Oracle vs Google: The saga continues

http://infoworld.com/d/the-industry-standard/google-backs-out-javaone-conference-591

Google backs out of the popular JavaOne conference, after being a major participant for six years.

Google's pulling out of JavaOne indicates it and Oracle are not making much progress in their dispute, said IDC analyst Al Hilwa. He cited a possibility of fragmentation for Java: "It signals more serious rifts and risks for fragmenting Java. I wouldn't be surprised to see Google rebrand the Java-like language it uses for Android and stop trying to make it conform to Java at some point."

Notice the deja-vu? Isn't that exactly what Microsoft did 10 years ago?

Meanwhile, I think Redmond is the real winner here. They are probably enjoying seeing two of their most bitter competitors duke it out, but they aren't doing it from the sidelines. They even went as far to say that they wouldn't sue if .NET somehow appeared on Android. Is that a hint to Google, or perhaps a way to look more open then Java?

Regardless, if Google does decide to switch to .NET (IMO, highly unlikely), or roll their own framework, the real loser will be Java, and maybe even Oracle.

I really think Oracle has no leverge here: Java isn't the "compelling" feature of Android. It's quite obvious to me at least that if Google would have known Oracle would throw a fit about Android, they'd simply avoid using Java in the first place - and Android would have been as successful (or even more successful) without it. They even have their own JITing VM and core libraries. Language design isn't outside of Google's expertise, they count the designers of C and Python as employees ffs.

So good luck with the injunction Oracle.

Oracle might be spinning this as about the fragmentation of Java in order to gain sympathy from Java developers, but really it's about Google (and other Android phone manufacturers) not paying licence fees for Java. Even if Andoid implemented the exact J2ME spec but did so using the Dalvik VM and not paying a fee to Sun/Oracle, they would still be getting sued.

Welcome back Beer

rhm said:

Oracle might be spinning this as about the fragmentation of Java in order to gain sympathy from Java developers, but really it's about Google (and other Android phone manufacturers) not paying licence fees for Java. Even if Andoid implemented the exact J2ME spec but did so using the Dalvik VM and not paying a fee to Sun/Oracle, they would still be getting sued.

Google made the VM and most of the Android libraries all by themselves. I don't think Microsoft pays license fees for J#, do they?

I really doubt Google will adopt .NET, but they can learn from it's history. Really all Google needs to do is fix all of Java's annoying quicks add some interesting features to the language and call it some catchy name that can't be confused with "Java".  Android will be better for it anyway.

Bass said:

rhm said:

*snip*

Google made the VM and most of the Android libraries all by themselves. I don't think Microsoft pays license fees for J#, do they?

 

I really doubt Google will adopt .NET, but they can learn from it's history. Really all Google needs to do is fix all of Java's annoying quicks add some interesting features to the language and call it some catchy name that can't be confused with "Java".  Android will be better for it anyway.

The names C# and J# are already taken.

This really is the Microsoft-Sun debacle all over again, isn't it?

joechung said:

Bass said:

*snip*

The names C# and J# are already taken.

 

This really is the Microsoft-Sun debacle all over again, isn't it?

How about G#?

Nice! An image button that plays "miau" when you press it! Hello world, prepare to be taken over!

Bass said:

joechung said:

*snip*

How about G#?

G# could be for either Google# or Go#. From what I've seen so far, Go has failed to achieve critical mass. Perhaps the sharp moniker could give it the kick in the pants it needs, then again, maybe not.

-Josh

Bass said:

rhm said:

*snip*

Google made the VM and most of the Android libraries all by themselves. I don't think Microsoft pays license fees for J#, do they?

 

I really doubt Google will adopt .NET, but they can learn from it's history. Really all Google needs to do is fix all of Java's annoying quicks add some interesting features to the language and call it some catchy name that can't be confused with "Java".  Android will be better for it anyway.

When they lost the case Microsoft handed over a big pot of money and both companies signed an all-encompassing cross-licensing agreement. So yes, Microsoft has already coughed up the fees.

The thing is, Ellison is not stupid. He has weighed up the pros and cons of this lawsuit and probably knows one or two things that folk who live in the internet echo chamber don't.

1. In real terms, the percentage of Java developers who know or even care about this lawsuit is nowhere near double figures. The vast majority of Java bods work for large companies writing server side code. When I chatted to a few of them about the lawsuit, their first reactions was 'Whoa! Whoa! You mean Oracle bought Sun??' This has no bearing on the server where Java is still used heavily by the companies that can afford to run it. 
2. For all the posturing, I have yet to see one Java open source project canned because of the move. Google released an update to its GWT library only last week.
3. Ellison also knows how Google works. They will make a big noise about freedom and then they will do whatever is best for their bottom line, just like any other company and just like they did in China.
4. Sun botched Java on the desktop and the mobile long before Oracle got hold of it. Really, they don't have that much to lose because they had nothing to start with. 

This is what Ellison sees. Still remains to be seen if he's right.

<Yawn>

You know what the sad thing is? I'm not even going to call you a troll this time because I think you're so mental at this point, you actually believe all this rubbish. You're like the tech Glenn Beck - except you don't have any followers.

This is like watching five minutes of Pinkie and the Brain.

I'm sorry, I really thought that miau was going to take over hello.

Miau world is no more. LOLcat is sad.

Ray7 said:

This is like watching five minutes of Pinkie and the Brain.

 

What? No! I like Pinky and the Brain!

Look Chris, we keep you around just because any village needs their idiot.

But don't overdo it, ok? Once you go full retard, you don't come back.

PaoloM said:

Look Chris, we keep you around just because any village needs their idiot.

 

But don't overdo it, ok? Once you go full retard, you don't come back.

Good to see he is still around tho.  As for Oracle vs Google,  I dont know how the hell its going to end.  Its interesting nonetheless.

It is amazing that most devs think Java is free. But, then again, I never know how Sun / Oracle operates. But, I am woundering how those Java devs reacts when they see the potential law suits from Oracle.

Sven Groot said:

Ray7 said:

*snip*

What? No! I like Pinky and the Brain!

'What are we going to do tonight, Chris?'

'Same thing we do every night, Rich; we're going to take over the WORLD!'