What would you do for MS?

Steve411 said:

I would go work for MS any day. I run a Computer Repair business and that is going good, too. There is a high demand for that here in WA and the profit is just unbelievable. I have been trying to get a Software Engineer position at a good firm and finally have my chance at Triple E technologies in Post Falls, ID (http://www.e3tek.com/).

 

I get to meet the team and check it all out on Tuesday, my second "interview".

 

I am so excited and pumped for this!

 

Well, I wouldn't work for MS -- I prefer working for small, non-bureaucracy-laden companies with little or no middle-management and  where I see the owner/MD every day and call him by his first name.

Plus I don't think I'd pass an MS interview, but that's beside the point. 

This might well be why my salary plateaued a couple of years ago,which I'm in two-minds about:  like where you work versus like what you're paid.

Herbie

dahat said:

PaoloM said:

*snip*

PS: Oh yeah, no moonlighting. Forget side businesses in the US.

Even if we ignore the whole contractual reasons you may not be able to do such a thing... lord knows one doesn't exactly have much time/energy left for such things... but that's ok, I love what I do and put in the time & energy I do exactly because of that love.

I figured with a $100k/year salary from MSR

You keep assuming that that number is accurate and immediate. I hate to burst your bubble, but you keep assuming that IF you could get such a job (many apply, few are interviewed, even fewer are highbred) that you would get such a salary on day one.

 

Hell, a buddy of mine (with a PHD) just started last month in a research role in the hardware group and doesn't make 100k, in fact he only makes a couple bucks more than me.

"Hell, a buddy of mine (with a PHD) just started last month in a research role in the hardware group and doesn't make 100k, in fact he only makes a couple bucks more than me."

That's truly sad. I honestly thought you all worked there because they were paying you really high salaries.

When you see what the company grosses and nets and how much of that the employees get if what you are saying is true, it should make you really mad. MSFT has a huge profit margin in the software industry.

If you wanna make over 100k, just go over to the SF Bay or Socal software/DBA section of Craigslist and apply. Google lists there too.

Get some books on negotiating salaries too. 10 minutes of missed reading will most likely cost you tens of thousands of dollars per year.

The MSFT investors and or the company won't care or know if you got another 20-30k in a salary negotiation. It's not going to hurt anyone. The only one you're hurting is yourself by working for less.

So sad.

If I could work at Microsoft, it would have to be Steve Ballmer's job. No point trying to work my way up

Dr Herbie said:

Steve411 said:

*snip*

Well, I wouldn't work for MS -- I prefer working for small, non-bureaucracy-laden companies with little or no middle-management and  where I see the owner/MD every day and call him by his first name.

 

Plus I don't think I'd pass an MS interview, but that's beside the point. 

 

This might well be why my salary plateaued a couple of years ago,which I'm in two-minds about:  like where you work versus like what you're paid.

 

 

Herbie

Why not work for yourself and have both ?

leeappdalecom said:

Dr Herbie said:

*snip*

Why not work for yourself and have both ?

That's the eventual plan, but now is not the right time (sole breadwinner to provide for wife and two small kids).  Don't fancy contracting because I don't travel well,so I need a product and some customers ...

Herbie

Dr Herbie said:

Steve411 said:

*snip*

Well, I wouldn't work for MS -- I prefer working for small, non-bureaucracy-laden companies with little or no middle-management and  where I see the owner/MD every day and call him by his first name.

 

Plus I don't think I'd pass an MS interview, but that's beside the point. 

 

This might well be why my salary plateaued a couple of years ago,which I'm in two-minds about:  like where you work versus like what you're paid.

 

 

Herbie

You and me sound very similar. I too highly doubt I'd want to work for a large corporation and frankly see my career as progressing through smaller businesses until I get a great idea and start my own.

I hate, HATE, politics, middle management, and silly pointless rules. Plus I like working independently and with technical people rather than "business" people (which is more common in smaller companies).

I might do the contractor thing also - would be nice to set my own hours and get paid for what I do rather than what they feel like paying me for.

Michael Butler said:

If I could work at Microsoft, it would have to be Steve Ballmer's job. No point trying to work my way up

 

 

I know you're being facetious, but this is kinda my problem when it comes to working in a big company. (And unlike others I would like to work in a big company because I know I work best when others are around me.) But what would I actually DO for a big company?

Technically I'm a dev, I have pretty good dev skills, but that's not what I'D bring to a company, it doesn't reflect my personal strengths.

As a person, I bring ideas, like for everything. You want a feature? Sure, give me ten minutes and I'll give you a list of ideas; I'll even give you rough ideas on how to implement them, and how to gradually introduce them if they're a dramatic change. I've got a bit of a reputation for being a original (that's the polite term) thinker, even when I think I'm being pretty conservative.

But in what job would an organization find that skill useful? Short of CEO? It's vexing that MS haven't written asking me to lead them, but what's a guy to do?

blowdart said:

W3bbo said:

*snip*

Yes, but a few people with high salaries will skew the average.

 

MS works with bands, and each band has it's own range. Moving up the lower bands (<62) is mainly a matter of exceeding expectations, but once you get to the level 63 hop it becomes a bit more challenging as your manager has to justify that leap to their peers. 63-64 needs skip level manager agreement, and again is justified with peers.  Mini microsoft has a good explanation/summary.

Wait a minute...level 63? Are you implying that there are 63 (or more) levels of seniority at MS? No wonder they can't get anything done in any respectable amount of time.

spivonious said:

blowdart said:

*snip*

Wait a minute...level 63? Are you implying that there are 63 (or more) levels of seniority at MS? No wonder they can't get anything done in any respectable amount of time.

There aren't 64 levels, it actually starts at 50 and goes up to 70, according to these leaked documents.

Massif said:

Michael Butler said:

*snip*

I know you're being facetious, but this is kinda my problem when it comes to working in a big company. (And unlike others I would like to work in a big company because I know I work best when others are around me.) But what would I actually DO for a big company?

 

Technically I'm a dev, I have pretty good dev skills, but that's not what I'D bring to a company, it doesn't reflect my personal strengths.

 

As a person, I bring ideas, like for everything. You want a feature? Sure, give me ten minutes and I'll give you a list of ideas; I'll even give you rough ideas on how to implement them, and how to gradually introduce them if they're a dramatic change. I've got a bit of a reputation for being a original (that's the polite term) thinker, even when I think I'm being pretty conservative.

 

But in what job would an organization find that skill useful? Short of CEO? It's vexing that MS haven't written asking me to lead them, but what's a guy to do?

 

That sounds like the perfect PM position at Microsoft

I really want to work for MS, but, I am also a South Calif LA addict. I am unable to relocate. My family, my FOOOOD, my bf, my wealther, all here in LA county. I so hope they would put an office down here. Wahhhh......

W3bbo said:

spivonious said:

*snip*

There aren't 64 levels, it actually starts at 50 and goes up to 70, according to these leaked documents.

MS pays at the 65th percentile for the role and experience.  This is widely documented on the internets.  As for levels, you NEVER see a developer at less than 59.  There aren't 20 levels.

100K isn't "rich", but you don't have to worry about money.  The benefits are great too (again, not the best on the planet, but it is hard to beat the healthcare anywhere in the US).  Also, that talk is about base salary.  Bonus and stock for good performance can make that much more. 

MS pays for performance.  A Phd who proves they can deliver more than a person with a BS will quickly make much more money then the person with the BS, even if they start with similar salary.  If the person with the BS can deliver more than a person with a PhD, that will be reflected in the pay as well.  As a person who has PhD's and Masters and BS educated employees working for me over the years, there isn't a direct correlation to getting things done and adding customer value. After getting hired into a product group (MSR may be different), your education isn't nearly as imporant as delivering high quality results.  If your education helps you do that, more power to you, but I gaurantee that your education plays no direct role during review time.