I want to publicly thank Mark Shuttleworth for his statements so people wont think Im a f$%^cking crackpot anymore.

BTW, with PC/OS 2009v2 a great many refinements have come into the mix and its a lot more stable than 2009, I fixed the RAID bug that caused a kernel panic if certain RAID controllers were used upon install and yes, Im looking into ZippyV's UPC problem that he mentioned in another thread.  Trying to see if its more a GNOME problem or a kernel driver problem.

ManipUni said:

PC/OS? Like PC Operating System? ... Huh?

edit:
The only "PC OS" I could find was an old Linux Distribution with no website... Although that name sounds like a student OS I played around with some time back, if I remember correctly it was just a custom job running on a virtual machine.

PC/OS is still very much alive.  The home page redirects to the developer log because Im currently redesigning it.

http://pcosopensystem.blogspot.com

@ZippyV, I thought the same thing. 

rjdohnert said:

ManipUni said:

*snip*

PC/OS is still very much alive.  The home page redirects to the developer log because Im currently redesigning it.

http://pcosopensystem.blogspot.com

@ZippyV, I thought the same thing. 

Bass said:

I find most interesting in the link you posted the claim that Microsoft is giving away Windows XP for free to netbook OEMs. It seems Microsoft will go to all ends (including harming themselves) to keep Linux off of computers. Ubuntu is self-sustaining even being free of charge, but will Windows be? I really really doubt it. This is a dangerous game Microsoft is playing.

The Register said:

"We are in an awkward situation now because they are giving away XP in the netbook market - they are literally giving it way to OEMs," he claimed.

Ray7 said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Yeah, the reason the Register used the word claimed is because Shuttleworth has no idea what MS is charging OEMs.
 
Giving away XP for free doesn't harm them at all, because that is not their current generation OS. What it does do is establish a beach head for the trimmed down OS which they will charge through the nose for.  MS plays the long game, that's why they're successful. Why do you think they turned a blind eye to piracy throughout the eighties? You think that didn't hurt their bottom line?

Personally, I don't think that Linux is going to make much headway in this market. They should put all their efforts into getting it onto as many phones and set-top boxes as possible. I keep saying this, don't attempt to take Microsoft head on - you will lose! All they need to do is lower prices and you're back to square one. Attack from the flank; that is where the company is weakest because it suffers from terminal tunnel vision. It really cannot see anything beyond the desktop.

Bass said:

Ray7 said:

*snip*

Netbooks ARE the surprise attack. No time in history has Linux desktop had such broad adoption, and it's all thanks to the netbooks. In fact netbooks are a market that started with Linux, the first Asus EEEs were Linux only. Linux was chosen because it can run on low powered hardware and it lacks license fees, both critical to maintaining the low price of netbooks. Microsoft had to come running to Asus, not the other way around.

It's Microsoft that's trying to catch up here, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did give Windows XP away for free to try to dominate netbooks like they do other PCs. Seeing how netbooks are very tight margined, I have no reason to doubt Shuttleworth on this. Even a free Windows might offer Microsoft some respite, but it's not going to stop Linux on the netbook by any means.

Freescale is going to put out ARM netbooks are coming in April, ~$200, running Ubuntu most likely. This will be huge. And Microsoft could pay Freescale $100 per install for all it matters, it wouldn't do any good WinNT doesn't run on ARM.

Lets just see if Microsoft will have an ARM port of Windows 7, and somehow get all their ISVs to make ARM ports, while justifying license fees. I don't see it happening. Good luck anyway! But anyway Ubuntu already fully runs on ARM - all software inclusive.

Do you really think that Linux created the netbook market? Wasn't it rather that the netbook market just needed a free and cheap OS?

littleguru said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Do you really think that Linux created the netbook market? Wasn't it rather that the netbook market just needed a free and cheap OS?

Bass said:

littleguru said:

*snip*

Well yeah that's probably better description. I clarified my original post.

I would argue that MIT to be exact made conditions possible for a netbook. I really think the OLPC showed there is serious demand for small, inexpensive computers which can surf the Internet. And Asus saw it. I would argue that the OLPC while being mostly a failure, "inspired" the EEE PCs which turned out to be huge success. Linux was chosen probably because OLPC choose it too, but probably also because using Linux kept costs down at let them meet their $299 pricepoint. Again, these computers are explicitly designed to be kind of gateways to the Internet, and there is no way you can tell me Windows has any advantage here.

Netbooks are also interesting in the fact that the OEMs are actually spending considerable effort to customize the user interface on their machines. Like HP and the such actually hired software engineers to help write their Linux-based netbook OS. This is almost unheard of anymore except for a company like Apple. We might see much more vertical integration from OEMs in the future. Really I believe if Windows marketshare breaks down it won't be by one operating system but a myriad of different ones coming from the OEMs themselves.

littleguru said:

Bass said:

*snip*

I don't know if that has anything to do with the OLPC or if the netbook is simply the next step in the evolution...

Bass said:

littleguru said:

*snip*

Well I think the OLPC was the "first" netbook in a way, although it wasn't for sale. It's clear to me that the EEE PC was inspired by it.

Well... it's clear to you As long as there's no trustable reference it is not clear to me. The netbook just looks like a smaller notebook and not like an OLPC.

littleguru said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Well... it's clear to you As long as there's no trustable reference it is not clear to me. The netbook just looks like a smaller notebook and not like an OLPC.

Bass said:

littleguru said:

*snip*

Well you are free to your opinion.

Bass said:

Ray7 said:

*snip*

Netbooks ARE the surprise attack. No time in history has Linux desktop had such broad adoption, and it's all thanks to the netbooks. In fact netbooks are a market that started with Linux, the first Asus EEEs were Linux only. Linux was chosen because it can run on low powered hardware and it lacks license fees, both critical to maintaining the low price of netbooks. Microsoft had to come running to Asus, not the other way around.

It's Microsoft that's trying to catch up here, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did give Windows XP away for free to try to dominate netbooks like they do other PCs. Seeing how netbooks are very tight margined, I have no reason to doubt Shuttleworth on this. Even a free Windows might offer Microsoft some respite, but it's not going to stop Linux on the netbook by any means.

Freescale is going to put out ARM netbooks are coming in April, ~$200, running Ubuntu most likely. This will be huge. And Microsoft could pay Freescale $100 per install for all it matters, it wouldn't do any good WinNT doesn't run on ARM.

Lets just see if Microsoft will have an ARM port of Windows 7, and somehow get all their ISVs to make ARM ports, while justifying license fees. I don't see it happening. Good luck anyway! But anyway Ubuntu already fully runs on ARM - all software inclusive.

Bass said:

littleguru said:

*snip*

Well I think the OLPC was the "first" netbook in a way, although it wasn't for sale. It's clear to me that the EEE PC was inspired by it.

Ray7 said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Nope.  Netbooks are a mistake.  For Linux they're a temporary relief at best.  The reasons why Windows doesn't run well on Netbooks will be solved by Windows7 and once MS drops the price for Netbook installs, then we will be back to square one. This is exactly the same mistake that they make time after time, and I think we'll see it again with home servers now that Microsoft seems to have a pretty good solution that beats any Linux based system for ease of use and versatility.

I would like to see a lot more effort in small, dedicated devices because that's where the future is, and that's where MS is weakest. I'd like to see the community get behind the Pre, but of course they won't because someone will come up with one little reason why it doesn't comform to the Stallman dream, and they'll pack their toys and go home. Might not be a bad thing though because I think the Pre needs developers who are more consumer focussed than your typical Linux developer.

Anyway, netbooks are just laptops with bits missing, and with everyone bar Apple reducing laptop prices, I don't think they're a particularly good long term bet.

Bass said:

Ray7 said:

*snip*

Netbooks really got Microsoft with their pants down holding up an OS on life support that was suppose to be long dead. Windows 7, the savior. Windows 7, it'll fix everything. It's seems to be the big promise. But all I can really talk about is right now. Right now Windows sales are doing poorly, Microsoft is out 5000 employeees and MSFT stock is just dismal (Apple is doing just fine by the way, still hiring). Right now we got a new president here in the USA using the words "open source" a little too much and a little too fast. But we will see. Windows 7 is suppose to be the life saver which will maintain the eroding Windows status quo. All I will say: we will see. I have no crystal ball and neither do you.


"Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose." -- Bill Gates

And with that inspirational quote, I am out of this thread! I think I might get a short break at least this place cool down, hopefully Channel 9 will still be here when I get back.

But all I can really talk about is right now. Right now server sales are strong, Microsoft is out 1400 employeees and MSFT stock is just dismal (Apple stock drops as soon as their CEO gets a cold).

Bas said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Fixed that for you.

Presenting only the facts that support your argument is fun!

Bass said:

I find most interesting in the link you posted the claim that Microsoft is giving away Windows XP for free to netbook OEMs. It seems Microsoft will go to all ends (including harming themselves) to keep Linux off of computers. Ubuntu is self-sustaining even being free of charge, but will Windows be? I really really doubt it. This is a dangerous game Microsoft is playing.

AndyC said:

Bass said:

*snip*

The idea that Microsoft "gives away" Windows XP is clearly ridiculous. Comparing prices to retail Vista costs shows a lack of understanding of how the OEM sales model works. Hint for those a little slow: the majority cost of any IT system is after sales support.

Bass said:

AndyC said:

*snip*

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Microsoft would rather gave away Windows for free then have Linux get any gains in the market. That actually makes a bit of sense. Anyway Mark Shuttleworth is probably in a better position to talk about this kind of stuff then anyone here, since he actually does deals with OEMs himself. So I wouldn't know for sure if he is right, but I believe him.

Bas said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Fixed that for you.

Presenting only the facts that support your argument is fun!

AndyC said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Of course it is. Windows XP is still the biggest competitor to Windows Vista. You simply don't undercut yourself, unless you're an idiot.

Bass said:

AndyC said:

*snip*

It's not without precedent at all. Microsoft gives Windows for free to students via their MSDNAA program. Microsoft gives a pack that includes Windows and MS Office for $3 to developing countries. Microsoft is perfectly capable of giving away Windows if it serves them strategically. It's in Microsoft's best interests that Windows maintains the desktop, and this goes beyond selling Windows licenses.

PerfectPhase said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Or the Action Pack, that's as good as free for what's in it!

Bass said:

AndyC said:

*snip*

It's not without precedent at all. Microsoft gives Windows for free to students via their MSDNAA program. Microsoft gives a pack that includes Windows and MS Office for $3 to developing countries. Microsoft is perfectly capable of giving away Windows if it serves them strategically. It's in Microsoft's best interests that Windows maintains the desktop, and this goes beyond selling Windows licenses.

Bass said:

Microsoft gives Windows for free to students via their MSDNAA program.

AndyC said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Nope. Member departments have to pay for the privilege. It may not be very much, but then neither are OEM bulk licences for Vista as organised by Dell etc, or corporate Volume Licences.

AndyC said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Nope. Member departments have to pay for the privilege. It may not be very much, but then neither are OEM bulk licences for Vista as organised by Dell etc, or corporate Volume Licences.

Ray7 said:

What?

Seriously?

Someone wanted you to die of Syphilis because you said Windows7 was okay?

Surely not.