Get rid of VB once and for all!

would be soooo nice if MS would get rid of VB altogether.   lame.

Contrary what cool people on forums say, there's an actual use for VB and it's actually a perfectly decent language.

Wouldn't it be good if we could get rid of these flame-bait posts?

People here on Channel 9 are smart enough to not get rid of this beautiful language.

this [Me] coming from a C++/VB/Java/MSM MUMPS/C#/F# and sometime Python developer. (plus ASP, ASP.NET, XSLT, T-SQL etc.)

What mono-language, hence linear thinking stone have you crawled from?

But bad programmers can write VB in any language   ...

evildictaitor said:

But bad programmers can write VB in any language   ...

You had to pick-me-up-off-the-floor with that jibe. Excellent!

Maybe when C# has XML literals, exception filtering, and the other features VB already has.  They finally got "dynamic" in 4.0, at least, something VB has had for ages.

joechung said:

Maybe when C# has XML literals, exception filtering, and the other features VB already has.  They finally got "dynamic" in 4.0, at least, something VB has had for ages.

People who complain about VB should be forced to write a large scale app in Prolog. That'll learn 'em.

AndyC said:

joechung said:

*snip*

People who complain about VB should be forced to write a large scale app in Prolog. That'll learn 'em.

VB is unnecessarily verbose and imposes stylistic constraints merely so non-technical people can read VB and think they know what's going on; as opposed to C# which prevents PHBs from getting involved.

I also think VB is bloated and too similar to C#. Bring back VB6-like behaviour!

...no, really. Besides Delphi there is no other way to build a simple GUI application that doesn't require any massive framework to bundle it with on XP.

W3bbo said:

AndyC said:

*snip*

VB is unnecessarily verbose and imposes stylistic constraints merely so non-technical people can read VB and think they know what's going on; as opposed to C# which prevents PHBs from getting involved.

I also think VB is bloated and too similar to C#. Bring back VB6-like behaviour!

...no, really. Besides Delphi there is no other way to build a simple GUI application that doesn't require any massive framework to bundle it with on XP.

W3bbo said:

Besides Delphi there is no other way to build a simple GUI application that doesn't require any massive framework to bundle it with on XP.

There are always HTAs which, though often dismissed as not "proper" development by elitests, are  actuallly a pretty neat solution for simplistic GUI tools.

And Prolog is far better at keeping PHBs out, since nobody is ever entirely sure what it's doing.

AndyC said:

W3bbo said:

*snip*

There are always HTAs which, though often dismissed as not "proper" development by elitests, are  actuallly a pretty neat solution for simplistic GUI tools.

And Prolog is far better at keeping PHBs out, since nobody is ever entirely sure what it's doing.

With HTAs you're limited to whatever the ActiveX Scripting engine gives you; and whilst it isn't a true sandbox (thank you, Scripting.FileSystemObject) you don't have the power to directly execute native code defined in the HTA itself.

C# is nice and all, and since Vista comes with the CLR it makes it more palletable today, but it still has its issues. Why do WinForms apps flicker when they initialise, for example?

W3bbo said:

AndyC said:

*snip*

VB is unnecessarily verbose and imposes stylistic constraints merely so non-technical people can read VB and think they know what's going on; as opposed to C# which prevents PHBs from getting involved.

I also think VB is bloated and too similar to C#. Bring back VB6-like behaviour!

...no, really. Besides Delphi there is no other way to build a simple GUI application that doesn't require any massive framework to bundle it with on XP.

From someone whos maintained both VB and C/C++/C# code let me be the first to tell you that the whole verbose/whitespace thing in VB is an absolute godsend. I prefer writing C# but trying to maintain someone else's code can sometimes be a pain in the neck because the language allows you to write complete gibberish.

So, yes, VB is large and has a lot of "useless" syntax within it. But for what you spend writing it you make back multiple times when you try and maintain it.

AndyC said:

joechung said:

*snip*

People who complain about VB should be forced to write a large scale app in Prolog. That'll learn 'em.

Nah too easy, here -- well looks like my love-to-hate laguage is gone!

well i was going to say in "WebBase" it was a version of a SmallTalk for web sites that used stack oriented expressions

it was bugy and a pain to maintain.... i had a job that for about 3 years i had to maintain some code in that mess.....

W3bbo said:

AndyC said:

*snip*

VB is unnecessarily verbose and imposes stylistic constraints merely so non-technical people can read VB and think they know what's going on; as opposed to C# which prevents PHBs from getting involved.

I also think VB is bloated and too similar to C#. Bring back VB6-like behaviour!

...no, really. Besides Delphi there is no other way to build a simple GUI application that doesn't require any massive framework to bundle it with on XP.

W3bbo get real, theres a ton of good VB code out there that's ran all kinds of businesses. and a ton of MS access apps that have helped companies do what they needed to do w/o having to call in the IT dept.

Heck I made good money with VB for a long time....

the only reason I am doing C# today is the boss wants C# cuase it's the "in thing" to tell clients.

that's just stupid...

ManipUni said:

W3bbo said:

*snip*

From someone whos maintained both VB and C/C++/C# code let me be the first to tell you that the whole verbose/whitespace thing in VB is an absolute godsend. I prefer writing C# but trying to maintain someone else's code can sometimes be a pain in the neck because the language allows you to write complete gibberish.

So, yes, VB is large and has a lot of "useless" syntax within it. But for what you spend writing it you make back multiple times when you try and maintain it.

...is the right answer. Readability is a major plus. I have no idea why anyone thinks it's a good idea to only make code readable for an enlightened few.

Bas said:

ManipUni said:

*snip*

...is the right answer. Readability is a major plus. I have no idea why anyone thinks it's a good idea to only make code readable for an enlightened few.

Bas said:

Readability is a major plus. I have no idea why anyone thinks it's a good idea to only make code readable for an enlightened few

You should ask the inventor of Perl.

AndyC said:

Bas said:

*snip*

You should ask the inventor of Perl.

I used to think VB was a 'beginners language' until I read Rockford Lhotka's CSLA (in the old VB6 Business Objects Wrox book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Visual-Basic-6-Business-Objects/dp/186100107X/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242982496&sr=8-9).

I still don't use VB, but I haven't looked down on it since then.

Herbie

Dr Herbie said:

AndyC said:

*snip*

I used to think VB was a 'beginners language' until I read Rockford Lhotka's CSLA (in the old VB6 Business Objects Wrox book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Visual-Basic-6-Business-Objects/dp/186100107X/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242982496&sr=8-9).

I still don't use VB, but I haven't looked down on it since then.

Herbie

Yeah Rocky's no fool, he knows his stuff....  I used to listen to the old DotNetRocks back when they did the live cast with the chat room.

he was great to listen to and ask questions of...

it's not the tool it's the artist and how they use it. Or how the noob can ruin anything by mis-use and abuse.

I think Boo is Visual Basic done right.