We are starting our FY11 planning today, so we want to include your wish lists in our goals and deliverables for the upcoming year.

What do you wantt to learn, to know, to see? Who do you want to meet? What do you want from Channel 9 this year?

C

- More bandwidth

- More Hanselman (get him fired from his current position and then hire him into the C9 team but don't tell him)

I want to see more "old school" Channel 9 video's. Talking with the person who wrote code or designed the architecture of a new product. And know why they did certain things in a certain way (thinking back to Live Mesh video's that went into dept about why they uses XML/json to communicate , how P2P worked,..). The new products I think about are: new Windows Live (essentials and web) , Kinect , new Xbox console hardware , revolution 9 progress , silverlight 4/5 team ...

Video's not demoing the functionality but explaining what is going on on the backend.

Personal thing: It would be cool to see and end-to-end video about windows Azure. What does that datacenter look like? What happens when you add a new container? How is Azure maintained and how does the setup look for somebody monitering Azure datacenter? (not how developpers can moniter there app running in Azure)

- site architectural diagrams

- C9 Guy doll version 3 (or 2) : push to talk

- dovella interview

WP7 stuff is a must. The specific programming topics are cool, but there are a lot of things that we'd like to know about. How will the OTA updates work? How often will the OS and API's be updated? How often will the hardware be updated?

I think we'd all like to meet the new members of the C9 team.

Bas said:

Loads and load of two-way communication (in other words, lots of Q&A's) with the Windows Home Server team. Also seeing the mythical and rumored Windows Media Player team - if there is such a beast - on camera would be mindblowing.

++;

I like the way Tina has been posting threads asking for questions.

Do that for more videos.

fix the code, get Rev9 going or buy a system that works from a vendor or hire more devs whatever it takes.

make it work right. make it stable.

after that dump the more polished marketing stuff and get back to the roots of a C9 video, shaky hand held camera and folks who do not know what the talk will be.... surprise them! make it real!

and finally my personal "wish we could do this but i am sure we can't"  put folks on the spot!

like hey what the &^^# happend to this "INSERT NAME OF PRODUCT HERE"

like my question about Virtual PC and 64 bit.

or why Office x64 and WIndows Phones fail to work together - well outlook sync anyway.

or what about Steady State and the long list of folks begging for support in Windows 7 for that tool.

There are a bunch of things like that that i wish I could have a one on one chat with the PM's about why they failed to handle them...

Not that i want to make fun of them but rather I would sure like to find out why and what will it take to make it happen.

then here is a very targeted request:

Talk to the "Point of Service" folks who publish the MS POS for .Net

right now it's under the Windows Embeded but that really is just WRONG!

it should be for any version of windows and needs to be updated to install with .Net 4.0

I am using it with 4.0 but the customers have to install 2.0 and 4.0 versions of .Net to use it.

it has an installer that requires the 2.0 .net for no good reason that i can find.

if you do not know what POS is it's the software for doing stuff for point of sale systems, like printing the sales slip on the 40 column printers you see everyday at stores and fast food places.

More Erik! More Brian! Get some more brains out of MSR and put them on.

Go to England and follow Simon Peyton-Jones around for a week. Get him and Bill in a room and see what happens - how cool would that be???

Keep up the good work and don't change the format. Especially keep PR/Marketing hacks out. I love going deep, don't change a thing!

A contest woud be cool.

More Hanselman.

Less marketing videos. Less Sarah Ford having interviews with people at a desk with a scripted conversation in which you're trying to convince us of how awesome the latest Microsoft technology is. More videos of just walking in with a video camera and asking what people are doing. Sarah can do this too.

Bas said:

Adding my vote to suggestions by others: making C9 work - while we're still young (some of us don't have much more time to go, dammit!) - HAS to be top priority.

 

A contest woud be cool.

 

More Hanselman.

 

Less marketing videos. Less Sarah Ford having interviews with people at a desk with a scripted conversation in which you're trying to convince us of how awesome the latest Microsoft technology is. More videos of just walking in with a video camera and asking what people are doing. Sarah can do this too.

Interviews in which you don't notify the softie(s) beforehand.

"Softies at the coffeemachine".

Winforms being deprecated for WPF is an example.  It came out of nowhere.  At least it seemed like it.  I suspect Crystal Reports is dead internally as well given SSRS but Crystal has such a long history that it isn't something to bet on.

More seriously though, although the studio productions are great, it'd be nice to have more of the old style office-invasion interviews with devs.

davewill said:

I want to know where Microsoft technology is heading a year plus from now.  It is very hard trying to get up to speed on new technologies when we haven't been preparing in little bits for it leading up to release.

 

Winforms being deprecated for WPF is an example.  It came out of nowhere.  At least it seemed like it.  I suspect Crystal Reports is dead internally as well given SSRS but Crystal has such a long history that it isn't something to bet on.

WPF has been in development for nearly 10 years, so it has not come from nowhere.

rhm said:

University of Channel 9

 

More seriously though, although the studio productions are great, it'd be nice to have more of the old style office-invasion interviews with devs.

++

Studio productions are great sometimes, but indeed GO to there office. Don't post video's recorded at the C9 table that are only talking about stuff you can also read on the announcement blog post of the product...


Some examples of video's that have a to high 'marketing' feel to them. Or just feel like an 'announcement video' and don't really tell you anything new:
I'd much prefer 'going deep' style interviews about this technology.

So indeed more video's recorded in offices (old school). The first 9 pages on channel 9 don't have any video on it recorded in an office talking to the man who wrote the code...

Rico Mariani for the move to WPF in Dev 10, it is a phenomenal release with all the features.

I would love to see Dave Cutler.  Why? read the statement from Microsoft; Cutler is generally considered one of the top programmers worldwide

Please continue to find the larnier's and people of that sort, the unscripted, I did not reherse interviews are always great, pure edification.

Beth Massi needs a better camera, as her excellent shows could be better presented in the word of HD screens.

Looking at the internet recently, sites like guardian.co.uk or arstechnica.com are all defaulting to having mobile versions of their site. People are accessing the web from all sorts of nooks and crannies now. It would be suicide not to have a version of the site targeted at mobile devices, not just Windows Phone 7.

Dr Meijers series on functional programming theory was excellent, but the world of computer science is a wide one, another series like that would be welcome.

vesuvius said:

Soma blamed you for not seeing him often enough, and only at product launch, so it would be good to see him.

 

Rico Mariani for the move to WPF in Dev 10, it is a phenomenal release with all the features.

 

I would love to see Dave Cutler.  Why? read the statement from Microsoft; Cutler is generally considered one of the top programmers worldwide

 

Please continue to find the larnier's and people of that sort, the unscripted, I did not reherse interviews are always great, pure edification.

 

Beth Massi needs a better camera, as her excellent shows could be better presented in the word of HD screens.

 

Looking at the internet recently, sites like guardian.co.uk or arstechnica.com are all defaulting to having mobile versions of their site. People are accessing the web from all sorts of nooks and crannies now. It would be suicide not to have a version of the site targeted at mobile devices, not just Windows Phone 7.

 

Dr Meijers series on functional programming theory was excellent, but the world of computer science is a wide one, another series like that would be welcome.

Dave Cutler doesn't do any interviews.

ZippyV said:

vesuvius said:

*snip*

Dave Cutler doesn't do any interviews.

I know he does not, but he is generally considered by a big part of the world to be the creme de la creme.

I am not asking for 30 minutes, 5 minutes would do. He is too important for us to never get to see. I think Tina or someone did a Charles Simonyi interview (on his terms) that a lot of people missed. He is part of the intrinsic fabric of the company, that leaves us all burning with curiosity.

vesuvius said:

Soma blamed you for not seeing him often enough, and only at product launch, so it would be good to see him.

 

Rico Mariani for the move to WPF in Dev 10, it is a phenomenal release with all the features.

 

I would love to see Dave Cutler.  Why? read the statement from Microsoft; Cutler is generally considered one of the top programmers worldwide

 

Please continue to find the larnier's and people of that sort, the unscripted, I did not reherse interviews are always great, pure edification.

 

Beth Massi needs a better camera, as her excellent shows could be better presented in the word of HD screens.

 

Looking at the internet recently, sites like guardian.co.uk or arstechnica.com are all defaulting to having mobile versions of their site. People are accessing the web from all sorts of nooks and crannies now. It would be suicide not to have a version of the site targeted at mobile devices, not just Windows Phone 7.

 

Dr Meijers series on functional programming theory was excellent, but the world of computer science is a wide one, another series like that would be welcome.

More Soma would be good but his interviews should be a little more strategic and deep.

Don't ask people who don't want to be interviewed. Their work is more important than their word, after all.

I guess we'll have a lecture series with Meijer on Rx. It would make sense to set aside some time for RxJS as well as RxC++ in that series. Integrating Rx with the "Javascript ecosystem" (e.g. jQuery). Also, something about "Real World Rx" - dog fooding Rx inside Microsoft. I personally love dog fodding stories, even more than user stories in general.

davewill said:

I want to know where Microsoft technology is heading a year plus from now.  It is very hard trying to get up to speed on new technologies when we haven't been preparing in little bits for it leading up to release.

 

Winforms being deprecated for WPF is an example.  It came out of nowhere.  At least it seemed like it.  I suspect Crystal Reports is dead internally as well given SSRS but Crystal has such a long history that it isn't something to bet on.

Dave: IMHO CR has  been dead for a*LONG* time...

they have been sold how many times in the last 10 years?

(sold from one company to another)

I stopped recomending and using them when they flat out told me that a layout bug that was very clearly thier bug would only be looked at if the company i was with would buy a major site lic.

when hit with "yeah it's our bug and we might possibly think about fixing it if you hand us a check for like $50K" killed the deal after that i have never used them. this was about 2001 to date it.

PS: University 9. I love this.

CKurt said:

rhm said:

*snip*

++

Studio productions are great sometimes, but indeed GO to there office. Don't post video's recorded at the C9 table that are only talking about stuff you can also read on the announcement blog post of the product...


Some examples of video's that have a to high 'marketing' feel to them. Or just feel like an 'announcement video' and don't really tell you anything new:
I'd much prefer 'going deep' style interviews about this technology.

So indeed more video's recorded in offices (old school). The first 9 pages on channel 9 don't have any video on it recorded in an office talking to the man who wrote the code...

One of the reasons we use the studio instead of offices is that it, in many ways, it makes the lives of content contributors easier. For example, we don't have to worry about lighting, audio, screen capture not working, etc, we just show up at the studio, and Michael, our rock star camera man/editor, does all the hard work of capturing and editing the content, which frees our time to do more types of content.

In that sense, we (people recording content) just focus on the interview in the studio, instead of all of the other parts, including things we aren't as good at Michael at doing (removing background audio, fixing funky color problems, etc).  Plus the screen capture card in the studio is awesome and, if you're doing a demo, it beats pointing a camera at a screen pretty handily.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do office interviews, I'm just calling out why there's a preference to using the studio instead.

Dan said:

CKurt said:

*snip*

One of the reasons we use the studio instead of offices is that it, in many ways, it makes the lives of content contributors easier. For example, we don't have to worry about lighting, audio, screen capture not working, etc, we just show up at the studio, and Michael, our rock star camera man/editor, does all the hard work of capturing and editing the content, which frees our time to do more types of content.

 

In that sense, we (people recording content) just focus on the interview in the studio, instead of all of the other parts, including things we aren't as good at Michael at doing (removing background audio, fixing funky color problems, etc).  Plus the screen capture card in the studio is awesome and, if you're doing a demo, it beats pointing a camera at a screen pretty handily.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't do office interviews, I'm just calling out why there's a preference to using the studio instead.

 

 

 

 

I know I definitely see a difference in the comfort level of the interviewees when they are in the studio. There is a completely different atmosphere when you are in somebody's office. They aren't intimidated by the lights and cameras when they can be in their own environment. If they want to scribble on the whiteboard, then they can.

I know it saves you guys a lot of work, but I really don't care about screen captures or fancy stuff. Intimate casual conversations are what made C9 great, and I don't think that you can accurately replicate that inside the harsh artificial environment of the studio.

kettch said:

Dan said:

*snip*

I know I definitely see a difference in the comfort level of the interviewees when they are in the studio. There is a completely different atmosphere when you are in somebody's office. They aren't intimidated by the lights and cameras when they can be in their own environment. If they want to scribble on the whiteboard, then they can.

 

I know it saves you guys a lot of work, but I really don't care about screen captures or fancy stuff. Intimate casual conversations are what made C9 great, and I don't think that you can accurately replicate that inside the harsh artificial environment of the studio.

We will continue to do both. There is not, nor has there ever been, an EitherOr monad, just a Both 

Sometimes, the studio is the best place to shoot demo-heavy pieces, lectures and conversational pieces. Sometimes, the office is the best place (like today's impromptu Archivist interview). Sometimes, Michael comes with us to offices to shoot high quality OldSchool (like the IE team interviews, Larry's NUI pieces, etc). Since you want more of this, and we asked you what you want, we will deliver.

Plurality is a good thing!

Keep on posting,

C

Richard.Hein said:

Lectures on lambda calculus.  I can't find any.  Category theory as well, as it relates to programming.

This is in the works A new series of Lectures on category theory, "Category 9", with Erik Meijer and peers. How does that sound? Lamda Calculus as well.

Stay tuned.

C

I would also like more interactiveness in the site, contests are one way of bring that into fruition. And, by contest, I don't mean if you can name that code-name you get a book. Although its hard to complain about getting swag, I'd prefer to solve problems like the last April fools post.

-Josh

Charles said:

Richard.Hein said:

*snip*

This is in the works A new series of Lectures on category theory, "Category 9", with Erik Meijer and peers. How does that sound? Lamda Calculus as well.

 

Stay tuned.

C

What was the show where Erik was talking about SKI combinators?

JoshRoss said:

Charles said:

*snip*

What was the show where Erik was talking about SKI combinators?

It wasn't a show. We were going to use a giant SKI combinator pattern in our April Fools technomadness... Is that what you're asking? (and how would you know this? )

Or, do you want Erik to do a lecture on the subject?

C

kettch said:

Dan said:

*snip*

I know I definitely see a difference in the comfort level of the interviewees when they are in the studio. There is a completely different atmosphere when you are in somebody's office. They aren't intimidated by the lights and cameras when they can be in their own environment. If they want to scribble on the whiteboard, then they can.

 

I know it saves you guys a lot of work, but I really don't care about screen captures or fancy stuff. Intimate casual conversations are what made C9 great, and I don't think that you can accurately replicate that inside the harsh artificial environment of the studio.

Michael loves to get out of the studio too, so we'll definitely be hitting more offices this year.

Charles said:

JoshRoss said:

*snip*

It wasn't a show. We were going to use a giant SKI combinator pattern in our April Fools technomadness... Is that what you're asking? (and how would you know this? )

 

Or, do you want Erik to do a lecture on the subject?

C

I cannot recall hearing about the big SKI combinator, now Church numerals is another story. This is another reason why we need show transcriptions.  The only reference that I could find was in the comments for Robert's interview with Erik. Looking at the other comments there, I see Bart.  What happened to his excellent blog?

-Josh

JoshRoss said:

Charles said:

*snip*

I cannot recall hearing about the big SKI combinator, now Church numerals is another story. This is another reason why we need show transcriptions.  The only reference that I could find was in the comments for Robert's interview with Erik. Looking at the other comments there, I see Bart.  What happened to his excellent blog?

 

-Josh

Bart still maintains his blog, but it appears to be broken (code error...). I've sent him an email...

C

I just wanted to make sure. Thanks for listening. We'll keep posting, if you guys keep listening.

Ian2 said:

Hows about a really cool Channel 9 Windows phone 7 app - open sourced as a training aid perhaps?

Shhh, don't tell Fernandez but I've been secretly poking around on how to do that   Shows off how to consume rss, use Isolated storage, do media playback ...

Only issue is there is just one of me.  So if you guys want to whip up some mocks on how to do this or make it into a codeplex project, I'm all game. 

We could even do a Coding4Fun project on it.

Clint said:

Ian2 said:

*snip*

Shhh, don't tell Fernandez but I've been secretly poking around on how to do that   Shows off how to consume rss, use Isolated storage, do media playback ...

 

Only issue is there is just one of me.  So if you guys want to whip up some mocks on how to do this or make it into a codeplex project, I'm all game. 

 

We could even do a Coding4Fun project on it.

Yes.

Bas said:

Speaking of CodePlex projects, I'd still like to see this happen: http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/NicFill/Ch9Live-at-Silverlight-4-Launch-Ask-The-Gu/#Page=1

I'd like to know:

Why do birds suddenly appear 
Every time you are near?

Also, what has been done so far in the C9 revolution -- you don't have to commit to any release dates, but surely some code has already been written?  What has been coded and can definitely be flagged as included in the next release?

Herbie

Bas said:

Adding my vote to suggestions by others: making C9 work - while we're still young (some of us don't have much more time to go, dammit!) - HAS to be top priority.

 

A contest woud be cool.

 

More Hanselman.

 

Less marketing videos. Less Sarah Ford having interviews with people at a desk with a scripted conversation in which you're trying to convince us of how awesome the latest Microsoft technology is. More videos of just walking in with a video camera and asking what people are doing. Sarah can do this too.

On the contest front, I'm normally the guy to say that this is a bad idea, given how many contests that Microsoft runs (avg 1/week). I won't repeat the rant on my blog on this  http://blogs.msdn.com/b/danielfe/archive/2008/03/17/microsoft-the-contest-machine.aspx, but you'd be surprised by how little participation some of these contests get. Further, for a community like C9, I think collaboration instead of competition would be a better option.

On the collaboration front, one of the things Clint and I were discussing for Coding4Fun was to have sponsored open source projects. So a dev team would submit an idea for a useful app or library, and if they get approved, we fund them to develop their idea. That way, you get folks collaborating on an open source project, the output of the project is open source and designed for reuse and even devs not participating can benefit from using your library. Google does something similar with their Summer of Code for example. Thoughts on that versus a contest?

Dan said:

Bas said:

*snip*

On the contest front, I'm normally the guy to say that this is a bad idea, given how many contests that Microsoft runs (avg 1/week). I won't repeat the rant on my blog on this  http://blogs.msdn.com/b/danielfe/archive/2008/03/17/microsoft-the-contest-machine.aspx, but you'd be surprised by how little participation some of these contests get. Further, for a community like C9, I think collaboration instead of competition would be a better option.

 

On the collaboration front, one of the things Clint and I were discussing for Coding4Fun was to have sponsored open source projects. So a dev team would submit an idea for a useful app or library, and if they get approved, we fund them to develop their idea. That way, you get folks collaborating on an open source project, the output of the project is open source and designed for reuse and even devs not participating can benefit from using your library. Google does something similar with their Summer of Code for example. Thoughts on that versus a contest?

 

 

When I said contest, I was actually referring to some sort of C9 sponsored code event. Code collaboration sounds like a great idea.

Maybe have it problem driven, like find a particular realworld issue someone on some site raised ("I wish I could keep track of my daily calorie intake by scanning in the wrappers from foods I eat" or "I wonder if there's a correlation between W3bbo's hair length and the amount of humor in his posts.").

The projects would have to be at that level interesting.

Or, we could even collaborate on C9 features.

Dan said:

Bas said:

*snip*

On the contest front, I'm normally the guy to say that this is a bad idea, given how many contests that Microsoft runs (avg 1/week). I won't repeat the rant on my blog on this  http://blogs.msdn.com/b/danielfe/archive/2008/03/17/microsoft-the-contest-machine.aspx, but you'd be surprised by how little participation some of these contests get. Further, for a community like C9, I think collaboration instead of competition would be a better option.

 

On the collaboration front, one of the things Clint and I were discussing for Coding4Fun was to have sponsored open source projects. So a dev team would submit an idea for a useful app or library, and if they get approved, we fund them to develop their idea. That way, you get folks collaborating on an open source project, the output of the project is open source and designed for reuse and even devs not participating can benefit from using your library. Google does something similar with their Summer of Code for example. Thoughts on that versus a contest?

 

 

You're just pissed that I didn't have any competitors.

ZippyV said:

Dan said:

*snip*

You're just pissed that I didn't have any competitors.

I remember getting an honorable mention in a Bing contest with only ~20 entries.

and more lectures, like the promised STL series by STL,

and more interviews by researchers outside of microsoft, like those ones about V8 and Newspeak when they were coming ms for Lang.NET,

and more news reports from other industry conferences, like this one, , and OSCON, QCON, OOPSLA etc

and more History series from Tina, and interviews from historic figures.

felix9 said:

I want to hear more stories about how real development works done at microsoft, like this pdc session about wpf trasition of dev10,

 

and more lectures, like the promised STL series by STL,

 

and more interviews by researchers outside of microsoft, like those ones about V8 and Newspeak when they were coming ms for Lang.NET,

 

and more news reports from other industry conferences, like this one, , and OSCON, QCON, OOPSLA etc

 

and more History series from Tina, and interviews from historic figures.

STL Lecture series starts today! => http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going+Deep/C9-Lectures-Introduction-to-STL-with-Stephan-T-Lavavej/

I'm heading to Portland end of July-ish to cover the emerging langs conference. I'm trying to convince Dan to let me go to JAOO this year.

C

Charles said:

kettch said:

*snip*

We will continue to do both. There is not, nor has there ever been, an EitherOr monad, just a Both 

 

Sometimes, the studio is the best place to shoot demo-heavy pieces, lectures and conversational pieces. Sometimes, the office is the best place (like today's impromptu Archivist interview). Sometimes, Michael comes with us to offices to shoot high quality OldSchool (like the IE team interviews, Larry's NUI pieces, etc). Since you want more of this, and we asked you what you want, we will deliver.

 

Plurality is a good thing!

 

Keep on posting,

C

What were those two challenge shows you had a few years back? One was in a casino, other was shopping center. They were great.

Give a random 'team' a real world challenge to solve with Microsoft technologies minus the production cost.

Stick Dovella in Microsoft HQ, see what happens.

felix9 said:

I like the idea that putting people from different worlds into the same room , like that one about JRuby and Ruby.NET, maybe you can do this for similars things like, Mozilla/Chrome/IE guys or JVM/CLR guys or even Linux/NT guys, if possible and suitable, hmmmm...... 

That would be awesome.

Bass said:

felix9 said:

*snip*

That would be awesome.

++;

With Erik Meijer moderating for that added brain meltiness.

felix9 said:

I like the idea that putting people from different worlds into the same room , like that one about JRuby and Ruby.NET, maybe you can do this for similars things like, Mozilla/Chrome/IE guys or JVM/CLR guys or even Linux/NT guys, if possible and suitable, hmmmm...... 

That would be epic! And a great discusion/talk about HTML5

ZippyV said:

Dan said:

*snip*

You're just pissed that I didn't have any competitors.

LOL!

Dan said:

Bas said:

*snip*

On the contest front, I'm normally the guy to say that this is a bad idea, given how many contests that Microsoft runs (avg 1/week). I won't repeat the rant on my blog on this  http://blogs.msdn.com/b/danielfe/archive/2008/03/17/microsoft-the-contest-machine.aspx, but you'd be surprised by how little participation some of these contests get. Further, for a community like C9, I think collaboration instead of competition would be a better option.

 

On the collaboration front, one of the things Clint and I were discussing for Coding4Fun was to have sponsored open source projects. So a dev team would submit an idea for a useful app or library, and if they get approved, we fund them to develop their idea. That way, you get folks collaborating on an open source project, the output of the project is open source and designed for reuse and even devs not participating can benefit from using your library. Google does something similar with their Summer of Code for example. Thoughts on that versus a contest?

 

 

Hmmm... maybe a series of video alerts about contests with a low number of entrants so we can enter and be in with a high chance of winning?

More swag would go nicely with the Windows 7 t-shirt I won a while back

GoddersUK said:

Dan said:

*snip*

Hmmm... maybe a series of video alerts about contests with a low number of entrants so we can enter and be in with a high chance of winning?

 

More swag would go nicely with the Windows 7 t-shirt I won a while back

Surely there's a usergroup near you? The UK is littered with them

GoddersUK said:

Dan said:

*snip*

Hmmm... maybe a series of video alerts about contests with a low number of entrants so we can enter and be in with a high chance of winning?

 

More swag would go nicely with the Windows 7 t-shirt I won a while back

Very true, almost none of the contests say anything about reusing an app from a previous contest. In fact, that's what someone did for the original Summer of Express contest on C9.

If you only knew how much money and effort go into [some of] these contests...you'd get mad, then angry too

Dan said:

GoddersUK said:

*snip*

Very true, almost none of the contests say anything about reusing an app from a previous contest. In fact, that's what someone did for the original Summer of Express contest on C9.

 

If you only knew how much money and effort go into [some of] these contests...you'd get mad, then angry too

Wait a minute...

Charles said:

Richard.Hein said:

*snip*

This is in the works A new series of Lectures on category theory, "Category 9", with Erik Meijer and peers. How does that sound? Lamda Calculus as well.

 

Stay tuned.

C

Fantastic!

More behind the scenes stuff, love to see some more stuff like Sara Ford did showing us one of the agile meetings in the CodePlex team.

More interviews with the coders, testers and the like.

And more from Scott Guthrie. Always like to hear him talk tech.

Richard.Hein said:

Charles said:

*snip*

Fantastic!

++

Ion Todirel said:

I'd like to see more interviews with the compiler folks, not necessarily C#. I know you guys did a very good job at that, doing regular interviews with Anders, the JavaScript folks and more. More specifically I'd be interested in POGO (PGO), the new C++ intellisense compiler and perhaps with the ASP.NET folks on where do they see ASP.NET heading. Some more interviews with the XBOX folks would be nice too. Having a calendar with the scheduled interviews would be nice.

And what happened with that Phoenix compiler?

ZippyV said:

Ion Todirel said:

*snip*

And what happened with that Phoenix compiler?

I don't know about Phoenix, but if you're interested in what can be done with a componentizeable compiler toolchain, you should check out what the LLVM and CLang projects are doing to provide a modern replacement for GCC.

rhm said:

ZippyV said:

*snip*

I don't know about Phoenix, but if you're interested in what can be done with a componentizeable compiler toolchain, you should check out what the LLVM and CLang projects are doing to provide a modern replacement for GCC.

On the topic of LLVM, Mono 2.6 and above can compile C# to LLVM bytecode.

SteveRichter said:

The going deep interviews don't do it for me.  Once the content goes over my head, the rest of the video becomes pointless to watch. I rarely finish viewing them. I don't think this is completely the fault of me and my short attention span. For example, until Anders gave his explanation of  F# and functional programming ( C# with readonly class members ) I was not able to understand the concept.   The interviewer has a real important role to play of knowing when to stop the presenter and ask them to re explain a concept in a different way.  C9 has to try different people doing the interviewing.  Or show the video to a room of people who are able to understand the content. At the end, quiz them to see what they understand.  If the viewers can't explain what they just heard, a good case can be made that the interviewer could have done better.

 

Not agreed. Going deep isn't really a classroom. On the other hand, the audience in the Algorithms lecture series was a pretty good idea.

Some parts of Access 2010 are really hard to learn. The forms designer is brutal.  There is a minimum of intellisense in the embedded/prompted macro language that Access uses as an alternative to VBA.  All of Office 2010 is still so 1980s with it reliance on VBA.  C9 tells me Sharepoint is great, great, great. Then I find out I have to upgrade my server to 8GB of RAM and a sharepoint license costs a huge amount of money. ( min $5K ).   Come on, C9, be an advocate for managed code in Office!

WCF can be very hard to troubleshoot. The VS wizards create all this code for you, which is great. But when problems occur, like size limits imposed by IIS, and it can take a lot of concentration and slogging thru the wizard created code to get the solution.

The SQL server I installed as part of my MSDN subscription last year decided to shut itself down. Trial period ended. Go to MSDN forums, 20 minutes of solid work searching for an answer, then composing a question. Wait a few hours, told to do an edition upgrade.  Download and install the upgrade. Install fails, some sort of authority error. But I am running as admin on the server. Research, post question on the forum, find out about this and that, run as admin using a command line script, still fails.  Post more questions, wait, wait, wait, my test data is locked up in the expired sql server, days are going by. I am learning about how to recover by databases from the DATA folder, the many ways to install sql server, the different security accounts and where the error logs are. All great to know, but so time consuming and what does this have to do with writing software applications?  After a few days of this, I still don't have the problem solved. I place an MSDN support incident call.  The support techs can't work out the problem. More than a few hour long sessions with the tech taking remote control of my system. Capturing huge process explorer trace logs.  I can understand there being a bug in sql server. But how can server 2008 R2 and sql server not have facilities built in that allow better troubleshooting?

One last mini rant. How can it be that a.) a visual studio add-in is still really hard to write ( just look at the code the wizard creates when you create an addin project ) and b.) you still can't enumerate all the commands and command bars of the VS2010 IDE? http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vsx/thread/90cd3c1b-0057-45ed-a072-bc32703872c8  Not very important of course. But didn't C9 just spend the last 6 months broadcasting video after video about the totally rewritten visual studio 2010? Sure, DSLs are great ( based on what C9 tells me ), but why is it still so much work to add code generating components to VS2010?  And where is the access that an addin developer needs to the CodeDOM for use in generating code? I don't think VS2010 introduced any more features on this front.  VS is great at compiling your project on the fly. But the addin developer can't get at what is likely a wealth of data about the code of a project.

Of course I also would like to see everyone's favourites Hanselman, Eric, the Gu and if I may add Anders (Hallowed be His name).

ZippyV said:

Ion Todirel said:

*snip*

And what happened with that Phoenix compiler?

What do you want to know about Phoenix outside of what we have already shared on 9? I'll ask the Phoenix people about latest state.

C

exoteric said:

SteveRichter said:

*snip*

Not agreed. Going deep isn't really a classroom. On the other hand, the audience in the Algorithms lecture series was a pretty good idea.

Yuri likes to have students in the room when he lectures. He prefers real time interaction with learners. This pattern will continue for these lectures, which will probably air on a quartely basis given how much work Yuri does as a practicing scientist working for MSR. I really like the way this worked out having Sampy and Karsten in the room given their varying levels of specific understanding of computer science and mathematical concepts, yet both are excellent professional developers. This helps all of us who are learning along since their questions should span what many viewers would also ask with similar backgrounds and level of knowledge. Excellent job, Sampy and Karsten.

In terms of Steve's criticism of Going Deep being too advanced, this is fair, but the idea behind some of what we discuss in the series, which spans several technical domains, assumes a certain operational knowledge amongst viewers. I think what we need to do is provide more introductory and intermediate level technical content (like this lecture, which does not assume you know what an algorithm is or that you are an advanced CS student - of course, you should have an interest in the topic and some experience with programming or math or science).

What if we formalized a level system (like level 100 (intro) to level 400 (advanced))? In fact, you will see this approach in a lecture series from the Windows team on DirectCompute. I'd love to get your feedback on that progression (thanks to Gus Class for providing the DirectCompute lectures!).

C

more direct x

more gpgpu,

more (any) kinect

also, more twc9 on location in hawaii

aL_ said:

more gpu,

more direct x

more gpgpu,

more (any) kinect

also, more twc9 on location in hawaii

Just as channel 9 peers into Microsoft's technical infrastructure. I would like videos that peer into Microsoft's business structure.

Show people how Microsoft negotiates volume licensing and how some businesses will pay more or less for the same products and services as other businesses.

Let's have some videos on how microsoft carries out it's business and OEM deals. Expose everything.

javaplayer said:

aL_ said:

*snip*

Just as channel 9 peers into Microsoft's technical infrastructure. I would like videos that peer into Microsoft's business structure.

Show people how Microsoft negotiates volume licensing and how some businesses will pay more or less for the same products and services as other businesses.

Let's have some videos on how microsoft carries out it's business and OEM deals. Expose everything.

Specifically, please explain how Microsoft charges $5500 for MSDN premium services, yet other vendors sell subscriptions through 2013 for $529.

Explain why only select businesses are given free licenses through bizspark, but others are not.

Explain why Steve Ballmer cancelled his ski trip to emergency fly to Munich to sell them volume licensing in 2004.

Show us the art of the Microsoft deal. What kind of cologne on a sales rep makes people buy more product?

Isn't it time to show the world how the Microsoft business works instead of just technical speaches about abstract concepts that bore people silly at Universities?

aL_ said:

more gpu,

more direct x

more gpgpu,

more (any) kinect

also, more twc9 on location in hawaii

in general i feel like c9 is slipping after the cutting egde in terms of new technology.. it was quite a while since ive saw some tech (software or hardware) that i had not seen before and saw first on channel 9.

examples of this occuring is the multi touch mice in larrys video and things like Rx. the mice didnt get much more covarage though..

the prime example of missing content from c9 is of course kinect, probably the most interesting thing from a software prespective in a long time. but also gpu and direct x that i mentioned earlier. the ie9 project is really showing what kind of stuff you can do with directx in the non gaming space and i think alot more things like that would pop up if directx got more face time on c9 and other ms sites (like windowsclient)

i understand if some ms higher ups are keeping kinect of the "air" [although i must say kinect is not beeing handles very well by ms PR at the moment, but thats beside the point] but id really like to see more of the core research that has gone in to that.

the image tracking, skeletal mapping, voice recognition, and all that stuff.

javaplayer said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

Specifically, please explain how Microsoft charges $5500 for MSDN premium services, yet other vendors sell subscriptions through 2013 for $529.

 

Explain why only select businesses are given free licenses through bizspark, but others are not.

Explain why Steve Ballmer cancelled his ski trip to emergency fly to Munich to sell them volume licensing in 2004.

 

Show us the art of the Microsoft deal. What kind of cologne on a sales rep makes people buy more product?

 

Isn't it time to show the world how the Microsoft business works instead of just technical speaches about abstract concepts that bore people silly at Universities?

Speak for yourself please.

javaplayer said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

Specifically, please explain how Microsoft charges $5500 for MSDN premium services, yet other vendors sell subscriptions through 2013 for $529.

 

Explain why only select businesses are given free licenses through bizspark, but others are not.

Explain why Steve Ballmer cancelled his ski trip to emergency fly to Munich to sell them volume licensing in 2004.

 

Show us the art of the Microsoft deal. What kind of cologne on a sales rep makes people buy more product?

 

Isn't it time to show the world how the Microsoft business works instead of just technical speaches about abstract concepts that bore people silly at Universities?

I think you were gone javaplayer, after your insistence on previous threads that it would be your last message!

As for MSDN subscriptions, I don't think you can call someone putting something on eBay as a "vendor" as there are plenty of example of people re-selling software for a lot cheaper on eBay, some of which can/has been pirated or a scam.

If you want information on how our sales program works, feel free to call them and talk to them: (800) 426-9400, Monday through Friday, 6:00 A.M.–5:30 P.M. Pacific Time. You can find plenty of information online on how you qualify for volume licensing and the specific licensing programs Microsoft has .

As for why businesses are given free licenses for BizSpark, the goal is to lower the barrier for entries for startups to build applications and services using Microsoft software. Startups told us that the high cost of entry for a company just starting out is why they weren't using Microsoft technology, so we worked out specific licensing deals that would enable them to and also provide value for startups in the form of a connection and sponsorship with venture capital firms.  There is of course an associated cost with the program, but rather than repeat the details you can go to the BizSpark Web site or watch our Channel 9 interview with Dan'l Lewin on the BizSpark program.

As for the art of the deal, I'd suggest asking IBM as they have the largest sales force of any company in high tech and they are considered the leaders in sales - it's how you convice people to buy $150,000+ licenses for WebSphere adapters for SAP.

Dan said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

I think you were gone javaplayer, after your insistence on previous threads that it would be your last message!

 

As for MSDN subscriptions, I don't think you can call someone putting something on eBay as a "vendor" as there are plenty of example of people re-selling software for a lot cheaper on eBay, some of which can/has been pirated or a scam.

 

If you want information on how our sales program works, feel free to call them and talk to them: (800) 426-9400, Monday through Friday, 6:00 A.M.–5:30 P.M. Pacific Time. You can find plenty of information online on how you qualify for volume licensing and the specific licensing programs Microsoft has .

 

As for why businesses are given free licenses for BizSpark, the goal is to lower the barrier for entries for startups to build applications and services using Microsoft software. Startups told us that the high cost of entry for a company just starting out is why they weren't using Microsoft technology, so we worked out specific licensing deals that would enable them to and also provide value for startups in the form of a connection and sponsorship with venture capital firms.  There is of course an associated cost with the program, but rather than repeat the details you can go to the BizSpark Web site or watch our Channel 9 interview with Dan'l Lewin on the BizSpark program.

 

As for the art of the deal, I'd suggest asking IBM as they have the largest sales force of any company in high tech and they are considered the leaders in sales - it's how you convice people to buy $150,000+ licenses for WebSphere adapters for SAP.

 

 

 

 

 

Bizspark licensing is at the discretion of Microsoft. There are no hard set qualifying guidelines. Microsoft simply approves people affiliated with it to get bizspark licensing which in and of itself makes it a scam. I have seen material proof of this.

"As for the art of the deal, I'd suggest asking IBM as they have the largest sales force of any company in high tech and they are considered the leaders in sales - it's how you convice people to buy $150,000+ licenses for WebSphere adapters for SAP."

I didn't ask IBM, I asked Microsoft. Companies that deal with IBM always have the choice to go here:

http://ws.apache.org/

and download Tomcat and the free alternatives which IBM donated to the Apache foundation and use them on CentOS for free.

IBM doesn't tell people otherwise or have some widespread psy-ops based military-like and political campaigns to sell services.

I can't remember the last time I saw an IBM billboard. I never heard of IBM paying bloggers with free laptops to post blog messages about their products for instance. I never saw IBM pay an audience to pretend to cheer when their speakers finished a presentation when it was filmed. I certainly don't remember IBM sending me letters telling me how to vote on a proposition or trying to buy a vote.

"I think you were gone javaplayer, after your insistence on previous threads that it would be your last message!"

You meant that you thought I was gone. Yes, I am gone.

I'd love more interviews about advanced stuff in research, as well as the old school technical interviews with people like Rico Mariani on performance profiling etc. More Soma, Guthrie, Haacked and Mariani. C9 user-submitted questions for the folks at for example Windows Live, the Windows team etc.

javaplayer said:

Dan said:

*snip*

Bizspark licensing is at the discretion of Microsoft. There are no hard set qualifying guidelines. Microsoft simply approves people affiliated with it to get bizspark licensing which in and of itself makes it a scam. I have seen material proof of this.

 

"As for the art of the deal, I'd suggest asking IBM as they have the largest sales force of any company in high tech and they are considered the leaders in sales - it's how you convice people to buy $150,000+ licenses for WebSphere adapters for SAP."

 

I didn't ask IBM, I asked Microsoft. Companies that deal with IBM always have the choice to go here:

http://ws.apache.org/

and download Tomcat and the free alternatives which IBM donated to the Apache foundation and use them on CentOS for free.

 

IBM doesn't tell people otherwise or have some widespread psy-ops based military-like and political campaigns to sell services.

I can't remember the last time I saw an IBM billboard. I never heard of IBM paying bloggers with free laptops to post blog messages about their products for instance. I never saw IBM pay an audience to pretend to cheer when their speakers finished a presentation when it was filmed. I certainly don't remember IBM sending me letters telling me how to vote on a proposition or trying to buy a vote.

 

"I think you were gone javaplayer, after your insistence on previous threads that it would be your last message!"

 

You meant that you thought I was gone. Yes, I am gone.

Incorrect, Tomcat wasn't created by IBM, it was created by Sun and even then, you're comparing apples to oranges, I'm talking about WebSphere and WebSphere adapters which are not free. If you want the same option from Microsoft, you can buy a copy of Windows Server 2008 Web Server Edition for $500 USD or sign up for a hoster for $9.99/month.

Both IBM and Microsoft sell their software at a cost and customers can choose whether the value of the software is worth the benefit. 

In fact, in 2009, IBM's software group had $8.1 billion or 42% of its pre-tax income from software sales and IBM is also one of the largest companies to manage Windows, Exchange, and Windows Servers in the world. The point being, IBM doesn't give away it's software for free, in fact, its software business is growing.  

But if you really don't want to pay Microsoft, build you applications using Silverlight and your choice of free tools, from Visual Web Developer Express to Notepad, or even Eclipse and have your Silverlight applications hosted on UNIX, CentOS using apache, Windows or whatever. And if you want to rebuild your own version, try the Mono Project and recompile to your heart's content.

As for your remainder comments, at this point, I'm going to have to consider you a troll. Instead of being able to have a discussion about the merits of one platform or another, you just start ranting.  

javaplayer said:

Dan said:

*snip*

Bizspark licensing is at the discretion of Microsoft. There are no hard set qualifying guidelines. Microsoft simply approves people affiliated with it to get bizspark licensing which in and of itself makes it a scam. I have seen material proof of this.

 

"As for the art of the deal, I'd suggest asking IBM as they have the largest sales force of any company in high tech and they are considered the leaders in sales - it's how you convice people to buy $150,000+ licenses for WebSphere adapters for SAP."

 

I didn't ask IBM, I asked Microsoft. Companies that deal with IBM always have the choice to go here:

http://ws.apache.org/

and download Tomcat and the free alternatives which IBM donated to the Apache foundation and use them on CentOS for free.

 

IBM doesn't tell people otherwise or have some widespread psy-ops based military-like and political campaigns to sell services.

I can't remember the last time I saw an IBM billboard. I never heard of IBM paying bloggers with free laptops to post blog messages about their products for instance. I never saw IBM pay an audience to pretend to cheer when their speakers finished a presentation when it was filmed. I certainly don't remember IBM sending me letters telling me how to vote on a proposition or trying to buy a vote.

 

"I think you were gone javaplayer, after your insistence on previous threads that it would be your last message!"

 

You meant that you thought I was gone. Yes, I am gone.

Welcome back!

aL_ said:

more gpu,

more direct x

more gpgpu,

more (any) kinect

also, more twc9 on location in hawaii

Agree on all points

Dan said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

Incorrect, Tomcat wasn't created by IBM, it was created by Sun and even then, you're comparing apples to oranges, I'm talking about WebSphere and WebSphere adapters which are not free. If you want the same option from Microsoft, you can buy a copy of Windows Server 2008 Web Server Edition for $500 USD or sign up for a hoster for $9.99/month.

 

Both IBM and Microsoft sell their software at a cost and customers can choose whether the value of the software is worth the benefit. 

In fact, in 2009, IBM's software group had $8.1 billion or 42% of its pre-tax income from software sales and IBM is also one of the largest companies to manage Windows, Exchange, and Windows Servers in the world. The point being, IBM doesn't give away it's software for free, in fact, its software business is growing.  

 

But if you really don't want to pay Microsoft, build you applications using Silverlight and your choice of free tools, from Visual Web Developer Express to Notepad, or even Eclipse and have your Silverlight applications hosted on UNIX, CentOS using apache, Windows or whatever. And if you want to rebuild your own version, try the Mono Project and recompile to your heart's content.

 

As for your remainder comments, at this point, I'm going to have to consider you a troll. Instead of being able to have a discussion about the merits of one platform or another, you just start ranting.  

 

 

 

"Incorrect, Tomcat wasn't created by IBM, i"

in response to:

"download Tomcat and the free alternatives which IBM donated to the Apache foundation"

IBM donated WSIF and a lot of the other code which falls under Apache Web Services. I'm sorry if you have a reading comprehension problem.

"I'm talking about WebSphere and WebSphere adapters which are not free."

You can download webshere here for free. But I think you may mean that the adapters such as the ones IBM uses from partners such as Axway/Cyclone for websphere for AS/2 protocol and various other connector solutions including database connectors are not free. There are often times free alternatives to these which you can use with Web Services frameworks if you have a small IT department. IBM sells big solutions to big companies with large scale demands. To compare connectors and small tools to the type of services they provide is comparing Apples to Oranges.

"But if you really don't want to pay Microsoft"

In regards to using Silverlight, Adobe was giving away Flashbuilder 4 to students and those who were unemployed. You can get a free copy of Flashbuilder 4 here.

That said, HTML5 and the tools to build movies with HTML5 web technologies are going to take the forefront. Google is making sure that happens.

"Instead of being able to have a discussion about the merits of one platform or another, you just start ranting."

After your "We're not as bad as IBM" response, I see that you are dellusional. I see remedial reading training in your future.

This website has shown it's unpleasant nature, and I can can see that time spent here is wasted.

javaplayer said:

Dan said:

*snip*

"Incorrect, Tomcat wasn't created by IBM, i"

 

in response to:

 

"download Tomcat and the free alternatives which IBM donated to the Apache foundation"

 

IBM donated WSIF and a lot of the other code which falls under Apache Web Services. I'm sorry if you have a reading comprehension problem.

 

"I'm talking about WebSphere and WebSphere adapters which are not free."

 

You can download webshere here for free. But I think you may mean that the adapters such as the ones IBM uses from partners such as Axway/Cyclone for websphere for AS/2 protocol and various other connector solutions including database connectors are not free. There are often times free alternatives to these which you can use with Web Services frameworks if you have a small IT department. IBM sells big solutions to big companies with large scale demands. To compare connectors and small tools to the type of services they provide is comparing Apples to Oranges.

"But if you really don't want to pay Microsoft"

 

In regards to using Silverlight, Adobe was giving away Flashbuilder 4 to students and those who were unemployed. You can get a free copy of Flashbuilder 4 here.

 

That said, HTML5 and the tools to build movies with HTML5 web technologies are going to take the forefront. Google is making sure that happens.

 

"Instead of being able to have a discussion about the merits of one platform or another, you just start ranting."

 

After your "We're not as bad as IBM" response, I see that you are dellusional. I see remedial reading training in your future.

This website has shown it's unpleasant nature, and I can can see that time spent here is wasted.

This is incredibly tedious and off-topic for this thread. Why not start another thread for your tedious droning?

javaplayer said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

Specifically, please explain how Microsoft charges $5500 for MSDN premium services, yet other vendors sell subscriptions through 2013 for $529.

 

Explain why only select businesses are given free licenses through bizspark, but others are not.

Explain why Steve Ballmer cancelled his ski trip to emergency fly to Munich to sell them volume licensing in 2004.

 

Show us the art of the Microsoft deal. What kind of cologne on a sales rep makes people buy more product?

 

Isn't it time to show the world how the Microsoft business works instead of just technical speaches about abstract concepts that bore people silly at Universities?

It's a free country and Microsoft has a right to sell products to a customer at the price they wish. If you don't agree then piss off to cuba where you can regulate others to your heart's desire. What's there more to know really. If you threaten to use Eclipse they will halve MSDN subscriptions, if you threaten to use Linux they will halve Windows license costs.

If you want to know more about that then go to business school or dunno read pdfs that came out as result of antitrust lawsuit, especially those that have name James Plamondon in them. Trust me, those pdfs are good read, http://techrights.org/comes-iowa-trial-exhibits/ is where you can get them. But don't disturb C9, it's a site about tech not about business.

Dan said:

aL_ said:

*snip*

Agree on all points

Moar Singularity. 

RoyalSchrubber said:

Dan said:

*snip*

Moar Singularity. 

I want to hear more about anything on a first-party native design-time compiler for CIL. Mono's done it, why not Microsoft?

W3bbo said:

RoyalSchrubber said:

*snip*

I want to hear more about anything on a first-party native design-time compiler for CIL. Mono's done it, why not Microsoft?

That sounds like ahead-of-time (AOT) compilation like what Ngen or Sing# compiler already do.

W3bbo said:

RoyalSchrubber said:

*snip*

I want to hear more about anything on a first-party native design-time compiler for CIL. Mono's done it, why not Microsoft?

Because it defeats the point of the CLR.

javaplayer said:

Dan said:

*snip*

"Incorrect, Tomcat wasn't created by IBM, i"

 

in response to:

 

"download Tomcat and the free alternatives which IBM donated to the Apache foundation"

 

IBM donated WSIF and a lot of the other code which falls under Apache Web Services. I'm sorry if you have a reading comprehension problem.

 

"I'm talking about WebSphere and WebSphere adapters which are not free."

 

You can download webshere here for free. But I think you may mean that the adapters such as the ones IBM uses from partners such as Axway/Cyclone for websphere for AS/2 protocol and various other connector solutions including database connectors are not free. There are often times free alternatives to these which you can use with Web Services frameworks if you have a small IT department. IBM sells big solutions to big companies with large scale demands. To compare connectors and small tools to the type of services they provide is comparing Apples to Oranges.

"But if you really don't want to pay Microsoft"

 

In regards to using Silverlight, Adobe was giving away Flashbuilder 4 to students and those who were unemployed. You can get a free copy of Flashbuilder 4 here.

 

That said, HTML5 and the tools to build movies with HTML5 web technologies are going to take the forefront. Google is making sure that happens.

 

"Instead of being able to have a discussion about the merits of one platform or another, you just start ranting."

 

After your "We're not as bad as IBM" response, I see that you are dellusional. I see remedial reading training in your future.

This website has shown it's unpleasant nature, and I can can see that time spent here is wasted.

Just to follow up here, I've perma-banned JavaPlayer because, as many of you guessed, this was another Beer28 account.

Dan said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

Just to follow up here, I've perma-banned JavaPlayer because, as many of you guessed, this was another Beer28 account.

Not really a surprise. Any chance we can setup an IP level ban? I don't care if a Class C is caught in that.

W3bbo said:

RoyalSchrubber said:

*snip*

I want to hear more about anything on a first-party native design-time compiler for CIL. Mono's done it, why not Microsoft?

I seriously doubt a AOT compilation performs any better than JIT... maybe the one area is start-up performance... which unfortunately, MS has on begun to pay attention to very recently

PaoloM said:

Dan said:

*snip*

Not really a surprise. Any chance we can setup an IP level ban? I don't care if a Class C is caught in that.

now now

Minh said:

W3bbo said:

*snip*

I seriously doubt a AOT compilation performs any better than JIT... maybe the one area is start-up performance... which unfortunately, MS has on begun to pay attention to very recently

Why do you say that? Presumably there are many optimizations that cannot happen "just in time" because they are too expensive to perform. The Singularity papers appear to argue against the CLR/IL approach for various reasons, one of which is performance.

Also, I still don't know if W3bbo means anything other than ahead-of-time by "design-time".

Dan said:

javaplayer said:

*snip*

Just to follow up here, I've perma-banned JavaPlayer because, as many of you guessed, this was another Beer28 account.

Thank you. Beer......
C

exoteric said:

Minh said:

*snip*

Why do you say that? Presumably there are many optimizations that cannot happen "just in time" because they are too expensive to perform. The Singularity papers appear to argue against the CLR/IL approach for various reasons, one of which is performance.

 

Also, I still don't know if W3bbo means anything other than ahead-of-time by "design-time".

My understanding is that it's the opposite. NGEN has the disadvantage of targeting the lowest common denominator.

And I don't think the any compiler is going to be able to turn a bubble sort into a quick sort

exoteric said:

Minh said:

*snip*

Why do you say that? Presumably there are many optimizations that cannot happen "just in time" because they are too expensive to perform. The Singularity papers appear to argue against the CLR/IL approach for various reasons, one of which is performance.

 

Also, I still don't know if W3bbo means anything other than ahead-of-time by "design-time".

Mono's compiler can directly compile C# to native code, even to the point where having Mono is unnecessary (it is smart enough to compile the class dependencies). I think that is what W3bbo is talking about.

AFAIK there is some limitations, such as some things in System.Reflection thatg don't work in Mono AOT, and certain creative uses for generics don't work.

In my tests Mono AOT usually provides a 5-10% speed boost in CPU bound synthetic benchmarks over Mono JIT.

Bass said:

exoteric said:

*snip*

Mono's compiler can directly compile C# to native code, even to the point where having Mono is unnecessary (it is smart enough to compile the class dependencies). I think that is what W3bbo is talking about.

AFAIK there is some limitations, such as some things in System.Reflection thatg don't work in Mono AOT, and certain creative uses for generics don't work.

 

In my tests Mono AOT usually provides a 5-10% speed boost in CPU bound synthetic benchmarks over Mono JIT.

Thanks for the information. The next question is then whether that uses LLVM under the hood - otherwise I'd imagine plenty more room for improvement. But that's off topic in this thread.

I concur on "the state of Phoenix" as an interesting topic.

exoteric said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Thanks for the information. The next question is then whether that uses LLVM under the hood - otherwise I'd imagine plenty more room for improvement. But that's off topic in this thread.

 

I concur on "the state of Phoenix" as an interesting topic.

Mono doesn't use LLVM. I'm not sure if it pre-dates it, but it pre-dates it being well know and used in production scenarios. The codegen is all their own work and pretty competitive with Microsoft's CLR in a straight line. What lets it down is it's garbage collector.

rhm said:

exoteric said:

*snip*

Mono doesn't use LLVM. I'm not sure if it pre-dates it, but it pre-dates it being well know and used in production scenarios. The codegen is all their own work and pretty competitive with Microsoft's CLR in a straight line. What lets it down is it's garbage collector.

My friends, please keep this thread on topic: What you want to know(what do you want from C9)... OK? Thank you!

This makes it easier for us to parse through your ideas that are relevant to this specific thread and our execution plan.

C

Charles said:

rhm said:

*snip*

My friends, please keep this thread on topic: What you want to know(what do you want from C9)... OK? Thank you!

 

This makes it easier for us to parse through your ideas that are relevant to this specific thread and our execution plan.

C

How about an update on Silverlight for Symbian?  What issues have the dev team had?  What are the plans for the future?

Minh said:

A working web site?

Be nice, Minh.
C

exoteric said:

Bass said:

*snip*

Thanks for the information. The next question is then whether that uses LLVM under the hood - otherwise I'd imagine plenty more room for improvement. But that's off topic in this thread.

 

I concur on "the state of Phoenix" as an interesting topic.

Mono can compile CIL to LLVM bytecode with Mono 2.6. Mono 2.8 improves this even further. This is a seperate thing from Mono's AOT compiler AFIAK, but eventually it will probably replace it.

Minh said:

A working web site?

Works for me.

Duncanma said:

I'd like to see a really in depth whiteboard chat about Razor and (not the same chat) IIS Express... we use Spark and wish we could use Cassini (but don't trust that it will accurately model the production use of IIS) so both of these are huge annoucements to us...

We'll go deeper, but Dan posted a great intro today: http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Dan/Simon-Calvert--Scott-Hunter-WebMatrix-and-the-new-Razor-Syntax/

Nice work, Fernandez.

C

Charles said:

Duncanma said:

*snip*

We'll go deeper, but Dan posted a great intro today: http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Dan/Simon-Calvert--Scott-Hunter-WebMatrix-and-the-new-Razor-Syntax/

 

Nice work, Fernandez.

C

Kiss-*  

Charles - I'd like to see a going deep on how they built their parser and colorizer. The things that they're able to do to detect HTML versus code is pretty hot

Dan said:

Charles said:

*snip*

Kiss-*  

 

Charles - I'd like to see a going deep on how they built their parser and colorizer. The things that they're able to do to detect HTML versus code is pretty hot

And here I was trying to be nice...

Sounds good. I'll set something up.

C

We will use these ideas in our content planning for this year.

Keep on posting,

C

Charles said:

Dan said:

*snip*

And here I was trying to be nice...

 

Sounds good. I'll set something up.

C

Setting up a GD on Razor for next week with one of the Razor devs. Niners, what do you want to know about Razor in addition to Dan's questions?

C

Dan said:

Charles said:

*snip*

Kiss-*  

 

Charles - I'd like to see a going deep on how they built their parser and colorizer. The things that they're able to do to detect HTML versus code is pretty hot

Yea ditto on the parser (and what happens with legal HTML which isn't legal XML). Because I might want to steal it for something else

blowdart said:

Dan said:

*snip*

Yea ditto on the parser (and what happens with legal HTML which isn't legal XML). Because I might want to steal it for something else

Interview is taking place on Monday, July 12. Keep the questions coming.

C

Charles said:

blowdart said:

*snip*

Interview is taking place on Monday, July 12. Keep the questions coming.

C

Somebody said that Razor is slower because it's more complicated than asp.net's <% ...%> stuff but Razor seems to be more simple?

ZippyV said:

Charles said:

*snip*

Somebody said that Razor is slower because it's more complicated than asp.net's <% ...%> stuff but Razor seems to be more simple?

Razor seems like it would be harder to parse than regular ASP.NET, but that's a one-time cost when the page is compiled. After that I don't see any reason why it would perform any differently than regular ASP.NET.

Charles said:

kettch said:

*snip*

We will continue to do both. There is not, nor has there ever been, an EitherOr monad, just a Both 

 

Sometimes, the studio is the best place to shoot demo-heavy pieces, lectures and conversational pieces. Sometimes, the office is the best place (like today's impromptu Archivist interview). Sometimes, Michael comes with us to offices to shoot high quality OldSchool (like the IE team interviews, Larry's NUI pieces, etc). Since you want more of this, and we asked you what you want, we will deliver.

 

Plurality is a good thing!

 

Keep on posting,

C

I would really like to know more about the compilation process of  managed code. Specifically how it relates to optimizations. Both for the language compiler (C#) but more importantly the jit compiler.

- How does it determine when to inline

- How does it determine when to unroll loops

- Does it insert mmx/sse code, and if so, when and how. How about newer extensions, AVX etc.? How about a SIMD extension to the language like in mono. Simple stuff, like when I do a div, does it use x87 code or mmx? how is it determined.

I always kinda thought it weird that the c# compiler itself apparently does very little optimization and the bulk of it is left to the jitter, which makes sense for platform specific optimizations, but even so, perhaps the c# compiler should simply provide more time consuming analysis of the source in form of the metadata to the jitter. What I'm getting at is that the c# compiler seems too damn fast to me. Make it Slower! Also jitter seems fast, but dont make that one slower, hehe. Engage

Other than that, more Kernel stuff. How about a statement from the recent W8 leak, lol, though I doubt MS would like to comment on that.

Oh, also, get Eric Lippert on camera. I'd love to see a lecture series with him.

Charles said:

blowdart said:

*snip*

Interview is taking place on Monday, July 12. Keep the questions coming.

C

watching the C9Live with Mark Russinovich reminded me that it would be great to see Mark give a tour of Windows architecture (as a C9 Lectures series?), not just in the context of "what's new in version X" but in general, like a video companion to his Windows Internals books. or if there's no time for that, a tour through the lens of a specific scenario (like the "what happens when you start Notepad?" brought up in the video) might be interesting.

Charles said:

blowdart said:

*snip*

Interview is taking place on Monday, July 12. Keep the questions coming.

C

When I was looking at the razor code in scottgu's post, suddenly I remembered Lucian Wischik once said in one of his presentation on language design, answering a question about why c# doesnt have xml literals, "I have told Anders at least once recently that if c# has implemented xml literals this wont be a problem", Lucian didnt mention what the 'this' is in his talk, but I guess it could be the razor parser ! hmmm.......

so its all about what the '<' symbol means right ?

.... but can you use xml literals in VBHTML ???

How is that for an idea? It would be an introspective show on introspectivism, tail recursion at its best. This is very exciting.

-Josh

JoshRoss said:

This might be a strange request, but could we get a behind-the-scenes show about Channel9? Like what kind of things are done to keep the content flowing, how are favorite shows are put together, what kind of tools the admins have for combating spam, etc.

 

How is that for an idea? It would be an introspective show on introspectivism, tail recursion at its best. This is very exciting.

 

-Josh

Who would ask the questions though? Would have to be someone not of Channel9. Which could be funny as heck.

blowdart said:

JoshRoss said:

*snip*

Who would ask the questions though? Would have to be someone not of Channel9. Which could be funny as heck.

We could tag team them. You from the inside, me from the weirdside.

PaoloM said:

blowdart said:

*snip*

We could tag team them. You from the inside, me from the weirdside.

Not a bad idea! Maybe you guys should do a Channel 9 piece on Channel 9. Keep it OldSchool -> walk around the offices of the team, meet the people behind the 9 ball...

C

Charles said:

PaoloM said:

*snip*

Not a bad idea! Maybe you guys should do a Channel 9 piece on Channel 9. Keep it OldSchool -> walk around the offices of the team, meet the people behind the 9 ball...

C

It would be horribly tempting to make ball comments.

Yea, there might be a lot of editing needed.

blowdart said:

JoshRoss said:

*snip*

Who would ask the questions though? Would have to be someone not of Channel9. Which could be funny as heck.

I'd love to see Minh interview the C9 dev team.

Bas said:

blowdart said:

*snip*

I'd love to see Minh interview the C9 dev team.

Ooh! Seconded!  Go on, get Minh in for a day!

Herbie

Dr Herbie said:

Bas said:

*snip*

Ooh! Seconded!  Go on, get Minh in for a day!

 

Herbie

 

Haha oh yea, that would be stunning or Minh interview any team where he has strong opinions!

Bas said:

blowdart said:

*snip*

I'd love to see Minh interview the C9 dev team.

+1 Minh is my hero

blowdart said:

Dr Herbie said:

*snip*

Haha oh yea, that would be stunning or Minh interview any team where he has strong opinions!

I'd like to see the team interview Minh afterwards too! 

exoteric said:

blowdart said:

*snip*

I'd like to see the team interview Minh afterwards too! 

By interview you mean plummel with large sticks right? No? Just me?

blowdart said:

exoteric said:

*snip*

By interview you mean plummel with large sticks right? No? Just me?

By any means necessary - be it whiteboarding, blackboarding or other, legal kinds of boarding

Charles said:

PaoloM said:

*snip*

Not a bad idea! Maybe you guys should do a Channel 9 piece on Channel 9. Keep it OldSchool -> walk around the offices of the team, meet the people behind the 9 ball...

C

We would have to do what Mary Jo Foley's does. Sneeking around, talking folks up, funny business.  I'm in!

-Josh

JoshRoss said:

Charles said:

*snip*

We would have to do what Mary Jo Foley's does. Sneeking around, talking folks up, funny business.  I'm in!

 

-Josh

Nah. The Niner would be our special guest and would therefore not have to sneak around...
C

RADICAL 2010

Motivation

RADICAL is a workshop on databases and programming languages, with an emphasis on connections between databases and recent advances in type systems and logics, especially dependent type systems incorporating data constraints.

We aim to cover significant recent developments in directions including (but not limited to) the following:

• Language-integrated query mechanisms transform code in typed programming languages into forms suitable for efficient execution by relational database back-ends. Examples include the use of monads, pioneered in Haskell, in systems such as Microsoft LINQ, Links, and Ferry. Another example is SGL, a declarative language for massive multi-player games, which compiles to efficient relational queries.
• Grammars, context free or regular, can be seen as types, and hence allow textual data to be imported into typed data models (as in PADS, various XML systems, and Microsoft's M Grammar).
• Information flow type systems, developed in the area of language-based security, are starting to be applied to database systems, for example, to help track data provenance, confidentiality, and integrity.
• Systems of dependent types including data constraints (as in eg Z, VDM, etc) have long been able to express database integrity constraints, but with recent advances in automation (eg SMT solvers) typecheckers can now verify statically that queries and updates respect these constraints.
• The dream of verified software stacks is starting to come true, thanks in no small part to advanced type systems found in interactive proof assistants. Recent work on verified implementations of database systems starts to address the correctness question for database implementations.
• Workflow and database systems are essential components of many enterprises, but often have difficulties interoperating. Ideas such as temporal logic from the verification community are being imported into databases to help monitor and verify the interactions between workflows and databases.
• Finally, according to many metrics SQL is not just the most successful declarative language of the 1970s but of all time. But SQL is indeed a creation of the 1970s and since then research on declarative languages and type systems in particular has made much progress. Many researchers share the dream of eventually replacing SQL with a higher-level, safer, easier-to-use database programming language. We see the research directions covered by RADICAL 2010 as steps toward this dream.

I'm not sure how to incorporate these topics but they sure look interesting.

It's also worth noting that Oracle, having aquired Sun Microsystems, now owns both a formiddable set of database and virtual machine technology, so it would be surprising if we didn't see more action in the database integration space.

exoteric said:

See this:

 

RADICAL 2010

 

Motivation

 

RADICAL is a workshop on databases and programming languages, with an emphasis on connections between databases and recent advances in type systems and logics, especially dependent type systems incorporating data constraints.

 

We aim to cover significant recent developments in directions including (but not limited to) the following:

• Language-integrated query mechanisms transform code in typed programming languages into forms suitable for efficient execution by relational database back-ends. Examples include the use of monads, pioneered in Haskell, in systems such as Microsoft LINQ, Links, and Ferry. Another example is SGL, a declarative language for massive multi-player games, which compiles to efficient relational queries.
• Grammars, context free or regular, can be seen as types, and hence allow textual data to be imported into typed data models (as in PADS, various XML systems, and Microsoft's M Grammar).
• Information flow type systems, developed in the area of language-based security, are starting to be applied to database systems, for example, to help track data provenance, confidentiality, and integrity.
• Systems of dependent types including data constraints (as in eg Z, VDM, etc) have long been able to express database integrity constraints, but with recent advances in automation (eg SMT solvers) typecheckers can now verify statically that queries and updates respect these constraints.
• The dream of verified software stacks is starting to come true, thanks in no small part to advanced type systems found in interactive proof assistants. Recent work on verified implementations of database systems starts to address the correctness question for database implementations.
• Workflow and database systems are essential components of many enterprises, but often have difficulties interoperating. Ideas such as temporal logic from the verification community are being imported into databases to help monitor and verify the interactions between workflows and databases.
• Finally, according to many metrics SQL is not just the most successful declarative language of the 1970s but of all time. But SQL is indeed a creation of the 1970s and since then research on declarative languages and type systems in particular has made much progress. Many researchers share the dream of eventually replacing SQL with a higher-level, safer, easier-to-use database programming language. We see the research directions covered by RADICAL 2010 as steps toward this dream.

I'm not sure how to incorporate these topics but they sure look interesting.

 

It's also worth noting that Oracle, having aquired Sun Microsystems, now owns both a formiddable set of database and virtual machine technology, so it would be surprising if we didn't see more action in the database integration space.

And how does this ctrl-v business relate to this thread? Do you want more M coverage?

MasterPie said:

Bas said:

*snip*

+1 Minh is my hero

Thanks dad!

blowdart said:

exoteric said:

*snip*

By interview you mean plummel with large sticks right? No? Just me?

Me + Octagon + blowdart + C9 dev team...

"Let's get ready to RUUUUUUUUUUUUMBLE!!"

JoshRoss said:

exoteric said:

*snip*

And how does this ctrl-v business relate to this thread? Do you want more M coverage?

 

Isn't it obvious, Josh?

There's a list of topics in there with practical impact for more or less all developers, at least at some point in time. Some of it has already happened (LINQ, M), some of it is still ahead.

It's the cutting edge between research and technology that fascinates me - pipelining advanced ideas into new products. A subsequent topic is how these things are then applied internally (dogfooding); especially because Microsoft is one of its own largest customers and how they solve their problems is worthwhile to hear about. Success stories in other words (or potentially, failure stories.)

I also can't wait to see RxC++ roll out, and that's not as a C++ developer but just to experience better products as a result of this technology and to carry over lessons learned to C# and .NET development, where possible, or vice versa.

I think Charles knows best who to talk to and when, so the list can be seen as a list of topics to dive into. I'll leave it up to C9 on how to materialize it, they've been doing fine in the past.

I will say that two people that do interesting things that it would be interesting to hear from again are: Eric Lippert (great blog, underexposed here) and Joe Duffy (also great blog, also underexposed here).

Minh: Boxing? ... I had imagined wrestling heh

exoteric said:

JoshRoss said:

*snip*

Isn't it obvious, Josh?

 

There's a list of topics in there with practical impact for more or less all developers, at least at some point in time. Some of it has already happened (LINQ, M), some of it is still ahead.

 

It's the cutting edge between research and technology that fascinates me - pipelining advanced ideas into new products. A subsequent topic is how these things are then applied internally (dogfooding); especially because Microsoft is one of its own largest customers and how they solve their problems is worthwhile to hear about. Success stories in other words (or potentially, failure stories.)

 

I also can't wait to see RxC++ roll out, and that's not as a C++ developer but just to experience better products as a result of this technology and to carry over lessons learned to C# and .NET development, where possible, or vice versa.

 

I think Charles knows best who to talk to and when, so the list can be seen as a list of topics to dive into. I'll leave it up to C9 on how to materialize it, they've been doing fine in the past.

 

I will say that two people that do interesting things that it would be interesting to hear from again are: Eric Lippert (great blog, underexposed here) and Joe Duffy (also great blog, also underexposed here).

 

Minh: Boxing? ... I had imagined wrestling heh

I can box a little... My Wii Boxing score is thru the roof... But I much prefer MMA... you can do much more damage

exoteric said:

JoshRoss said:

*snip*

Isn't it obvious, Josh?

 

There's a list of topics in there with practical impact for more or less all developers, at least at some point in time. Some of it has already happened (LINQ, M), some of it is still ahead.

 

It's the cutting edge between research and technology that fascinates me - pipelining advanced ideas into new products. A subsequent topic is how these things are then applied internally (dogfooding); especially because Microsoft is one of its own largest customers and how they solve their problems is worthwhile to hear about. Success stories in other words (or potentially, failure stories.)

 

I also can't wait to see RxC++ roll out, and that's not as a C++ developer but just to experience better products as a result of this technology and to carry over lessons learned to C# and .NET development, where possible, or vice versa.

 

I think Charles knows best who to talk to and when, so the list can be seen as a list of topics to dive into. I'll leave it up to C9 on how to materialize it, they've been doing fine in the past.

 

I will say that two people that do interesting things that it would be interesting to hear from again are: Eric Lippert (great blog, underexposed here) and Joe Duffy (also great blog, also underexposed here).

 

Minh: Boxing? ... I had imagined wrestling heh

I will get Eric to come on. He's got a lot to teach us. In terms of Joe, well he's working on a private incubation... I'll see if he has anything not related to what he's doing to talk about (he's also incredibly busy, so don't hold your breath...).

C

Charles said:

exoteric said:

*snip*

I will get Eric to come on. He's got a lot to teach us. In terms of Joe, well he's working on a private incubation... I'll see if he has anything not related to what he's doing to talk about (he's also incredibly busy, so don't hold your breath...).

 

C

ah, there are too many of the greatest guys working on that 'incubation' project and become invisible and 'extremely busy', hmmm....

so, any chances for other great ones, like eh.... Herb Sutter ? Neal Gafter ? Remond Chen ? just a few examples

felix9 said:

Charles said:

*snip*

ah, there are too many of the greatest guys working on that 'incubation' project and become invisible and 'extremely busy', hmmm....

 

so, any chances for other great ones, like eh.... Herb Sutter ? Neal Gafter ? Remond Chen ? just a few examples

Yes. Chen is not interested, however (never has been....). Sutter will be on again. Not sure about Neal.

C

blowdart said:

Dan said:

*snip*

Yea ditto on the parser (and what happens with legal HTML which isn't legal XML). Because I might want to steal it for something else

http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going+Deep/Andrew-Nurse-Inside-Razor/

C

exoteric said:

Did anyone mention Anders Hejlsberg? I have a feeling (slash hopeful thinking) we'll be seeing him at the next PDC, revealing more details and ideas for C# 5.0 though.

Cue Boston's More Than a Feeling....

C

Some ideas:

- Robotics

- Machine Learning / AI

- Computer Vision

- Natural Language Processing

- Operating System Design and Implementation

Bass said:

More C9 Lectures.

 

Some ideas:

- Robotics

- Machine Learning / AI

- Computer Vision

- Natural Language Processing

- Operating System Design and Implementation

All great suggestions. Noted.

C

Charles said:

Bass said:

*snip*

All great suggestions. Noted.

C

Simon Peyton-Jones on the cutting edge and future of Haskell and C--. Secondarily, what he thinks about Phoenix.

Looking at his 2010 papers he's been busy:

New papers

• [July 2010] Generative Type Abstraction and Type-level Computation (with Stephanie Weirich, Dimitrios Vytiniotis, and Steve Zdancewic).  This paper, submitted to POPL'11, describes how to combine Haskell's new abilities to do type-level computation with the old ability to do type abstraction using newtypes.  Rather surprisingly (to me) the two are in tension, and the solution is quite interesting.
• [June 2010] Seq no more (by Simon Marlow, Patrick Maier, Phil Trinder, Hans-Wolfgang Loidl, and Mustafa Aswad).  A new take on the "algorithms + strategies = parallelism" story, providing a nice Haskell library to support parallel computation.  To appear at the 2010 Haskell Symposium.
• [June 2010] Supercompilation by evaluation (with Max Bolingbroke).  This is our first foray into supercompilation.  To appear at the 2010 Haskell Symposium.
• [June 2010] The performance of Haskell 'containers' package (by Milan Straka).  Milan did this work while an intern here at MSR Cambridge.  To appear at the 2010 Haskell Symposium.
• [May 2010] Modular type inference with local assumptions (with Dimitrios Vytiniotis, Tom Schrijvers, Martin Suzmann).  This epic 70-page JFP submission brings together, in a single uniform framework, a series of our earlier papers on type inference for type systems involving local constraints, including GADTs and indexed type families.
• [April 2010] Hoopl: A Modular, Reusable Library for Dataflow Analysis and Transformation (with John Dias and Norman Ramsey). This paper,completely rewritten in April 2010, describes our framework for doing dataflow optimisation on imperative C-- programs. To appear at the 2010 Haskell Symposium.
• [April 2010] Regular, shape-polymorphic, parallel arrays in Haskell (with Manuel Chakravarty, Gabriele Keller, Roman Leshchinskiy, and Ben Lippmeier) describes a high-performance data-parallel library for regular arrays. To appear at ICFP 2010.

exoteric said:

Charles said:

*snip*

Simon Peyton-Jones on the cutting edge and future of Haskell and C--. Secondarily, what he thinks about Phoenix.

 

Looking at his 2010 papers he's been busy:

 

New papers

• [July 2010] Generative Type Abstraction and Type-level Computation (with Stephanie Weirich, Dimitrios Vytiniotis, and Steve Zdancewic).  This paper, submitted to POPL'11, describes how to combine Haskell's new abilities to do type-level computation with the old ability to do type abstraction using newtypes.  Rather surprisingly (to me) the two are in tension, and the solution is quite interesting.
• [June 2010] Seq no more (by Simon Marlow, Patrick Maier, Phil Trinder, Hans-Wolfgang Loidl, and Mustafa Aswad).  A new take on the "algorithms + strategies = parallelism" story, providing a nice Haskell library to support parallel computation.  To appear at the 2010 Haskell Symposium.
• [June 2010] Supercompilation by evaluation (with Max Bolingbroke).  This is our first foray into supercompilation.  To appear at the 2010 Haskell Symposium.
• [June 2010] The performance of Haskell 'containers' package (by Milan Straka).  Milan did this work while an intern here at MSR Cambridge.  To appear at the 2010 Haskell Symposium.
• [May 2010] Modular type inference with local assumptions (with Dimitrios Vytiniotis, Tom Schrijvers, Martin Suzmann).  This epic 70-page JFP submission brings together, in a single uniform framework, a series of our earlier papers on type inference for type systems involving local constraints, including GADTs and indexed type families.
• [April 2010] Hoopl: A Modular, Reusable Library for Dataflow Analysis and Transformation (with John Dias and Norman Ramsey). This paper,completely rewritten in April 2010, describes our framework for doing dataflow optimisation on imperative C-- programs. To appear at the 2010 Haskell Symposium.
• [April 2010] Regular, shape-polymorphic, parallel arrays in Haskell (with Manuel Chakravarty, Gabriele Keller, Roman Leshchinskiy, and Ben Lippmeier) describes a high-performance data-parallel library for regular arrays. To appear at ICFP 2010.

Would be great to talk to Simon again. That said, he works and lives in Cambridge, UK. So, we'll see if he's up for this when he next visits Redmond.

C

Charles said:

exoteric said:

*snip*

Would be great to talk to Simon again. That said, he works and lives in Cambridge, UK. So, we'll see if he's up for this when he next visits Redmond.

C

any chances for people like Ted Neward (for the 'language renaissance' for example ) or Charles Petzold ( for the Annotated Turing book ) ?

and the devscovery conference http://www.devscovery.com/ especially the new talk of Erik Meijier: "JavaScript is an Assembly Language" since you've discussed this with Gilad Bracha recently.

http://www.devscovery.com/Sessions/Detail/Redmond%202010/2/2

felix9 said:

Charles said:

*snip*

any chances for people like Ted Neward (for the 'language renaissance' for example ) or Charles Petzold ( for the Annotated Turing book ) ?

 

and the devscovery conference http://www.devscovery.com/ especially the new talk of Erik Meijier: "JavaScript is an Assembly Language" since you've discussed this with Gilad Bracha recently.

 

http://www.devscovery.com/Sessions/Detail/Redmond%202010/2/2

It's not a new talk, actually. MSIL to JS was one of the cornerstones of "Volta", which Erik and team developed 2-3 years ago... That said, the talk is a re-branding of RxJS talk Would be great to get Petzold on camera. Thanks for the link to Devcovery 2010 Redmond. I just may have to crash that party....

C

Charles said:

felix9 said:

*snip*

It's not a new talk, actually. MSIL to JS was one of the cornerstones of "Volta", which Erik and team developed 2-3 years ago... That said, the talk is a re-branding of RxJS talk Would be great to get Petzold on camera. Thanks for the link to Devcovery 2010 Redmond. I just may have to crash that party....

C

Ahh... RxJS ... the summery doesnt even mention async or reactive ...

Jeffrey Richter will be great too but for what topic ? anything ?

felix9 said:

Charles said:

*snip*

Ahh... RxJS ... the summery doesnt even mention async or reactive ...

 

Jeffrey Richter will be great too but for what topic ? anything ?

Richter's been a nine a few times. He's a generalist, as you infer, so it's easy to find good topics he can dig into.

C

C