• Tailor it to fit to the announcements/SDKs etc released at MIX.
• Submit it to the App store (I know, I know, before you say anything ..)
• Publish the results here.

So that is it in a nutshell.  Who's with me?

* "The way I figure it you hold the phone in one hand then move the magnifying glasss with your index finger of the other hand and when you spot a difference, tap the screen with one of your spare fingers".

 First Gaff: That should be Windows Phone 7!

NB If there is a kindly moderator would like to modify the title I would be most grateful.

Second Gaff: Please don't mistake this as any kind of Windows Phone 7 showcase App. (Hopefully that is obvious)

Secondly: With a touchscreen, you get events only when the finger is touching the screen. So you have have something follow the touch position as if it was a mouse pointer, but then you have no mechanism to detect a 'click'. It's usual in touch apps then to not have anything like a mouse pointer. And it would be redundant anyway since the user can see where their finger is pointing!

rhm said:

First of all: there's no oversized text being clipped off the side of the screen

 

Secondly: With a touchscreen, you get events only when the finger is touching the screen. So you have have something follow the touch position as if it was a mouse pointer, but then you have no mechanism to detect a 'click'. It's usual in touch apps then to not have anything like a mouse pointer. And it would be redundant anyway since the user can see where their finger is pointing!

Thanks for the feedbackl, it is appreciated.

First of all: there's no oversized text being clipped off the side of the screen

I am being dumb, but I don't understand what you mean?

Secondly: With a touchscreen, you get events only when the finger is touching the screen. ....

Take your point(s) but I developed this on a touch screen laptop so I am hoping it will work in the same way on the phone.  (I had to create an offset so that instead of your finger being in the way of what you select, you are holding onto the handle of the Magnifying glass with one finger and 'clicking' with another - granted its not actually a click event!)

TommyCarlier said:

Maybe you could use the frontal webcam to look at the user, track where his eyes are looking and move the magnifying glass to that spot. Then he/she can use his/her finger to click the differences. Shouldn't be very hard to do, right?

That sounds great, I had in mind some cool  Ch9 collaborations on this.  Can you send me the code for the eye tracking gizmo and I will plug it right in?

ManipUni said:

Wow that is one huge graphic on the pointer you have there... It does love to get stuck on everything....

Stuck?  "IT WORKS ON MY MACHINE!" Seriously though, what is it getting stuck on?

(granted, it is one mother of a cursor)

Ian2 said:

ManipUni said:

*snip*

Stuck?  "IT WORKS ON MY MACHINE!" Seriously though, what is it getting stuck on?

(granted, it is one mother of a cursor)

The edges of the canvas.

Ion Todirel said:

I like your enthusiasm, but that's not a WP7 app as the title mentions  

Yep, but I'm hoping to take this app and use whatever goodies are announced at Mix to create a real Windows Phone 7 App (with the same functionality).  The idea is just to demonstrate for my own edification, and for the amusement of CH9 onlookers, just what kind of a mess I can get myself into!  (That said, I hope that the journey will be an incredibly smooth one)

TommyCarlier said:

I would center the mouse pointer on the crosshair: right now you can't reach the right side and the bottom side, because as soon as the mouse pointer leaves the Silverlight surface the magnifying glass stops moving.

"I would center the mouse pointer on the crosshair: right now you can't reach the right side and the bottom side, because as soon as the mouse pointer leaves the Silverlight surface the magnifying glass stops moving."

You will have to take my word for it that this isn't a problem - the alternative (center on the crosshairs) was where I started, but I found that your finger just got in the way!

Admitadly it wouldn't be difficult to fix, but I would have to lose some of the image (or make it less than full screen), which I didn't want to do.

Thanks for the feedback. (I will be buying everyone a virtual cake at the end of this)

ManipUni said:

Ian2 said:

*snip*

The edges of the canvas.

Oh, I see what you mean.  My thinkling is that your finger will be 'off the phone surface' in this scenario so it doesn't really matter (as I said, what I could do is shrink the image a bit).

Thanks for the great feedback.

Ian2 said:

TommyCarlier said:

*snip*

"I would center the mouse pointer on the crosshair: right now you can't reach the right side and the bottom side, because as soon as the mouse pointer leaves the Silverlight surface the magnifying glass stops moving."

 

You will have to take my word for it that this isn't a problem - the alternative (center on the crosshairs) was where I started, but I found that your finger just got in the way!

 

Admitadly it wouldn't be difficult to fix, but I would have to lose some of the image (or make it less than full screen), which I didn't want to do.

 

Thanks for the feedback. (I will be buying everyone a virtual cake at the end of this)

You could rotate the magnifying glass according to the position on the screen. so if you are on the top, bottom, left or right you would always have the magnifying glass facing to the outside edge.

Also allow some single finger or single mouse action by using the double click.

Good luck,

Peter

Ian2 said:

rhm said:

*snip*

Thanks for the feedbackl, it is appreciated.

 

First of all: there's no oversized text being clipped off the side of the screen

 

I am being dumb, but I don't understand what you mean?

 

Secondly: With a touchscreen, you get events only when the finger is touching the screen. ....

 

Take your point(s) but I developed this on a touch screen laptop so I am hoping it will work in the same way on the phone.  (I had to create an offset so that instead of your finger being in the way of what you select, you are holding onto the handle of the Magnifying glass with one finger and 'clicking' with another - granted its not actually a click event!)

The first bit is just a joke about the bizarre visual style of the WP7 user interface.

Second bit: Microsoft's (and to fair a lot of other vendors as well) approach to both pen and touch input has in the past been to just treat it as a proxy for the mouse. You really have to use an iPhone for a while to see how retarded this is. There's no mouse pointer; scroll bars are unnecessary since the most natural way to scroll a document is to just grab it and drag it (like the hand tool in Abobe reader for example). It's all little changes that make it much more natural to use. There might be some special situations where it makes sense to leave something on screen at the point where the user last touched it, but they are few and far between.

rhm said:

Ian2 said:

*snip*

The first bit is just a joke about the bizarre visual style of the WP7 user interface.

 

Second bit: Microsoft's (and to fair a lot of other vendors as well) approach to both pen and touch input has in the past been to just treat it as a proxy for the mouse. You really have to use an iPhone for a while to see how retarded this is. There's no mouse pointer; scroll bars are unnecessary since the most natural way to scroll a document is to just grab it and drag it (like the hand tool in Abobe reader for example). It's all little changes that make it much more natural to use. There might be some special situations where it makes sense to leave something on screen at the point where the user last touched it, but they are few and far between.

OK, I see where you are commng from.  I still have my old iPhone and agree that is sets the standard for touch usability.  I

 Will take this on board and see what I can come up with.

Thanks again for the feedback. 

PeterF said:

Ian2 said:

*snip*

You could rotate the magnifying glass according to the position on the screen. so if you are on the top, bottom, left or right you would always have the magnifying glass facing to the outside edge.

 

Also allow some single finger or single mouse action by using the double click.

 

Good luck,

Peter

The rotation idea apealed to the programmer in me but I suspect might look a bit confusing in use. ( I would probably go for the 'shrink the image, use the leftover space for status' approach).

Re single finger/mouse approach.  Definitly if this was anything but what it is (and OK I might do it anyway!).

Thanks for taking the time to feedback.

Ian2 said:

PeterF said:

*snip*

The rotation idea apealed to the programmer in me but I suspect might look a bit confusing in use. ( I would probably go for the 'shrink the image, use the leftover space for status' approach).

 

Re single finger/mouse approach.  Definitly if this was anything but what it is (and OK I might do it anyway!).

 

Thanks for taking the time to feedback.

From a development point of view it's of course interesting, indeed from a user side of view it's challenging to make it intuitive. You might use two fingers to control the angle of the magnifying glass, or the dragging direction controls the angle. For example the glass is always in front of the dragging direction, this could work intuitive enough, and just average the last few coordinates so it's not too jumpy.

Greetings from a fellow Silverlight programmer,

Peter

PeterF said:

Ian2 said:

*snip*

From a development point of view it's of course interesting, indeed from a user side of view it's challenging to make it intuitive. You might use two fingers to control the angle of the magnifying glass, or the dragging direction controls the angle. For example the glass is always in front of the dragging direction, this could work intuitive enough, and just average the last few coordinates so it's not too jumpy.

 

Greetings from a fellow Silverlight programmer,

Peter

Interesting and quite reasonable, but it would also move it away from the KISS principal, which for now I want to retain (considering I will probably have to rewrite once we know the details of the WinFon7  SDK!)

Thanks again for the great feedback.

Ian2 said:

PeterF said:

*snip*

Interesting and quite reasonable, but it would also move it away from the KISS principal, which for now I want to retain (considering I will probably have to rewrite once we know the details of the WinFon7  SDK!)

 

Thanks again for the great feedback.

the magnifiing glass ... ok you are thying to use the idea of holding the handle it seems...

IMHO lose the handle, it does not really add any value and takes up more room.

while i like a good visual methaphore that relates to the real world in this case i do not think it really works.

why:

1) i can not "see" that i am holding the handle.

2) it blocks movement on part of the screen.

3) you have the cross hair in the center of the lens that says visually that it's my focal point.

so just make the focal point the cross hair and accept that not all real objects need to have identical models in virtual space.

also this will work better on a small screen where you would have issues with the lower right corner.

possibly the cross hair and or the rim can visually cue the user that they are active / clickable / selectable.

figuerres said:

Ian2 said:

*snip*

the magnifiing glass ... ok you are thying to use the idea of holding the handle it seems...

IMHO lose the handle, it does not really add any value and takes up more room.

while i like a good visual methaphore that relates to the real world in this case i do not think it really works.

why:

1) i can not "see" that i am holding the handle.

2) it blocks movement on part of the screen.

3) you have the cross hair in the center of the lens that says visually that it's my focal point.

 

so just make the focal point the cross hair and accept that not all real objects need to have identical models in virtual space.

also this will work better on a small screen where you would have issues with the lower right corner.

 

possibly the cross hair and or the rim can visually cue the user that they are active / clickable / selectable.

Hmmm, hearing quite a lot about the handle issue.  Considering that this is going to be a touch screen app I really dont want to be moving the magnifying glass around using the center of the glass (this is where I started and it is annoying not to be able to see what is under your finger).  I think I will opt for shrinking the image down (aligned to the top and left) and using the space on the bottom & right for something else?

Thanks for the great feedback.

PS Did you by any chance try this out on your TS2 using just fingers? -   I have a slight concern about the availability of more than 2 touch points  as my tablet only has 2 and my methodology for touch screen is probably suspect!

Ian2 said:

figuerres said:

*snip*

Hmmm, hearing quite a lot about the handle issue.  Considering that this is going to be a touch screen app I really dont want to be moving the magnifying glass around using the center of the glass (this is where I started and it is annoying not to be able to see what is under your finger).  I think I will opt for shrinking the image down (aligned to the top and left) and using the space on the bottom & right for something else?

 

Thanks for the great feedback.

 

PS Did you by any chance try this out on your TS2 using just fingers? -   I have a slight concern about the availability of more than 2 touch points  as my tablet only has 2 and my methodology for touch screen is probably suspect!

use the "rim" then .... make it the "grab area"

then it works from any angle and does not need the finger in the middle.

or the whole disk can be the touch / grab area so i can just drag and push anywhere from the rim inward.

No I will try it later .... had a lot going on this week.

figuerres said:

Ian2 said:

*snip*

use the "rim" then .... make it the "grab area"

then it works from any angle and does not need the finger in the middle.

or the whole disk can be the touch / grab area so i can just drag and push anywhere from the rim inward.

 

No I will try it later .... had a lot going on this week.

http://www.streetprices.com/Sports_and_Outdoors/Boating/Navigation_Items/WEEMS-PLATH-412M-SP12619755.html

DCMonkey said:

figuerres said:

*snip*

http://www.streetprices.com/Sports_and_Outdoors/Boating/Navigation_Items/WEEMS-PLATH-412M-SP12619755.html

LOL....

figuerres said:

Ian2 said:

*snip*

use the "rim" then .... make it the "grab area"

then it works from any angle and does not need the finger in the middle.

or the whole disk can be the touch / grab area so i can just drag and push anywhere from the rim inward.

 

No I will try it later .... had a lot going on this week.

OK, fiddled around a bit with the rim concept but code was getting a bit too complex (I am trying to KISS per the concept of an easy port to WP7) so I have put ot on hold until we see what is around the corner.

Thanks for the great feedback..

Ian2 said:

figuerres said:

*snip*

OK, fiddled around a bit with the rim concept but code was getting a bit too complex (I am trying to KISS per the concept of an easy port to WP7) so I have put ot on hold until we see what is around the corner.

 

Thanks for the great feedback..

lagg in movement.

on my tx2 the object is always moving to slow.

also it jumps.... due to the way you are trying to use the handle it seems to move in an odd way to me.

also you need to have it work with the display better. when i go to rotate the display it does not fit. it's not scaling or resizing to adjust.

figuerres said:

Ian2 said:

*snip*

lagg in movement.

 

on my tx2 the object is always moving to slow.

also it jumps.... due to the way you are trying to use the handle it seems to move in an odd way to me.

also you need to have it work with the display better. when i go to rotate the display it does not fit. it's not scaling or resizing to adjust.

Thats great feedback!  Makes me sound dumb but I forgot about screen rotation on the phone!  I'll ponder on that today.  Strange about the lag/jumpiness though, the TX2 is beefier than my Acer tablet so I wouldn't have expected that. Something else to ponder.  If I get the chance this week I wil add a querystring parameter to enable you to (partially?) turn off the Magnifying Glass and see if that makes a  difference

magicalclick said:

I think it would be more fun if it is augmented reality. Use camera to capture the photo and automatically make the difference by replacing the color. Would be even cooler to use zoom and move your camera as magnifying glass.

 

Nice idea, it would be interesting trying to come up with an effective algorythm for automatically making the difference changes to an image captured by the phone.  I like the concept though.

I did try a version where the Magnifying Glass magnified stuff under the cursor - it isn't difficult to do and I was in two minds as to whether to keep it or not. (I might add it as an option via a  querystring parameter if I get the chance this week?)

Thaks again for taking the time to feedback.

figuerres said:

DCMonkey said:

*snip*

LOL....

I guess I'm the only person thinking of keeping the looking glass central and moving the image around (with enough border to allow the corners to be pulled under).

Or lose the glass and maybe use tilting to flip between two images.

LukePuplett said:

figuerres said:

*snip*

I guess I'm the only person thinking of keeping the looking glass central and moving the image around (with enough border to allow the corners to be pulled under).

 

Or lose the glass and maybe use tilting to flip between two images.

Interesting if a little too radical for the scope of this project (I want to keep it simple for the port to WP7).

I'll put up another version in an hour or so - I've yeilded (partially depending on your point of view) to the 'sticky magnifying glass' issue and I'm just tidying things up a little.  

Ian2 said:

LukePuplett said:

*snip*

Interesting if a little too radical for the scope of this project (I want to keep it simple for the port to WP7).

 

I'll put up another version in an hour or so - I've yeilded (partially depending on your point of view) to the 'sticky magnifying glass' issue and I'm just tidying things up a little.  

OK, The above represents the latest version, I've gone for the easy way out (shrinking the image) which left me with some spae to fill (hence the counters on the right and the stats on the lower left).

Thought I might add a couple of sound effects (I know) and then call it a day, pending your feedback?

Go MS GO GO GO!!!!!!

Go Developers GO GO GO!!!!!!!

Dovella said:

XNA Game Studio 4.0 for Windows Phone http://is.gd/a3nPj

 

Go MS GO GO GO!!!!!!

Go Developers GO GO GO!!!!!!!

You're almost there.

I'd fade the looking glass out when the mouse leaves the photo as the sticking effect looks irksome and it cleans the page up so the user can click other buttons and links in the border.

It's actually harder than I imagined it'd be. I s'pose the trick is to scrub the glass and let your eyes 'see' the on/off-ing of pixels. Damn I ruined it for everyone... and I've already clicked Add comment.

LukePuplett said:

Dovella said:

*snip*

You're almost there.

 

I'd fade the looking glass out when the mouse leaves the photo as the sticking effect looks irksome and it cleans the page up so the user can click other buttons and links in the border.

 

It's actually harder than I imagined it'd be. I s'pose the trick is to scrub the glass and let your eyes 'see' the on/off-ing of pixels. Damn I ruined it for everyone... and I've already clicked Add comment.

Thanks for that, I've addedyour suggestion about the mag glass fading to my ToDo list.

Please keep the comments/criticism coming!

Here is my current "TODO" list as it stands at the moment:

• Find some appropriate sound effects (clicked correctly / clicked incorrectly, "TADA" on completion?)
• Constrain / Fade out the Magnifying Glass when out of bounds / ensure links are visible at all times.
• Animate the phone from Portrait to Landscape on startup (or maybe put the phone shell on the web page?)
• Silverlight Splash screen?  (Not sure if this is needed if I can keep the app under 250k?)
• Tidy up the code (group entry points etc)

(I am at a photography show all day tomorrow so probably won't get chance to look at this again until Thursday).

http://www.gadgetcracker.com/2009/06/how-to-iphone-touchosc-pure-data-ableton-live/

Havn't found any suitable sounds to use yet.  Does anyone have any ideas?

Ian2 said:

OK, latest version is up with a WP7 skin. 

 

Havn't found any suitable sounds to use yet.  Does anyone have any ideas?

OK, Sounds now included (pop and tada).  Just need to add the scorechart at the end and it is complete (at least the design!)

Looking forward to MIX announcements tomorrow!

Check out the phone app here (you will need multitouch):

http://gallery.expression.microsoft.com/en-us/SpotTheDifference

Dovella said:

Confirmed: the Windows 7 phone is a Quad-Core, Silverlight 5 phone.

 

via Miguel Deicaza

Awesome,though sounds a bit to good to be true.  Apparently a free updated 'Development Zune' for attendees as well? 

Would someone at Mix please check out http://FromTheMalverns.com/SPOT & let me know what happens (click on the Windows Logo Button to remove the dummy phone surround).

Thanks.

Ian2 said:

figuerres said:

*snip*

OK, fiddled around a bit with the rim concept but code was getting a bit too complex (I am trying to KISS per the concept of an easy port to WP7) so I have put ot on hold until we see what is around the corner.

 

Thanks for the great feedback..

OK, Last time I am going to bump this topic (it just feels wrong for mew to do that all the time).

I have succesfully got the app working on the WP7 phone emulator (with a couple of issues)

Next step (after sorting those issues) is to investigate posting the app onto the marketplace (not sure what the pre-release story is for that just at the moment)

NB To save bumping this topic I am posting interim updates on my blog at rd3d2@spaces.live.com

Thanks for all your feedback and advice with this project so far.

Ian2 said:

figuerres said:

*snip*

OK, fiddled around a bit with the rim concept but code was getting a bit too complex (I am trying to KISS per the concept of an easy port to WP7) so I have put ot on hold until we see what is around the corner.

 

Thanks for the great feedback..

Wow, you might recall my "pre-launch" windows phone app which I posted here a while back.  I just checked the browser stats for the home page and they've rocketed?

Looks like it got featured at the bottom of the Silverlight.net home page (thank you) and the stats went from 5-6 hits a day to 400 a day!

For anyone still interested in the original premiss - I have now ported the app to WP7 (OK port makes it sound quite grand - it just needed a couple of tweaks) 

 I am presently at work on my second and third Windows Phone 7 apps which are a little moe ambitious - I hope to be able to launch those when the platform launches later in the year.