What if MS hardware designed a "sleek" car?

Do you think the steering wheel would either be half the size of a normal steering wheel or perhaps merely half as thick? *

I would also say that leaving out a back button from a mouse is equivalent of leaving out the brake from a car.

* referring to the trend that the only basis of saying otherwise standard keyboard is a sleek one is that function keys are smaller than normal.

I like the idea of making the depth of the keyboard smaller leaving more room on the desk but looking at some of these designs, the space gained with sleek function keys is wasted by having additional depth for the logo. The media keys could be on the left side but such optimal design would leave no room for the enermous MS Logo unless put between arrow keys and del/end/pagedown or below/on the space bar which could look a bit unusual.

Another point of note is the change of location of the calculator key on this model below to the opposing side as seen on the Comfort keyboard. I'm not trying to come of as being opposed to new features but I'm not sure you could argue change of size or location of keys on say a piano (or keyboard) to be very innovative unless there's more to it than just change for the sake of change/sleekness.

I have to add that while it may seem I'm contradicting myself suggesting the move of media keys location and orientation, it should be noted that this idea would satisfy the argument of having another point besides just looking sleek if the point of the move was to make the depth smaller without sacrificing size of the standard non-media keys. Having used the Comfort keyboard I can say that the media keys in it take a chunk of space and I had to make changes to location of my monitor in order to accommodate having a piano-keyboard on the desk in addition to the computer keyboard. If the media buttons were on the left side I wouldn't have had to do that. And a keyboard with less depth is more likely to fit over some larger midi controllers, mine isn't large enough for any pc keyboard so it has to be in front.

They're calling it "sleek" because it has low-profile laptop style keys, not because the function keys are smaller.  The actual depth of the keyboard is smaller than an equivalent with full-size keys.  It's "sleek" relative to a full-size keyboard with standard-profile keys (like the keyboard included in the Wireless Optical Desktop 1000).

Also, the calculator hot key is in the same location as it is on all of Microsoft's other recent keyboards (directly above Num Lock).  Nothing new there (are you sure it wasn't moved just on the comfort keyboard?).

CannotResolveSymbol said:

They're calling it "sleek" because it has low-profile laptop style keys, not because the function keys are smaller.  The actual depth of the keyboard is smaller than an equivalent with full-size keys.  It's "sleek" relative to a full-size keyboard with standard-profile keys (like the keyboard included in the Wireless Optical Desktop 1000).

Also, the calculator hot key is in the same location as it is on all of Microsoft's other recent keyboards (directly above Num Lock).  Nothing new there (are you sure it wasn't moved just on the comfort keyboard?).

Ok I admit I wrote that without doing research into overall market, I thought that the comfort keyboard style sleek was quite standard enough these days not to be mentioned since I haven't used the old style key profiles in years.

Has anyone actually bought one of the keyboards with small function & esc keys? Any thoughts compared to the regular size? I kinda like the ability to use keyboard without looking at it and any changes to size,location and so on of the features that I expect to come as standard (incl my very much used calculator button) just rubs me off the wrong way when looking at what to buy.

If I could design something, I'd make a sleek and low depth comfort curve keyboard with media buttons of left side and volume control as an endless rolling wheel (without the stops, so it sends +1 -1 on turning it, not 0-127) on the left edge.

CannotResolveSymbol said:

They're calling it "sleek" because it has low-profile laptop style keys, not because the function keys are smaller.  The actual depth of the keyboard is smaller than an equivalent with full-size keys.  It's "sleek" relative to a full-size keyboard with standard-profile keys (like the keyboard included in the Wireless Optical Desktop 1000).

Also, the calculator hot key is in the same location as it is on all of Microsoft's other recent keyboards (directly above Num Lock).  Nothing new there (are you sure it wasn't moved just on the comfort keyboard?).

Smaller keyboards mean less material made to make them and less packaging, so they're greener (apparently). Is the market for full-size keyboards doomed?

(Well, at least they didn't mess up the Insert/Delete block this time round)

I'm not trying to come of as being opposed to new features but I'm not sure you could argue change of size or location of keys on say a piano (or keyboard) to be very innovative unless there's more to it than just change for the sake of change/sleekness.

Hear, hear. And that is why the best modern keyboard I've used is this bog standard Dell:



Everything is exactly where you expect it to be. prt scr/scroll lock/pause have moved to the right a bit, but that doesn't cause too much of a worry when typing. But all keys in the right places at the right size is a blessing (and seemingly a rare one) these days.

W3bbo said:

CannotResolveSymbol said:

*snip*

Smaller keyboards mean less material made to make them and less packaging, so they're greener (apparently). Is the market for full-size keyboards doomed?

(Well, at least they didn't mess up the Insert/Delete block this time round)

smaller keyboards mean less material made to make them and less packaging, so they're greener (apparently). Is the market for full-size keyboards doomed?

The only packaging on my keyboard (above) was the cardboard box used for shipping. That's gotta be more environmentally friendly than anything that's got polystyrene/plastic packing in, whatever the size

GoddersUK said:

I'm not trying to come of as being opposed to new features but I'm not sure you could argue change of size or location of keys on say a piano (or keyboard) to be very innovative unless there's more to it than just change for the sake of change/sleekness.

Hear, hear. And that is why the best modern keyboard I've used is this bog standard Dell:



Everything is exactly where you expect it to be. prt scr/scroll lock/pause have moved to the right a bit, but that doesn't cause too much of a worry when typing. But all keys in the right places at the right size is a blessing (and seemingly a rare one) these days.

I wouldn't like that solely becase Calculator,mute,volume keys/control are absolutely mandatory for anything I'd consider. Play/Home are nice to have. I don't know about that Dell but being sleek style like in comfort keyboard and quiet are also important, I like to know when I've pressed a key but by feeling and not hearing it. Annoying thing are keys that make noises just when resting fingers on them not actually pressing them. My current keyboard makes loud wobbly plasticky noises when just gently touching the shift key. God that would be annoying in a midi controller, same as some brand midi controllers that make a loud bang noise when the key hits the bottom. Not in my Yamaha! (made in Japan of course)

GoddersUK said:

I'm not trying to come of as being opposed to new features but I'm not sure you could argue change of size or location of keys on say a piano (or keyboard) to be very innovative unless there's more to it than just change for the sake of change/sleekness.

Hear, hear. And that is why the best modern keyboard I've used is this bog standard Dell:



Everything is exactly where you expect it to be. prt scr/scroll lock/pause have moved to the right a bit, but that doesn't cause too much of a worry when typing. But all keys in the right places at the right size is a blessing (and seemingly a rare one) these days.

Testify!

I love that keyboard.

PaoloM said:

GoddersUK said:

*snip*

Testify!

I love that keyboard.

I have designed (well altered) a new version of the Comfort keyboard for MS hardware in MS Paint. Could you forward this and the notes to the Team? Thanks



Red & white areas denote imporant changes! (also important to keep everything else the same)

1. The wrist pad thing is optional. I'd prefer a lower overall profile with same height keys as comfort keyboard without the pad taking any space. I'd rather have none at all with bit lower height of the keyboard (not keys) than it being optional.

2. caps+scroll+numlock have led lighting in the key to indicate state if such indicator is necessary. Or they could be ultra tiny leds in the just below the usual location beneath the new keys.

3. The area with calculator key gets the Calculator & Home key and some user customizable hotkeys (mail etc).

4. ESC & Function keys are regular size, in blocks of 4 keys. They could be round if something silly needs to be done with the look.

5. On left edge (protruding from side/ edge, not upwards) there's mouse wheel style endless wheel that can be used for volume control.

6. Just right of the volume control, a zoom-style slider that returns to center. Must be user customizable without writing a driver. I want to use it to seek forward/backward in media. Silverlight support this style of "live seek", WMP does not (unbelievable!).

7. Customizeable Forward/backward keys below zoom slider. Can be used for both normal forward backward as in Mouse and alternatively next/previous song.

edit: added ESC to being a regular size as well!

androidi said:

PaoloM said:

*snip*

I have designed (well altered) a new version of the Comfort keyboard for MS hardware in MS Paint. Could you forward this and the notes to the Team? Thanks



Red & white areas denote imporant changes! (also important to keep everything else the same)

1. The wrist pad thing is optional. I'd prefer a lower overall profile with same height keys as comfort keyboard without the pad taking any space. I'd rather have none at all with bit lower height of the keyboard (not keys) than it being optional.

2. caps+scroll+numlock have led lighting in the key to indicate state if such indicator is necessary. Or they could be ultra tiny leds in the just below the usual location beneath the new keys.

3. The area with calculator key gets the Calculator & Home key and some user customizable hotkeys (mail etc).

4. ESC & Function keys are regular size, in blocks of 4 keys. They could be round if something silly needs to be done with the look.

5. On left edge (protruding from side/ edge, not upwards) there's mouse wheel style endless wheel that can be used for volume control.

6. Just right of the volume control, a zoom-style slider that returns to center. Must be user customizable without writing a driver. I want to use it to seek forward/backward in media. Silverlight support this style of "live seek", WMP does not (unbelievable!).

7. Customizeable Forward/backward keys below zoom slider. Can be used for both normal forward backward as in Mouse and alternatively next/previous song.

edit: added ESC to being a regular size as well!

PS i really love the color of the keyboard above as pictured. It should look same except in low lighting! So in bright light it would look very different from the picture. The area on the sides could be few millimeters thinner though but wide enough to accommodate a proper zoom slider (2-3 cm length). Alternatively the slider/stick could be a touch sensitive pad but I don't think that would be as ergonomic and usable.
MS logo could be in the Spacebar but it would be critical to be made such that it doesn't wear off or feel to touch even in years use.

androidi said:

CannotResolveSymbol said:

*snip*

Ok I admit I wrote that without doing research into overall market, I thought that the comfort keyboard style sleek was quite standard enough these days not to be mentioned since I haven't used the old style key profiles in years.

Has anyone actually bought one of the keyboards with small function & esc keys? Any thoughts compared to the regular size? I kinda like the ability to use keyboard without looking at it and any changes to size,location and so on of the features that I expect to come as standard (incl my very much used calculator button) just rubs me off the wrong way when looking at what to buy.

If I could design something, I'd make a sleek and low depth comfort curve keyboard with media buttons of left side and volume control as an endless rolling wheel (without the stops, so it sends +1 -1 on turning it, not 0-127) on the left edge.

I have a Wireless Keyboard 1000, which is pretty much like the picture you posted but with more buttons on the top row for program shortcuts.

I'll have one of these please.

Kolin1 said:

I'll have one of these please.

How are the flat keys for typing on?

Most keyboards have their keys moulded to be slightly indented like a finger shape. I'd imagine the flat keys would feel quite weird?

Anyone used an Apple keyboard and able to say?

GoddersUK said:

Kolin1 said:

*snip*

How are the flat keys for typing on?

Most keyboards have their keys moulded to be slightly indented like a finger shape. I'd imagine the flat keys would feel quite weird?

Anyone used an Apple keyboard and able to say?

We've got a few iMac 24s in the common room in our CS building. Personally I find the keys a little too big, with too much spacing between them, you need to have John Wayne-like fingers to type properly. You get used to it eventually (and the keyboard does feel nice to type on) but I'd have preferred a more ThinkPad-like typing experience. If you've ever used a Sony laptop from 2006, that's what it feels like.

W3bbo said:

GoddersUK said:

*snip*

We've got a few iMac 24s in the common room in our CS building. Personally I find the keys a little too big, with too much spacing between them, you need to have John Wayne-like fingers to type properly. You get used to it eventually (and the keyboard does feel nice to type on) but I'd have preferred a more ThinkPad-like typing experience. If you've ever used a Sony laptop from 2006, that's what it feels like.

i use this



its a lot more quiet than a normal keyboard, easy to clean, and i take it with me

W3bbo said:

GoddersUK said:

*snip*

We've got a few iMac 24s in the common room in our CS building. Personally I find the keys a little too big, with too much spacing between them, you need to have John Wayne-like fingers to type properly. You get used to it eventually (and the keyboard does feel nice to type on) but I'd have preferred a more ThinkPad-like typing experience. If you've ever used a Sony laptop from 2006, that's what it feels like.

Quite agreed. It's too inorganic by design (made to look nice, not feel nice). Although the flat keys are nice, a slight slope and a less space between the keys would do it well. Still, not a complete disaster.