Window 7 Worst Feature

To be fair, I might completely be missing something, but it seems as if Windows 7 search feature is horribly designed. It's so bad I suspect I'm being punk'd.

/rant

Microsoft has REALLY gone off the deep end in their attempt to make explorer look and feel more like web browsing. In a prior message I complained about how Microsoft and their breadcrumb explorer (like a web browser), their replacement of the right pane with rich GUIs reminiscent of web UIs in many shell folders... but now they've REALLY done it. They relegated the explorer search function to a edit control placed to the right of the breadcrumb bar and with a magnify glass at the end, just like in Internet Explorer!

Before I get to the reduced functionality, I'd REALLY like someone to explain how and why Microsoft decided to turn "exploring" your computer into a web like experience? It is so ridiculous to try to make two such different applications such as explorer.exe and iexplore.exe superficially look the same. Managing files and folders, and reading news on fark.com are completely different from one another. It feels like Microsoft is unnecessarily artificially conflating one with the other, and in the process they are dumbing down explorer, which IMO results in reduced clunky functionality.

About the reduced functionality, it's difficult to choose where to begin. First I guess is that now you have only one line to type into when you start searching. I kind of usually want a couple of options before I begin my search: file name matching pattern, sub directories or not, and search for text inside files. Now I just get name, and a few VERY lame hyperlink words in the drop down. Ugh. I don't even want to describe how bad using hyperlink words in a combo drop down to select options is with regards to UI design, suffice it to say: it's REALLY bad. Awful.

So more reduced functionality, when I perform a lengthy search and stop it, the results are automatically cleared. WTF? Where is the sub directories option? Where is the search for text inside files option? I specify date modified "a long time ago" ... uhh what is the time range for a ling time ago, and now I can't change it once I've specified "a long time ago". I have to start searching all over again. Where are the advanced search options?

What the search UI should be: A form you fill out like in XP. You know list all the options using text boxes, check boxes, radio buttons, date pickers, etc.

What the search should not be: A single text box (Just like at live.com!).

Ok, so you're complaining about things that were already in Vista?

I love the explorer search box, but it does appear the advanced search pane from Vista is gone, that's not a good idea I think.

The "hyperlink words" you're talking about is actually Advanced Query Syntax, and there's a lot more possibilities than the Windows 7 UI tells you about. Win7 does give you more guidance than Vista in this regard. For instance, type "size:" in the search box and you get a dropdown. Nice, but still not very discoverable unfortunately.

And what do you mean "now I can't change it once I've specified "a long time ago". I have to start searching all over again."? You can just remove that bit from the search box to modify it.

Sven Groot said:

Ok, so you're complaining about things that were already in Vista?

I love the explorer search box, but it does appear the advanced search pane from Vista is gone, that's not a good idea I think.

The "hyperlink words" you're talking about is actually Advanced Query Syntax, and there's a lot more possibilities than the Windows 7 UI tells you about. Win7 does give you more guidance than Vista in this regard. For instance, type "size:" in the search box and you get a dropdown. Nice, but still not very discoverable unfortunately.

And what do you mean "now I can't change it once I've specified "a long time ago". I have to start searching all over again."? You can just remove that bit from the search box to modify it.

Okay, so the recommend approach is to read a manual before using the search function? And then to type long commands (approaching the programming realm here), concatenating search parameters and operators into the tiny single line text box, then wait for results? But be sure you don't stop the search midway or it will clear the results. Also, we really do not support searching for text in files anymore, or the sub directories option.

There is no simple visual interface to just check off search options anymore, you just have to know the query language and type out long search queries when you want to find some text file, but hey it's totally simple, er simplified... See, it's just one text box, not all those confusing search form elements. It's simpler. Awe heck, just fire up cmd.exe, make that full screen, and that's your GUI. Just type one place. "grep -idl hello\bworld *.cpp > search.txt" Totally simplified!

sysrpl said:

Sven Groot said:

*snip*

Okay, so the recommend approach is to read a manual before using the search function? And then to type long commands (approaching the programming realm here), concatenating search parameters and operators into the tiny single line text box, then wait for results? But be sure you don't stop the search midway or it will clear the results. Also, we really do not support searching for text in files anymore, or the sub directories option.

There is no simple visual interface to just check off search options anymore, you just have to know the query language and type out long search queries when you want to find some text file, but hey it's totally simple, er simplified... See, it's just one text box, not all those confusing search form elements. It's simpler. Awe heck, just fire up cmd.exe, make that full screen, and that's your GUI. Just type one place. "grep -idl hello\bworld *.cpp > search.txt" Totally simplified!

Fwiw, I agree that losing the advanced search pane completely is not a good idea.

I absolutely love having a search bar in every window.  Just last night I was looking to add a printer, so I opened Control Panel and typed "printer" in the search box.  Bam, there's the command I'm looking for.

If anything it's a comment on how bad the design of the Control Panel UI is, but don't diss the search box.

I agree that MS could have made AQS a bit more discoverable, but I imagine most users will know the filename they're searching for and won't have problems finding what they want even without AQS.

Sven Groot said:

sysrpl said:

*snip*

Fwiw, I agree that losing the advanced search pane completely is not a good idea.

I filed a bug report about the missing search pane. Anyone who's in the beta can vote on it here: https://connect.microsoft.com/windows7/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=397546

spivonious said:

I absolutely love having a search bar in every window.  Just last night I was looking to add a printer, so I opened Control Panel and typed "printer" in the search box.  Bam, there's the command I'm looking for.

If anything it's a comment on how bad the design of the Control Panel UI is, but don't diss the search box.

I agree that MS could have made AQS a bit more discoverable, but I imagine most users will know the filename they're searching for and won't have problems finding what they want even without AQS.

I think the best search experience I had in Windows 7 was when I was looking for how to enable Aero Glass, and just typed "aero" in the start menu search, which immediately came back with five control panel items about changing the theme (what I wanted), getting more themes, fixing problems with transparancy, et cetera. Interestingly none of those shortcuts had Aero in the title. I wonder how those are found, maybe they're pre-indexed with a bunch of relevant keywords (among which is aero)?

I always loved being able to search the control panel in Vista, but this is even better. Now I don't even have to open the control panel anymore.

spivonious said:

I absolutely love having a search bar in every window.  Just last night I was looking to add a printer, so I opened Control Panel and typed "printer" in the search box.  Bam, there's the command I'm looking for.

If anything it's a comment on how bad the design of the Control Panel UI is, but don't diss the search box.

I agree that MS could have made AQS a bit more discoverable, but I imagine most users will know the filename they're searching for and won't have problems finding what they want even without AQS.

Disclaimer here: I use XP at home and at work, so portions of my complaint apply equally to Vista.

The problem is that many searches don't involve only the file name. Sometimes they involve file contents (a word of piece of text), a file type and modified date, maybe a few file names patterns that have "ai" somewhere in their name but only in this directory.  You know, something other than simple file name match searches would probably be best input through a search form (like how it used to be) rather than into a single line edit control.

/I still don't see the search for text in files or sub directories option
//I still don't understand why Microsoft wants to force explorer.exe to look/act like iexplore.exe

Bas said:

spivonious said:

*snip*

I think the best search experience I had in Windows 7 was when I was looking for how to enable Aero Glass, and just typed "aero" in the start menu search, which immediately came back with five control panel items about changing the theme (what I wanted), getting more themes, fixing problems with transparancy, et cetera. Interestingly none of those shortcuts had Aero in the title. I wonder how those are found, maybe they're pre-indexed with a bunch of relevant keywords (among which is aero)?

I always loved being able to search the control panel in Vista, but this is even better. Now I don't even have to open the control panel anymore.

Another cool one: search for "pritner" (misspelling intentional). It works in Vista too.

sysrpl said:

spivonious said:

*snip*

Disclaimer here: I use XP at home and at work, so portions of my complaint apply equally to Vista.

The problem is that many searches don't involve only the file name. Sometimes they involve file contents (a word of piece of text), a file type and modified date, maybe a few file names patterns that have "ai" somewhere in their name but only in this directory.  You know, something other than simple file name match searches would probably be best input through a search form (like how it used to be) rather than into a single line edit control.

/I still don't see the search for text in files or sub directories option
//I still don't understand why Microsoft wants to force explorer.exe to look/act like iexplore.exe

Sub directories are always included. If you absolutely don't want to search the subdirectories, you can use the "Custom" link at the bottom of the search results to specify a custom location; there you can check a directory and then uncheck its subdirectories. I will agree that this is clumsy.

Searching file contents is controlled by a global setting (Organize, Folder and Search Options, Search tab). The default is to search contents only in indexed locations.

Sven Groot said:

sysrpl said:

*snip*

Sub directories are always included. If you absolutely don't want to search the subdirectories, you can use the "Custom" link at the bottom of the search results to specify a custom location; there you can check a directory and then uncheck its subdirectories. I will agree that this is clumsy.

Searching file contents is controlled by a global setting (Organize, Folder and Search Options, Search tab). The default is to search contents only in indexed locations.

Being forced to change global settings for a one off search operation is a very bad design. It also seems to then force search to file names OR contents, where the intent would be to search for words in certain file names (e.g. search for the phrase "c++" in any file with "resume" in its name). This doesn't seem possible any longer.

Also, these cutesy Control Panel searches above seem like a gimmick at best. They only work when rooted to the Control Panel, and if the Control Panel wasn't such a mess in Windows 7, no one would be talking about them. It's like in your last reply, to control a search operation you now need to go to three places (the search edit, the customize button then check the appropriate folder boxes, and also tools->folder options->search-what to search) ... it's a mess, especially when you consider how simple, unified, and comprehensive search files and are the control panel are in XP.  You can't even get a folder tree while in control panel. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

sysrpl said:

Sven Groot said:

*snip*

Being forced to change global settings for a one off search operation is a very bad design. It also seems to then force search to file names OR contents, where the intent would be to search for words in certain file names (e.g. search for the phrase "c++" in any file with "resume" in its name). This doesn't seem possible any longer.

Also, these cutesy Control Panel searches above seem like a gimmick at best. They only work when rooted to the Control Panel, and if the Control Panel wasn't such a mess in Windows 7, no one would be talking about them. It's like in your last reply, to control a search operation you now need to go to three places (the search edit, the customize button then check the appropriate folder boxes, and also tools->folder options->search-what to search) ... it's a mess, especially when you consider how simple, unified, and comprehensive search files and are the control panel are in XP.  You can't even get a folder tree while in control panel. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

the intent would be to search for words in certain file names (e.g. search for the phrase "c++" in any file with "resume" in it's name). This doesn't seem possible any longer.

That is possible with AQS, just enter the search as "c++ filename:resume".

sysrpl said:

Sven Groot said:

*snip*

Being forced to change global settings for a one off search operation is a very bad design. It also seems to then force search to file names OR contents, where the intent would be to search for words in certain file names (e.g. search for the phrase "c++" in any file with "resume" in its name). This doesn't seem possible any longer.

Also, these cutesy Control Panel searches above seem like a gimmick at best. They only work when rooted to the Control Panel, and if the Control Panel wasn't such a mess in Windows 7, no one would be talking about them. It's like in your last reply, to control a search operation you now need to go to three places (the search edit, the customize button then check the appropriate folder boxes, and also tools->folder options->search-what to search) ... it's a mess, especially when you consider how simple, unified, and comprehensive search files and are the control panel are in XP.  You can't even get a folder tree while in control panel. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

"c++ name:resume"

job done.

I agree with Sven that the advanced search UI ought to be restored, however in 99% of cases you'll find what you want without needing to resort to AQS. Typing "c++ resume", for example, would probably find your document just as well without having to be specific.

Am I supposed to take you seriously with that Avatar?

AndyC said:

sysrpl said:

*snip*

"c++ name:resume"

job done.

I agree with Sven that the advanced search UI ought to be restored, however in 99% of cases you'll find what you want without needing to resort to AQS. Typing "c++ resume", for example, would probably find your document just as well without having to be specific.

Okay, I had a Windows 7 crash there while trying to create a text file to test this stuff out .... so after a hard reset

I set up this example, I want to find ONLY files with "resume" somewhere in the title AND the word "experience" in the contents of the file.

I created two text files on my desktop, one called "resume.txt" the other called "resume experience.txt"
The file "resume.txt" has the word "experience" inside the contents of the file, while the other file does not
Searching "experience" finds both files
Searching "experience name:resume" files both files again

This is not what I wanted. I wanted first search to return only files with "experience" in their names (resume experience.txt), and the second to return only files with "resume" in their name contain the word "experience" in their body (resume.txt).

For the second example, in XP I would just press F3, type "resume" in the file name edit, and "experience" in the file contains edit below, then press search. Simple. Not so with Windows 7.

Skriker V1.0 said:

Am I supposed to take you seriously with that Avatar?

Why, do you think girls shouldn't be programmers, or are you a misogynist?

sysrpl said:

AndyC said:

*snip*

Okay, I had a Windows 7 crash there while trying to create a text file to test this stuff out .... so after a hard reset

I set up this example, I want to find ONLY files with "resume" somewhere in the title AND the word "experience" in the contents of the file.

I created two text files on my desktop, one called "resume.txt" the other called "resume experience.txt"
The file "resume.txt" has the word "experience" inside the contents of the file, while the other file does not
Searching "experience" finds both files
Searching "experience name:resume" files both files again

This is not what I wanted. I wanted first search to return only files with "experience" in their names (resume experience.txt), and the second to return only files with "resume" in their name contain the word "experience" in their body (resume.txt).

For the second example, in XP I would just press F3, type "resume" in the file name edit, and "experience" in the file contains edit below, then press search. Simple. Not so with Windows 7.

In the first search, if you only wanted files with "experience" in their names, you should have said so: "filename: experience".

The second search is a bit more complex, but you can still specify it: "filename: resume contents: experience".

AQS is much more powerful than the old search form, though it's not discoverable and has a learning curve.  As others have said, the form should still exist.  There's basically three "people" that search should target.

Newb: The simple search box is what someone with no knowledge is going to want all of the time.  The fact that it returns more results than they might actually want isn't a bad thing, so long as they can find what they want.  In fact, I used the terms "people" in quotes for a reason, and Newb is just a label, because most of the time for most people this is all that's really needed.  As a power user, rarely do I need to hone my search down beyond this.

Advanced User: So, the advanced user needs to make an occasional search that's narrower than is possible with just a simple keyword search, but not often enough for it to be worth learning AQS.  This is why a form should exist, that's easily discoverable.  This won't give you complete control of the search, but gives you enough to do advanced searches like you're looking for.  If this form were brought back, you'd have no room to complain (though, based on the rant you just gave, you probably would anyway... see later comments).

Power User: Screw the form.  Takes much longer to fill that out, and it simply can't produce the advanced queries I need in any case.  This is what AQS is all about, and what's nice is that the same UI can be used for both the Newb and the Power User.  See, a simple text box is all you really want for searching, unless you fall into that category of occasionally needing more than a simple keyword search but less than full control over the search criteria.  Even for your slightly less advanced queries, if you do a lot of them, you're better off learning AQS.  It's just more productive.  The only issue is the learning curve and the lack of discoverability.

As for the rant about IE being more like a browser:

1.  The stuff you're complaining about mostly has little to do with a browser interface.  Most browsers do not have a breadcrumb, for instance, though I'll grant that the breadcrumb came from concepts used in many web sites.  However, breadcrumbs have been used in non-web applications for about as long as they have been used in web applications.  When navigation exists, which it does here, a breadcrumb is a very useful metaphor.  It's also unusual to see a search UI, on the web or not, that didn't have a single text box.  This isn't a concept borrowed from the web, as it predates the existence of the web.

2.  Like it or not, there are a LOT of similarities here.  There's a reason applications like Explorer are called "File Browsers".  A lot of UI concepts are thus going to be shared between the two.