:34 GMT

Cybermagellan wrote:

PaoloM wrote:

creditcard wrote:
This sudden spurt of interest in Windows 7 by people here is pretty interesting. I wonder if this will invoke a reaction from Microsoft, as many "out-of-control" topics tend to do here on Channel9. See Dreamscene for example, it almost seemed like it was released as a reaction to a couple of long threads about it. So maybe Microsoft will release some info on Windows 7.

When it's time. Not now.

And there won't be any reaction, it's all nicely planned

Eh....as an evagelism site Channel9 SHOULD be the first place where interviews and leaks SHOULD come from....having said that internal employees are leaking, etc and Microsoft declares it as "OK"...Jamie has had this thought before...C9 users "In theory" depending on I would say influence/fields should be picked for Microsoft's Betas....who knows though.

Could you rephrase that in English, please?

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Cybermagellan — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:45:12 GMT

PaoloM wrote:

Cybermagellan wrote:

PaoloM wrote:

creditcard wrote:
This sudden spurt of interest in Windows 7 by people here is pretty interesting. I wonder if this will invoke a reaction from Microsoft, as many "out-of-control" topics tend to do here on Channel9. See Dreamscene for example, it almost seemed like it was released as a reaction to a couple of long threads about it. So maybe Microsoft will release some info on Windows 7.

When it's time. Not now.

And there won't be any reaction, it's all nicely planned

Eh....as an evagelism site Channel9 SHOULD be the first place where interviews and leaks SHOULD come from....having said that internal employees are leaking, etc and Microsoft declares it as "OK"...Jamie has had this thought before...C9 users "In theory" depending on I would say influence/fields should be picked for Microsoft's Betas....who knows though.

Could you rephrase that in English, please?

Talk more openly to US about upcoming products (namely Windows 7).

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

PaoloM — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:48:59 GMT

Cybermagellan wrote:

PaoloM wrote:

Cybermagellan wrote:

PaoloM wrote:

creditcard wrote:
This sudden spurt of interest in Windows 7 by people here is pretty interesting. I wonder if this will invoke a reaction from Microsoft, as many "out-of-control" topics tend to do here on Channel9. See Dreamscene for example, it almost seemed like it was released as a reaction to a couple of long threads about it. So maybe Microsoft will release some info on Windows 7.

When it's time. Not now.

And there won't be any reaction, it's all nicely planned

Eh....as an evagelism site Channel9 SHOULD be the first place where interviews and leaks SHOULD come from....having said that internal employees are leaking, etc and Microsoft declares it as "OK"...Jamie has had this thought before...C9 users "In theory" depending on I would say influence/fields should be picked for Microsoft's Betas....who knows though.

Could you rephrase that in English, please?

Talk more openly to US about upcoming products (namely Windows 7).

When it's time. Not now.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Cybermagellan — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:01:32 GMT

PaoloM wrote:

When it's time. Not now.

Yes because we see how well that worked out with Vista....

Trust me I understand...really I do where you're coming from...just don't like it...it's not your fault, it's a company fault.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

PaoloM — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:06:33 GMT

Cybermagellan wrote:

PaoloM wrote:

When it's time. Not now.

Yes because we see how well that worked out with Vista....

It didn't work because Microsoft told everything too early. Now, instead of "look what we're going to do" is "look what we did". No false expectations anymore.

Cybermagellan wrote:
Trust me I understand...really I do where you're coming from...just don't like it...it's not your fault, it's a company fault.

I don't see it as a fault at all (mine or the company's). We screwed up with the messaging before, we try to learn from mistakes.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Bas — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:06:59 GMT

Cybermagellan wrote:

PaoloM wrote:

When it's time. Not now.

Yes because we see how well that worked out with Vista....

Uhm, you mean the Vista where they kept openly talking about all sorts of things which ended up getting delayed or scrapped? WinFS ring a bell?

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

me — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:13:42 GMT

*Exclusive* The new Windows 7 WPF Calculator!

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

PaoloM — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:21:35 GMT

Before ANYONE goes any further:

Do not believe everything you read on the internet.

That was a Public Service Announcement

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

evildictaitor — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:41:21 GMT

creditcard wrote:
But no really, I would be quite disappointed if the entire Windows 7 UI wasn't pretty much rewritten in WPF.

You might want to invest in a new handkerchief then. Cos it's not gonna happen.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

brian.shapiro — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:45:01 GMT

Bas wrote:

Sven Groot wrote:

Bas wrote:

littleguru wrote:
And a notepad with multiple undos That would be nice... could be part of the standard text box - i wonder how much more resources that would take

That would be incredible. If they could also change the way you input special characters like é, ö, and ñ to the way it works in Word, only system-wide, then I'll send a singing love-telegram to whoever is responsible.

What's wrong with dead keys, that works system wide?

The fact that, to me, the 'wrong' behaviour is the default. I want to write a quote more often than an apostrophe or umlaut, but if I type "e, it'll turn into ë.
I have to type a space after the " if I actually want a " character, which makes no sense to me.

In Word, if you want to type "e, you can actually just type "e. If you want ë, you have to type Ctrl+" followed by E. It makes more sense to me: the accents are the exception, while quotes and apostrophes are the norm. So if you want the exception, you need a special key combination.

The US International keyboard layout requires a special key combination if you just want the norm (a quote), while it gives you the exception (an umlaut) by default.

Like I said in another thread, they should just upgrade Character Map to be more like Word's Symbol dialog , where you can assign shortcut keys to any special character, with those defaults, and possibly have autocorrect.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

blowdart — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:51:46 GMT

PaoloM wrote:

It didn't work because Microsoft told everything too early. Now, instead of "look what we're going to do" is "look what we did". No false expectations anymore.

Which can also be a bad thing. Right now I'm in a heated discussion with a product team because their projected scenarios really don't work for a lot of real world applications and budgetary constraints, which makes the product rather useless in the eyes of customer requirements I have right now.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

PaoloM — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:52:20 GMT

esoteric wrote:
As to WPF/E, aka Avalon...

WPF = Avalon
WPF/E = Silverlight

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Bent Rasmussen — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:54:41 GMT

PaoloM wrote:

esoteric wrote:
As to WPF/E, aka Avalon...

WPF = Avalon
WPF/E = Silverlight

Damn, you beat me to it. I was editing and expanding the text right there.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Bent Rasmussen — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:58:27 GMT

That's a cheap shot creditcard, and to my knowledge the calculator was written from scratch, providing better accuracy, for example. As to WPF, aka Avalon, imagine the calculations taking place to render that 3D text inside those buttons in W7.

Also, for maximum effect, as many applications as possible should use the scene graph - it'll make RDC more efficient, right!? If the only bitmap in the scene is the background image on the desktop, the RDC may start to become a bit more interesting (well, there could be other WPF bitmaps, but for purity, let's assume not ...

I'm sure there'll be much cooler scene graph architechtures in the future, but for the scene graph approach is really beautiful (the "declarative desktop" and "less is more", as stupid as it sounds).

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

Bas — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:21:27 GMT

intelman wrote:
I can't wait for the next beta of Windows to start...

Me neither. I find Vista to be the best version of Windows so far. If Seven is going to significantly improve on it, then I'm excited.

Coffeehouse - First review of Windows 7 ??

intelman — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:24:30 GMT

I can't wait for the next beta of Windows to start...

Vista is alright and all, but I know that Microsoft has learned a lot, and will deliver a wonderful polished product.

I personally want to see more improvments in "Windows Rot".

http://shippingseven.blogspot.com/2007/11/nothing-on-this-list-will-help-you.html

Honestly a lot of things can be solved by educating developers. Clean installs, clean uninstalls. Installing under a standard user, like Google Talk, no UAC prompts....