Sorry.

That was fun.

I am generally tired of idiots painting a black and white picture of technology. Either you use Microsoft OR you use OSS, god forbid you ever mix and match whatever tool works best. I am done playing ideological games with technology - being "Open Source" is not a selling point unless the code base is simple enough for your average programmer to submit patches to.

oh ... so using java is so gay ? until you met Scala ? that's funny

That was brilliant. Almost persuaded me to switch back to Java.

P.S.: I love the sound of the Scandinavian languages.

Not very realistic though is it?

...where's his big bushy beard, bald forehead and ponytail?!

He does have the java programmers superior sense of smugness though!

(sorry!)

Funniest thing I've seen this week.

With Java in the hands of Oracle, not sure we'll be laughing for much longer.

That was funny and well made - I wonder who paid for it?

But...

• A: Aligning Java and Open Source is a push - just because they're both generally non-Microsoft things, they don't belong together. Open Sourcers hate Java as much as they do Microsoft stuff.
• B: Even though this is a marketing film, it does fairly represent the attitude of the Java camp which is an assumption of superiority. C# is surely a better language than Java by any realistic comparison. And I'd be surprised if Java's hotspot runtime is any faster than .NET4. And the deployment story with Java is a disaster.
• C: Java's biggest claim is cross-platform support, but Java is no more portable than C++ if you want to produce a good product. You still have to test everywhere and you still have to use platform-specific UI libraries if you want to have a good UI. They've also somehow missed the irony that .NET only exists because of Sun's insistence on licencees sticking to their cross-platform dogma. Oh, and from an Open Source point of view this is also ridiculous - Ruby is cross-platform, Python is cross-platform, PHP is cross-platform.

Hilarious, but it makes java sound like its new and exciting, the tip of technology..  where as the reality is that java is old, dying and shít

I'm personally really starting to like Java, especially the Java+Spring combination. C# is definitely a decent language though.

Bass said:

I'm personally really starting to like Java, especially the Java+Spring combination. C# is definitely a decent language though.

I don't do any "Enterprise" development, so I can't vouch for Java's Spring framework, i just kinda figured that most of the important things would have already been covered by System.EnterpriseServices, whatever's new in .NET4.0, and things like Microsoft's Enterprise library.

It seems the main point being driven in the video was Java's cross-platform support, which is fair enough: Microsoft has only given a token of support to Mono, but beyond support for the major desktop and server platforms (Linux, OS X, and Windows) the only limits to .NET's portability are embedded applications and handhelds (and Java isn't on the iPhone either).

...given that .NET is marketed and based on the desktop and server development concepts and not really meant for embedded development (beyond Windows Mobile) I don't think this is that big a limitation.

I'm worried Microsoft might fight-back and make another PDC video in a similar vein to the anti-Linux Matrix parody, it was alright, but inaccurate (Kernel recompilation and unstability aren't hallmarks of Linux as they portrayed, and it's hypocritical for them to speak of platform lock-in and "choice").

W3bbo said:

Bass said:

*snip*

I don't do any "Enterprise" development, so I can't vouch for Java's Spring framework, i just kinda figured that most of the important things would have already been covered by System.EnterpriseServices, whatever's new in .NET4.0, and things like Microsoft's Enterprise library.

 

It seems the main point being driven in the video was Java's cross-platform support, which is fair enough: Microsoft has only given a token of support to Mono, but beyond support for the major desktop and server platforms (Linux, OS X, and Windows) the only limits to .NET's portability are embedded applications and handhelds (and Java isn't on the iPhone either).

 

...given that .NET is marketed and based on the desktop and server development concepts and not really meant for embedded development (beyond Windows Mobile) I don't think this is that big a limitation.

 

I'm worried Microsoft might fight-back and make another PDC video in a similar vein to the anti-Linux Matrix parody, it was alright, but inaccurate (Kernel recompilation and unstability aren't hallmarks of Linux as they portrayed, and it's hypocritical for them to speak of platform lock-in and "choice").

Well there is a Spring.NET too, you know.

Hilarious ... actually came here to post this video .. but saw Bass already did it...

Having worked with .net and java on desktop, embedded systems, cross platform (mono )... i would say ... Java's claim of write once and run everywhere is not really true and that too has been made more complicated by J2EE...

Anyway not all applications need to be write once and run everywhere ... on the other hand its a great capability coupled with ORM like tech to make applications independent of db and OS ...  hence it would be great  if Microsoft  could invest part of their energy in making .net(or not ) cross platform ( though I understand for short term what their marketing guy will be saying )

By the way did you guys notice Mac in a MS/.Net household ?

Bass said:

I'm personally really starting to like Java, especially the Java+Spring combination. C# is definitely a decent language though.

I think C# had the opportunity to correct many of the mistakes that Gosling made in Java, but along the way MS has made the language much more complicated. There are always trade-offs.

These days though, the focus is less on Java the language and more on the JVM. Lots of folk use Scala or Groovy (scripting) on the JVM which gives them a lot of the stuff Java is missing (closures for example, though they're apparently coming in the next release).

Worrying so much about backward compatibility and cross-platformness was a mistake. It prevented the language from moving forward.

Yes, companies are dropping the slow, bloated J2EE and using Spring instead.

Thank God.

Ray7 said:

Bass said:

*snip*

I think C# had the opportunity to correct many of the mistakes that Gosling made in Java, but along the way MS has made the language much more complicated. There are always trade-offs.

 

These days though, the focus is less on Java the language and more on the JVM. Lots of folk use Scala or Groovy (scripting) on the JVM which gives them a lot of the stuff Java is missing (closures for example, though they're apparently coming in the next release).

 

Worrying so much about backward compatibility and cross-platformness was a mistake. It prevented the language from moving forward.

 

Yes, companies are dropping the slow, bloated J2EE and using Spring instead.

Thank God.

 

 

Were are my multiplatform .NET install targets Microsoft?

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

Why can't I just use all my libraries and leverage my existing code in Android applications for mobile phones with .NET?

With Java I just have to change the interface UI and that only takes me a few hours. With .NET I have to rewrite the entire application, and that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

http://www.cnet.com/8301-19736_1-20008661-251.html

Carriers activate 160,000 Android phones a day

With Java, all I have to do is extend my main class with JApplet to make it into a web application. No extra code is required. Only to sign the app with a CA cert that is in the Java root certificates, and users can just use the app in the browser. Why is it so much harder to port apps from the desktop to Silverlight?

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

I can simply run my existing Java code in Google App Engine for managed load balanced deployments with GWT, and the tools to write and run my code in Eclipse are completely free. The Tomcat stack is totally free to deploy on as many servers as I want with CentOS.

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

And Finally:

javaplayer said:

Ray7 said:

*snip*

 

Were are my multiplatform .NET install targets Microsoft?

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

 

Why can't I just use all my libraries and leverage my existing code in Android applications for mobile phones with .NET?

With Java I just have to change the interface UI and that only takes me a few hours. With .NET I have to rewrite the entire application, and that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

http://www.cnet.com/8301-19736_1-20008661-251.html

 

June 24, 2010 12:20 PM PDT

Carriers activate 160,000 Android phones a day

 

With Java, all I have to do is extend my main class with JApplet to make it into a web application. No extra code is required. Only to sign the app with a CA cert that is in the Java root certificates, and users can just use the app in the browser. Why is it so much harder to port apps from the desktop to Silverlight?

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

I can simply run my existing Java code in Google App Engine for managed load balanced deployments with GWT, and the tools to write and run my code in Eclipse are completely free. The Tomcat stack is totally free to deploy on as many servers as I want with CentOS.

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

And Finally:

 

 

 

Fight those tears, man!

Dan said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

Why can't I just use all my libraries and leverage my existing code in Android applications for mobile phones with .NET?

With Java I just have to change the interface UI and that only takes me a few hours. With .NET I have to rewrite the entire application, and that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

 

LOL, if you have a Java application you need to re-write your entire application for iPhone or Windows Phone too. For Andriod, you can use mono to reuse your .NET libraries in a mobile application. That sucks that you even have to change the interface UI for Android, so you have to rip & replace the whole UI?!

 

With Java, all I have to do is extend my main class with JApplet to make it into a web application. No extra code is required. Only to sign the app with a CA cert that is in the Java root certificates, and users can just use the app in the browser. Why is it so much harder to port apps from the desktop to Silverlight?

 

Show me a customer or top Web site that is using Java applets today. Applets are dead and are replaced by JavaFx. Let's ask the same question, why is it so hard to port an existing Struts application to JavaFx?

 

I can simply run my existing Java code in Google App Engine for managed load balanced deployments with GWT, and the tools to write and run my code in Eclipse are completely free. The Tomcat stack is totally free to deploy on as many servers as I want with CentOS.

 

I agree that Eclipse the best Java tool out there, and there are certainly several customers evaluating cloud deployments, which is why I love the fact that Windows Azure supports Java, including AppFabric support and we even have an Eclipse SDK! Because when you want the ability to infinitely scale, or if you want the option of using a real database in addition to Table Storage, Windows Azure is the best choice out there.

 

 

"how me a customer or top Web site that is using Java applets today."

http://www.tdameritrade.com

All the tools are written in Java, and displayed as JApplets.

http://www.godaddy.com

Many of the tools such as the FTP web client is written as Java JApplets.

https://hostingmanager.secureserver.net/ftpapplet/sftpapplet.jar

They license the FTP applet from JScape for their users.

http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Facebook_apps_written_in_Java

Many apps on FB are written with Java. The uploader is Java.

So there are three, but there are hundreds of thousands of websites that use JavaFX and JApplets on the web. Any website that has advanced tools that can not be displayed with AJAX due to complexity and or real time data display are usually written in Java as Applets rather than Flash which is the popular choice for games, and adverts.

"LOL, if you have a Java application you need to re-write your entire application for iPhone or Windows Phone too. For Andriod, you can use mono to reuse your .NET libraries in a mobile application."

Windows Mobile is not too popular these days. How are you going to write a mono app for Android as an APK? Mono Droid is still alpha. Do you think an enterprise would actually release a commerical app with their name on it to the Android platform with Monodroid?

"real database in addition to Table Storage"

You can use SQLite in addition to Datastore and Datanucleus. App Engine is just one way you can distribute Java Applications in the cloud. There are actually hundreds of SQL implementations as well with Oracle, PostGRES, and MySQL.

javaplayer said:

Dan said:

*snip*

"how me a customer or top Web site that is using Java applets today."

 

http://www.tdameritrade.com

All the tools are written in Java, and displayed as JApplets.

 

http://www.godaddy.com

Many of the tools such as the FTP web client is written as Java JApplets.

https://hostingmanager.secureserver.net/ftpapplet/sftpapplet.jar

They license the FTP applet from JScape for their users.

 

http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Facebook_apps_written_in_Java

Many apps on FB are written with Java. The uploader is Java.

 

So there are three, but there are hundreds of thousands of websites that use JavaFX and JApplets on the web. Any website that has advanced tools that can not be displayed with AJAX due to complexity and or real time data display are usually written in Java as Applets rather than Flash which is the popular choice for games, and adverts.

 

"LOL, if you have a Java application you need to re-write your entire application for iPhone or Windows Phone too. For Andriod, you can use mono to reuse your .NET libraries in a mobile application."

 

Windows Mobile is not too popular these days. How are you going to write a mono app for Android as an APK? Mono Droid is still alpha. Do you think an enterprise would actually release a commerical app with their name on it to the Android platform with Monodroid?

"real database in addition to Table Storage"

 

You can use SQLite in addition to Datastore and Datanucleus. App Engine is just one way you can distribute Java Applications in the cloud. There are actually hundreds of SQL implementations as well with Oracle, PostGRES, and MySQL.

 

Hey, my thread attracted a Java advocate.  Welcome to Channel 9!