Security - XP & Longhorn

lars wrote:

Exactly what is so bad about SP2, and which rights does it take away?

/Lars.

i just find everything about it rude and demanding. Forced reboot - no Cancel - nag every 5 min till you do - no turning it off

updates that start downloading while your working - saying nothing of what they are doing with no option to stop and hogging alot of resources ( when i have like 80 photos open and frontpage and corel)

"You are not allowed to run this on your computer it may not be safe" - click bar:  ok - what is not safe?
Go to "About this error" option - goes to a lame help page - with nothing about whats on the page thats causing the error ie; "SP2 will not let you run the "make this your homepage" script anymore because its javascript and we are sticking it to Sun" Line 23 .

So you say - OK OK OK OK allow - it says "are you sure cause it can wreck your machine" - it does this everytime with again..NO OPTION to say "Dont bug me about this" - without disabling it entirely

The big red X in my notification area - because i dont have a virus program installed ( have had like 2 virus's in 10 years) and i cant remove it or again say "I no i dont have a virus program DONT ASK ME THIS AGAIN"

i could litterally go on about this for a week.

MS use to be famous for user empowerment - not NO OPTIONS

in regard to loss of rights - thats all the Fullscreen / kiosk mode they have removed/buggered up so as to make it next to impossible to build your own interface on top of windows - like ie 3,4,5,6 have always allowed. In the name of "security" we now have a status bar - even when its off in XP) and a stupid toolbar at the top like poopy Mozilla does fullscreen

(* ps - i run sp2 default - non-customised - as a normal unadvanced user would)

Why not.. change their wallpaper, screensaver and default internet explorer home to some "hacked" page that says something like...

"This is your computer, this is your computer being hacked" .. it sorta worked for the drug arena!

Also.. send a page to their printer and a popup saying the same thing when they log in..

Possibly not even let them log in and say that their password has changed, possibly by a hacker.

hehehe

Jake

  Thing is, you say that like your blaming the home users that haven't patched... I think if people are not patching that means you haven't done your job.

 
NO, not really, you see.
  It is the users fault, they have to get their lazy butt up and download the patch if they do not have autoupdate enabled. They make a mistake like that and they blame Microsoft for it, it makes no sense at all.. 
   That also is a matter of security..
  You want more free stuff as based on security?
  I would not even think about that, if they leave the security to you, i bet that your computer would go dead in a few seconds, there are lots of ppl out there who are just waiting to get in and mess you up for good. Microsofts response to that is to block those people as much as possible, so that they would NOT GET BLAMED FOR YOUR MISTAKES! AND YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT SP2! YOU JUST WAIT TILL IT COMES OUT! YOU WILL BE GLAD THAT YOU HAVE IT! Since most attacks come from online webpage scripts, such as ASP, and install 'secretly,' it gives you a GREATER CHANCE OF LOOSING DATA! MICROSOFT RESPONSE TO THAT IS ADD A 'SCRIPT BLOCKER' TO SP2! THEREFORE PROMPTING YOU IF YOU DO OR IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO ALLOW SCRIPTS TO ON THE PAGE! With the little information bar at the top of the window.
  Security to you may not matter, but that is only one person, just think for a second dude, if Microsoft did not increase its security to greater limits, then everyone could have access to your computer, and to business computers as well, and they would ALWAYS TAKE THE BLAME FOR IT!
  You say that you do not need security, and that you can manage without it, well, guess what, i'am one of those people who say that you ARE WRONG!
   Your bro in Christ, 
 /Steve
  Think about it!

   I think that, with a full retail price of $300.00 (U.S.) for WinXP, each registered user of an operating system should receive a annual replacement disk with a fully updated version (all patches, SP's and updates), Until a more current operating system is released. You could drop it in and be offered the option of updating or boot from it for a full regular install. OEM's could be responsible for part of the cost.
 

Then how do you expect microsoft to get money for further copies of XP? As well as for further projects.....

   I think that, with a full retail price of $300.00 (U.S.) for WinXP, each registered user of an operating system should receive a annual replacement disk with a fully updated version (all patches, SP's and updates), Until a more current operating system is released. You could drop it in and be offered the option of updating or boot from it for a full regular install. OEM's could be responsible for part of the cost.
 

Then how do you expect microsoft to get money for further copies of XP? As well as for further projects.....

lostdude wrote:

I think that, with a full retail price of $300.00 (U.S.) for WinXP, each registered user of an operating system should receive a annual replacement disk with a fully updated version (all patches, SP's and updates), Until a more current operating system is released. You could drop it in and be offered the option of updating or boot from it for a full regular install. OEM's could be responsible for part of the cost.

That is called slipstreaming. It can be done but isn't as easy as it could be. Maybe Microsoft could make it easier to create a slipstreamed disk, that would be easier than creating them itself and then handling the task of distribution.

Steve411 wrote:

Then how do you expect microsoft to get money for further copies of XP? As well as for further projects.....

Maybe my suggestion might be more feasible.

Shining Arcanine wrote:

 

Shining Arcanine wrote:

That is called slipstreaming. It can be done but isn't as easy as it could be. Maybe Microsoft could make it easier to create a slipstreamed disk, that would be easier than creating them itself and then handling the task of distribution.

 I'v slipstreamed SP1 before, got to go through all of the 'create this directory create that directory begin from run, blah blah blah..
   MS Should make some sort of software that does that all in one function..

I really want a slipstreamed install disc as well. With things like blaster and sasser out there it won't be safe to do a vanilla XP install and then go online to download the updates to SP2 level.
It'd be cool if you could take your retail copy of XP back to a store and they would replace it with an updated version. If you've got an official hologramed disc its pretty obvious that you've actually paid for it.

We've made the bet that making it hard for users to make themselves vulnerable to attack is the right thing to do...

Excellent. Wonderful. Thank you! Smart!!! 99.999999% of the users out there are far from power users for sure! This is your core market and the source of the problem!!!

- surferdude

none of you get the point...

yes - all idiots - run sp2

if your a developer - its a nightmare

yell at me all you want

jamie wrote:

none of you get the point...

yes - all idiots - run sp2

if your a developer - its a nightmare

yell at me all you want

As far as I can tell, we knew that the various security lockdowns in SP2 would cause pain to developers, and we've been pretty upfront about, releasing documents showing what the changes would be (the latest is a bunch of code and demos).  But where security is concerned there's really no way to keep BOTH developers AND customers happy, and right now it's pretty clear that customers have to come 1^st.

As a followup, we spent part of today tracking down why one of our demos had stopped working.  Yup, it was caused by an SP2 security lockdown.  So we do feel your pain.

But don't worry, it was easy to fix and the demo will be ready for a TechEd keynote

haha - cut to crowded conference hall ... and a box popping up every 5 minutes through the presentation "You need to reboot now!"  cancel...    5 min later ... "You need to reboot now!"  cancel ... 5 minutes later...  you get the picture

Oh great, now you're giving me nightmares!

Perhaps dll's should work like they do in ASP.NET - when you update a file, it is replaces the already existing one in the cache when it has finished doing it's task.

Also what would be good is when a program wishes to load a dll that needs to be replaced, it instead uses the new version that is to replace it. That way, when programs have finished with the file it is replaced.