Sorry.

I am generally tired of idiots painting a black and white picture of technology. Either you use Microsoft OR you use OSS, god forbid you ever mix and match whatever tool works best. I am done playing ideological games with technology - being "Open Source" is not a selling point unless the code base is simple enough for your average programmer to submit patches to.

P.S.: I love the sound of the Scandinavian languages.

...where's his big bushy beard, bald forehead and ponytail?!

He does have the java programmers superior sense of smugness though!

(sorry!)

With Java in the hands of Oracle, not sure we'll be laughing for much longer.

But...

• A: Aligning Java and Open Source is a push - just because they're both generally non-Microsoft things, they don't belong together. Open Sourcers hate Java as much as they do Microsoft stuff.
• B: Even though this is a marketing film, it does fairly represent the attitude of the Java camp which is an assumption of superiority. C# is surely a better language than Java by any realistic comparison. And I'd be surprised if Java's hotspot runtime is any faster than .NET4. And the deployment story with Java is a disaster.
• C: Java's biggest claim is cross-platform support, but Java is no more portable than C++ if you want to produce a good product. You still have to test everywhere and you still have to use platform-specific UI libraries if you want to have a good UI. They've also somehow missed the irony that .NET only exists because of Sun's insistence on licencees sticking to their cross-platform dogma. Oh, and from an Open Source point of view this is also ridiculous - Ruby is cross-platform, Python is cross-platform, PHP is cross-platform.

Bass said:

I'm personally really starting to like Java, especially the Java+Spring combination. C# is definitely a decent language though.

I don't do any "Enterprise" development, so I can't vouch for Java's Spring framework, i just kinda figured that most of the important things would have already been covered by System.EnterpriseServices, whatever's new in .NET4.0, and things like Microsoft's Enterprise library.

It seems the main point being driven in the video was Java's cross-platform support, which is fair enough: Microsoft has only given a token of support to Mono, but beyond support for the major desktop and server platforms (Linux, OS X, and Windows) the only limits to .NET's portability are embedded applications and handhelds (and Java isn't on the iPhone either).

...given that .NET is marketed and based on the desktop and server development concepts and not really meant for embedded development (beyond Windows Mobile) I don't think this is that big a limitation.

I'm worried Microsoft might fight-back and make another PDC video in a similar vein to the anti-Linux Matrix parody, it was alright, but inaccurate (Kernel recompilation and unstability aren't hallmarks of Linux as they portrayed, and it's hypocritical for them to speak of platform lock-in and "choice").

W3bbo said:

Bass said:

*snip*

I don't do any "Enterprise" development, so I can't vouch for Java's Spring framework, i just kinda figured that most of the important things would have already been covered by System.EnterpriseServices, whatever's new in .NET4.0, and things like Microsoft's Enterprise library.

 

It seems the main point being driven in the video was Java's cross-platform support, which is fair enough: Microsoft has only given a token of support to Mono, but beyond support for the major desktop and server platforms (Linux, OS X, and Windows) the only limits to .NET's portability are embedded applications and handhelds (and Java isn't on the iPhone either).

 

...given that .NET is marketed and based on the desktop and server development concepts and not really meant for embedded development (beyond Windows Mobile) I don't think this is that big a limitation.

 

I'm worried Microsoft might fight-back and make another PDC video in a similar vein to the anti-Linux Matrix parody, it was alright, but inaccurate (Kernel recompilation and unstability aren't hallmarks of Linux as they portrayed, and it's hypocritical for them to speak of platform lock-in and "choice").

Well there is a Spring.NET too, you know.

Having worked with .net and java on desktop, embedded systems, cross platform (mono )... i would say ... Java's claim of write once and run everywhere is not really true and that too has been made more complicated by J2EE...

Anyway not all applications need to be write once and run everywhere ... on the other hand its a great capability coupled with ORM like tech to make applications independent of db and OS ...  hence it would be great  if Microsoft  could invest part of their energy in making .net(or not ) cross platform ( though I understand for short term what their marketing guy will be saying )

By the way did you guys notice Mac in a MS/.Net household ?

Bass said:

I'm personally really starting to like Java, especially the Java+Spring combination. C# is definitely a decent language though.

I think C# had the opportunity to correct many of the mistakes that Gosling made in Java, but along the way MS has made the language much more complicated. There are always trade-offs.

These days though, the focus is less on Java the language and more on the JVM. Lots of folk use Scala or Groovy (scripting) on the JVM which gives them a lot of the stuff Java is missing (closures for example, though they're apparently coming in the next release).

Worrying so much about backward compatibility and cross-platformness was a mistake. It prevented the language from moving forward.

Yes, companies are dropping the slow, bloated J2EE and using Spring instead.

Thank God.

Ray7 said:

Bass said:

*snip*

I think C# had the opportunity to correct many of the mistakes that Gosling made in Java, but along the way MS has made the language much more complicated. There are always trade-offs.

 

These days though, the focus is less on Java the language and more on the JVM. Lots of folk use Scala or Groovy (scripting) on the JVM which gives them a lot of the stuff Java is missing (closures for example, though they're apparently coming in the next release).

 

Worrying so much about backward compatibility and cross-platformness was a mistake. It prevented the language from moving forward.

 

Yes, companies are dropping the slow, bloated J2EE and using Spring instead.

Thank God.

 

 

Were are my multiplatform .NET install targets Microsoft?

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

Why can't I just use all my libraries and leverage my existing code in Android applications for mobile phones with .NET?

With Java I just have to change the interface UI and that only takes me a few hours. With .NET I have to rewrite the entire application, and that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

http://www.cnet.com/8301-19736_1-20008661-251.html

Carriers activate 160,000 Android phones a day

With Java, all I have to do is extend my main class with JApplet to make it into a web application. No extra code is required. Only to sign the app with a CA cert that is in the Java root certificates, and users can just use the app in the browser. Why is it so much harder to port apps from the desktop to Silverlight?

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

I can simply run my existing Java code in Google App Engine for managed load balanced deployments with GWT, and the tools to write and run my code in Eclipse are completely free. The Tomcat stack is totally free to deploy on as many servers as I want with CentOS.

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

And Finally:

javaplayer said:

Ray7 said:

*snip*

 

Were are my multiplatform .NET install targets Microsoft?

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

 

Why can't I just use all my libraries and leverage my existing code in Android applications for mobile phones with .NET?

With Java I just have to change the interface UI and that only takes me a few hours. With .NET I have to rewrite the entire application, and that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

http://www.cnet.com/8301-19736_1-20008661-251.html

 

June 24, 2010 12:20 PM PDT

Carriers activate 160,000 Android phones a day

 

With Java, all I have to do is extend my main class with JApplet to make it into a web application. No extra code is required. Only to sign the app with a CA cert that is in the Java root certificates, and users can just use the app in the browser. Why is it so much harder to port apps from the desktop to Silverlight?

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

I can simply run my existing Java code in Google App Engine for managed load balanced deployments with GWT, and the tools to write and run my code in Eclipse are completely free. The Tomcat stack is totally free to deploy on as many servers as I want with CentOS.

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

And Finally:

 

 

 

Fight those tears, man!

javaplayer said:

Ray7 said:

*snip*

 

Were are my multiplatform .NET install targets Microsoft?

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

 

Why can't I just use all my libraries and leverage my existing code in Android applications for mobile phones with .NET?

With Java I just have to change the interface UI and that only takes me a few hours. With .NET I have to rewrite the entire application, and that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

http://www.cnet.com/8301-19736_1-20008661-251.html

 

June 24, 2010 12:20 PM PDT

Carriers activate 160,000 Android phones a day

 

With Java, all I have to do is extend my main class with JApplet to make it into a web application. No extra code is required. Only to sign the app with a CA cert that is in the Java root certificates, and users can just use the app in the browser. Why is it so much harder to port apps from the desktop to Silverlight?

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

I can simply run my existing Java code in Google App Engine for managed load balanced deployments with GWT, and the tools to write and run my code in Eclipse are completely free. The Tomcat stack is totally free to deploy on as many servers as I want with CentOS.

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

And Finally:

 

 

 

Why can't I just use all my libraries and leverage my existing code in Android applications for mobile phones with .NET?

With Java I just have to change the interface UI and that only takes me a few hours. With .NET I have to rewrite the entire application, and that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

LOL, if you have a Java application you need to re-write your entire application for iPhone or Windows Phone too. For Andriod, you can use mono to reuse your .NET libraries in a mobile application. That sucks that you even have to change the interface UI for Android, so you have to rip & replace the whole UI?!

With Java, all I have to do is extend my main class with JApplet to make it into a web application. No extra code is required. Only to sign the app with a CA cert that is in the Java root certificates, and users can just use the app in the browser. Why is it so much harder to port apps from the desktop to Silverlight?

Show me a customer or top Web site that is using Java applets today. Applets are dead and are replaced by JavaFx. Let's ask the same question, why is it so hard to port an existing Struts application to JavaFx?

I can simply run my existing Java code in Google App Engine for managed load balanced deployments with GWT, and the tools to write and run my code in Eclipse are completely free. The Tomcat stack is totally free to deploy on as many servers as I want with CentOS.

I agree that Eclipse the best Java tool out there, and there are certainly several customers evaluating cloud deployments, which is why I love the fact that Windows Azure supports Java, including AppFabric support and we even have an Eclipse SDK! Because when you want the ability to infinitely scale, or if you want the option of using a real database in addition to Table Storage, Windows Azure is the best choice out there.

Dan said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

Why can't I just use all my libraries and leverage my existing code in Android applications for mobile phones with .NET?

With Java I just have to change the interface UI and that only takes me a few hours. With .NET I have to rewrite the entire application, and that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

 

LOL, if you have a Java application you need to re-write your entire application for iPhone or Windows Phone too. For Andriod, you can use mono to reuse your .NET libraries in a mobile application. That sucks that you even have to change the interface UI for Android, so you have to rip & replace the whole UI?!

 

With Java, all I have to do is extend my main class with JApplet to make it into a web application. No extra code is required. Only to sign the app with a CA cert that is in the Java root certificates, and users can just use the app in the browser. Why is it so much harder to port apps from the desktop to Silverlight?

 

Show me a customer or top Web site that is using Java applets today. Applets are dead and are replaced by JavaFx. Let's ask the same question, why is it so hard to port an existing Struts application to JavaFx?

 

I can simply run my existing Java code in Google App Engine for managed load balanced deployments with GWT, and the tools to write and run my code in Eclipse are completely free. The Tomcat stack is totally free to deploy on as many servers as I want with CentOS.

 

I agree that Eclipse the best Java tool out there, and there are certainly several customers evaluating cloud deployments, which is why I love the fact that Windows Azure supports Java, including AppFabric support and we even have an Eclipse SDK! Because when you want the ability to infinitely scale, or if you want the option of using a real database in addition to Table Storage, Windows Azure is the best choice out there.

 

 

"how me a customer or top Web site that is using Java applets today."

http://www.tdameritrade.com

All the tools are written in Java, and displayed as JApplets.

http://www.godaddy.com

Many of the tools such as the FTP web client is written as Java JApplets.

https://hostingmanager.secureserver.net/ftpapplet/sftpapplet.jar

They license the FTP applet from JScape for their users.

http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Facebook_apps_written_in_Java

Many apps on FB are written with Java. The uploader is Java.

So there are three, but there are hundreds of thousands of websites that use JavaFX and JApplets on the web. Any website that has advanced tools that can not be displayed with AJAX due to complexity and or real time data display are usually written in Java as Applets rather than Flash which is the popular choice for games, and adverts.

"LOL, if you have a Java application you need to re-write your entire application for iPhone or Windows Phone too. For Andriod, you can use mono to reuse your .NET libraries in a mobile application."

Windows Mobile is not too popular these days. How are you going to write a mono app for Android as an APK? Mono Droid is still alpha. Do you think an enterprise would actually release a commerical app with their name on it to the Android platform with Monodroid?

"real database in addition to Table Storage"

You can use SQLite in addition to Datastore and Datanucleus. App Engine is just one way you can distribute Java Applications in the cloud. There are actually hundreds of SQL implementations as well with Oracle, PostGRES, and MySQL.

javaplayer said:

Dan said:

*snip*

"how me a customer or top Web site that is using Java applets today."

 

http://www.tdameritrade.com

All the tools are written in Java, and displayed as JApplets.

 

http://www.godaddy.com

Many of the tools such as the FTP web client is written as Java JApplets.

https://hostingmanager.secureserver.net/ftpapplet/sftpapplet.jar

They license the FTP applet from JScape for their users.

 

http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Facebook_apps_written_in_Java

Many apps on FB are written with Java. The uploader is Java.

 

So there are three, but there are hundreds of thousands of websites that use JavaFX and JApplets on the web. Any website that has advanced tools that can not be displayed with AJAX due to complexity and or real time data display are usually written in Java as Applets rather than Flash which is the popular choice for games, and adverts.

 

"LOL, if you have a Java application you need to re-write your entire application for iPhone or Windows Phone too. For Andriod, you can use mono to reuse your .NET libraries in a mobile application."

 

Windows Mobile is not too popular these days. How are you going to write a mono app for Android as an APK? Mono Droid is still alpha. Do you think an enterprise would actually release a commerical app with their name on it to the Android platform with Monodroid?

"real database in addition to Table Storage"

 

You can use SQLite in addition to Datastore and Datanucleus. App Engine is just one way you can distribute Java Applications in the cloud. There are actually hundreds of SQL implementations as well with Oracle, PostGRES, and MySQL.

 

Hey, my thread attracted a Java advocate.  Welcome to Channel 9!

javaplayer said:

Dan said:

*snip*

"how me a customer or top Web site that is using Java applets today."

 

http://www.tdameritrade.com

All the tools are written in Java, and displayed as JApplets.

 

http://www.godaddy.com

Many of the tools such as the FTP web client is written as Java JApplets.

https://hostingmanager.secureserver.net/ftpapplet/sftpapplet.jar

They license the FTP applet from JScape for their users.

 

http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Facebook_apps_written_in_Java

Many apps on FB are written with Java. The uploader is Java.

 

So there are three, but there are hundreds of thousands of websites that use JavaFX and JApplets on the web. Any website that has advanced tools that can not be displayed with AJAX due to complexity and or real time data display are usually written in Java as Applets rather than Flash which is the popular choice for games, and adverts.

 

"LOL, if you have a Java application you need to re-write your entire application for iPhone or Windows Phone too. For Andriod, you can use mono to reuse your .NET libraries in a mobile application."

 

Windows Mobile is not too popular these days. How are you going to write a mono app for Android as an APK? Mono Droid is still alpha. Do you think an enterprise would actually release a commerical app with their name on it to the Android platform with Monodroid?

"real database in addition to Table Storage"

 

You can use SQLite in addition to Datastore and Datanucleus. App Engine is just one way you can distribute Java Applications in the cloud. There are actually hundreds of SQL implementations as well with Oracle, PostGRES, and MySQL.

 

look mate, you might be better off expending your energy to convince the Java dinosaurs to keep the faith - trying to convince .NET developers to switch to Java == massive waste of time. Why don't you try and convince some Python or Ruby developers to switch to Java? That ought to be fun to watch.

Java is the Cobol of the 21st century. Yes, enterprises will have Java code to maintain for decades, but it's long ceased to be a source of interest for anyone.

As for Android, I'll note it doesn't actually run Java on the device. Google didn't want to pay Sun phat money to licence the only bit of Java that they still charge for so they designed their own bytecode and virtual machine to run it.

By the way, Monodroid is in BETA and already benchmarks faster than the new JIT runtime in Android 2.2. I can't say that's a bad thing for Java because as I already said, Android doesn't actually run Java on the device, but it does show that it's hard to get motivated when you're giving something away for free.

javaplayer said:

Ray7 said:

*snip*

 

Were are my multiplatform .NET install targets Microsoft?

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

 

Why can't I just use all my libraries and leverage my existing code in Android applications for mobile phones with .NET?

With Java I just have to change the interface UI and that only takes me a few hours. With .NET I have to rewrite the entire application, and that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

http://www.cnet.com/8301-19736_1-20008661-251.html

 

June 24, 2010 12:20 PM PDT

Carriers activate 160,000 Android phones a day

 

With Java, all I have to do is extend my main class with JApplet to make it into a web application. No extra code is required. Only to sign the app with a CA cert that is in the Java root certificates, and users can just use the app in the browser. Why is it so much harder to port apps from the desktop to Silverlight?

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

I can simply run my existing Java code in Google App Engine for managed load balanced deployments with GWT, and the tools to write and run my code in Eclipse are completely free. The Tomcat stack is totally free to deploy on as many servers as I want with CentOS.

 

Why would I dimish my Enterprise deployment base to use Microsoft's inferior product?

 

And Finally:

 

 

 

Microsoft .NET only supports Windows because other then selling more copies of Visual Studio all their mad monies comes from Windows license sales. You see what I mean? I don't think we will see a cross-platform .NET for a very long time. Although I praise Miguel and company for their efforts with Mono, it is chronically behind. 

Bass said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

Hey, my thread attracted a Java advocate.  Welcome to Channel 9!

It's unlikely to be a new user if you know what I mean..

rhm said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

look mate, you might be better off expending your energy to convince the Java dinosaurs to keep the faith - trying to convince .NET developers to switch to Java == massive waste of time. Why don't you try and convince some Python or Ruby developers to switch to Java? That ought to be fun to watch.

 

Java is the Cobol of the 21st century. Yes, enterprises will have Java code to maintain for decades, but it's long ceased to be a source of interest for anyone.

 

As for Android, I'll note it doesn't actually run Java on the device. Google didn't want to pay Sun phat money to licence the only bit of Java that they still charge for so they designed their own bytecode and virtual machine to run it.

 

By the way, Monodroid is in BETA and already benchmarks faster than the new JIT runtime in Android 2.2. I can't say that's a bad thing for Java because as I already said, Android doesn't actually run Java on the device, but it does show that it's hard to get motivated when you're giving something away for free.

 

I actually am programming professionally in Java. My previous job has been with .NET. Java is very much like C#, other then the lack of Properties and Extension methods. I think it might be inspired from C# or the other way around.

I can't really agree with anything you said really. Java seems to be huge. It has this really big ecosystem too, it seems that while with .NET most everything emanates from 'the source' in Redmond. Java has a huge diverse ecosystem of stuff from Oracle, VMWare, IBM, Google, and Apache. Among many others. Very cool.

rhm said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

look mate, you might be better off expending your energy to convince the Java dinosaurs to keep the faith - trying to convince .NET developers to switch to Java == massive waste of time. Why don't you try and convince some Python or Ruby developers to switch to Java? That ought to be fun to watch.

 

Java is the Cobol of the 21st century. Yes, enterprises will have Java code to maintain for decades, but it's long ceased to be a source of interest for anyone.

 

As for Android, I'll note it doesn't actually run Java on the device. Google didn't want to pay Sun phat money to licence the only bit of Java that they still charge for so they designed their own bytecode and virtual machine to run it.

 

By the way, Monodroid is in BETA and already benchmarks faster than the new JIT runtime in Android 2.2. I can't say that's a bad thing for Java because as I already said, Android doesn't actually run Java on the device, but it does show that it's hard to get motivated when you're giving something away for free.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_%28software%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Harmony

Install the Andoid SDK in your Eclipse, then copy/paste or link your non-UI Java code and it will work out of box.

What you are trying to do is to technically mislead and that's no fun for anybody.

"Java is the Cobol of the 21st century"

http://openjdk.java.net/

Bass said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

Hey, my thread attracted a Java advocate.  Welcome to Channel 9!

Goodbye. I've met my fair share of Microsoft developers in real life, and I think people should know better than to try to speak to them and expect them to be fair minded.

rhm said:

Bass said:

*snip*

It's unlikely to be a new user if you know what I mean..

 

I disagree. Beer28 was more of a PHP guy than Java advocate. His posting style isn't the same either.

Most likely it's someone who found this thread via google because Ch9 has such a high pagerank.

javaplayer said:

rhm said:

*snip*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_%28software%29

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Harmony

Install the Andoid SDK in your Eclipse, then copy/paste or link your non-UI Java code and it will work out of box.

What you are trying to do is to technically mislead and that's no fun for anybody.

 

"Java is the Cobol of the 21st century"

 

http://openjdk.java.net/

 

So you do want to claim that Android runs Java? Care to explain why it runs it so slowly? Care to explain why Sun/Oracle engineers aren't working to make it super-fast?

The reason for the first is: Android doesn't run Java, it runs some cobbled-together bytecode that a company Google acquired came up with to avoid paying Java licence fees. Oh, and also to avoid getting into the political bullsh!t that Microsoft did with Sun whereby Sun want all licencees to use the same half-arsed UI toolkits on all platforms to maintain their utopian cross-platform dream. Which is the answer to the second question: Sun/Oracle engineers aren't working to make Java on Android faster because Android doesn't run Java.

Did I mention already that .NET only exists because of Sun's cross-platform politicing? Oh yes, I think I did.

Like I said, you're better off putting your advocacy time into pursauding current Java developers away from checking out alternatives. You aren't going to convince C# developers to use Java unless their job depends on it. Every time I'm forced to look at Java source it makes my sick with it's verbosity (and also the crappy layout style they insist in using, though I guess Java developers could chose to lay out their code so it isn't just one ugly mess).

rhm said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

So you do want to claim that Android runs Java? Care to explain why it runs it so slowly? Care to explain why Sun/Oracle engineers aren't working to make it super-fast?

 

The reason for the first is: Android doesn't run Java, it runs some cobbled-together bytecode that a company Google acquired came up with to avoid paying Java licence fees. Oh, and also to avoid getting into the political bullsh!t that Microsoft did with Sun whereby Sun want all licencees to use the same half-arsed UI toolkits on all platforms to maintain their utopian cross-platform dream. Which is the answer to the second question: Sun/Oracle engineers aren't working to make Java on Android faster because Android doesn't run Java.

 

Did I mention already that .NET only exists because of Sun's cross-platform politicing? Oh yes, I think I did.

 

Like I said, you're better off putting your advocacy time into pursauding current Java developers away from checking out alternatives. You aren't going to convince C# developers to use Java unless their job depends on it. Every time I'm forced to look at Java source it makes my sick with it's verbosity (and also the crappy layout style they insist in using, though I guess Java developers could chose to lay out their code so it isn't just one ugly mess).

 

"Did I mention already that .NET only exists because of Sun's cross-platform politicing? Oh yes, I think I did."

We all know what happened with the MSJVM, J++, and how Anders H. made the quantum "jump" from WFC to the "brand new" C# language. He's such a genie-ous.

"The reason for the first is: Android doesn't run Java"

Java is the name of both a virtual machine and a programming language. Android does in fact run Java code, which has been compiled for it.

"Like I said, you're better off putting your advocacy"

Unlike the Java-Zone movie, I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

You don't need to be so defensive in my opinion. You remind me of Microsoft devs at a Google convention.

javaplayer said:

rhm said:

*snip*

"Did I mention already that .NET only exists because of Sun's cross-platform politicing? Oh yes, I think I did."

 

We all know what happened with the MSJVM, J++, and how Anders H. made the quantum "jump" from WFC to the "brand new" C# language. He's such a genie-ous.

 

"The reason for the first is: Android doesn't run Java"

 

Java is the name of both a virtual machine and a programming language. Android does in fact run Java code, which has been compiled for it.

 

"Like I said, you're better off putting your advocacy"

 

Unlike the Java-Zone movie, I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

You don't need to be so defensive in my opinion. You remind me of Microsoft devs at a Google convention.

Welcome back!

Bas said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

Welcome back!

Alas, W3bbo is correct. I am new here, but not new to Java or it's rich history.

I found this thread via Google, and I will be going now.

javaplayer said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Goodbye. I've met my fair share of Microsoft developers in real life, and I think people should know better than to try to speak to them and expect them to be fair minded.

No, don't leave! We have cookies!

That was almost surreal.

Ray7 said:

Wow.

 

That was almost surreal.

 

This calls for a soundtrack.

ManipUni said:

That was fun.

 

I am generally tired of idiots painting a black and white picture of technology. Either you use Microsoft OR you use OSS, god forbid you ever mix and match whatever tool works best. I am done playing ideological games with technology - being "Open Source" is not a selling point unless the code base is simple enough for your average programmer to submit patches to.

Why does it appear that your world set is limited to the union of Microsoft and Open Source Software? There are alternatives to both, such as VMWare, which falls under neither category.