Channel 9 Forums - Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

ACT10Npack — Thu, 05 May 2005 23:11:19 GMT

Paul just review Longhorn 5048 and it's not good for Microsoft that's for sure. He give it a 1 out of 5. There is no Avalon and other stuff and he says that its for like XP and 2003 combine.

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_5048.asp

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

Manip — Thu, 05 May 2005 23:15:05 GMT

XP looked poor until the last few betas before release. Microsoft has a way of pulling it all together at the last minute, until then anything you see is just not what Longhorn will become.

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

Tom Servo — Thu, 05 May 2005 23:23:02 GMT

He asserts that this build is targetted at the hardware folks, then he goes on to whine that the UI sucks, then again acknowledges that it's a developer build. Geez. Also, I thought the point of componentized build is to stuff things into winmain only when it's ready/necessary, and a lot of the planned stuff isn't necessary to write device drivers. Keeping their new stuff under wraps as long as possible is not unexpected, considering how they shot themselves into their feet, remember "Redmond, start your photocopiers"?

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

Manip — Fri, 06 May 2005 00:42:05 GMT

And because they have no legal right to...

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

Andre Da Costa — Fri, 06 May 2005 00:56:43 GMT

I think that review is unfair, and Paul is thinking too much with the end user mind set. Microsoft made it specifically clear this is for developing device drivers not for looking at and critiquing.

Shame on Paul, I expected better.

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

dnrfan — Fri, 06 May 2005 01:57:58 GMT

At WinHEC, they said MS has removed the 'My' prefix from Longhorn. Eg: My Documents, My Pictures etc

His screenys show the prefix. Maybe MS removed it after that build?

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

harumscarum — Fri, 06 May 2005 02:19:04 GMT

Did someone mention something about a suicidal rampage? It would be nice to get a review about this build by the people it was intended for.

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

irascian — Fri, 06 May 2005 06:33:03 GMT

Andre Da Costa wrote:

I think that review is unfair, and Paul is thinking too much with the end user mind set. Microsoft made it specifically clear this is for developing device drivers not for looking at and critiquing.

Shame on Paul, I expected better.

I keep reading this "defence" from Microsoft about how this build was aimed at hardware developers etc etc.

I haven't looked at Longhorn since a brief look at the PDC release WHICH WAS 18 MONTHS AGO!

In that 18 months timeframe Apple wrote and delivered Tiger while Microsoft seem to have done very little other than descope functionality. The much-hyped Longhorn blogs were set up but have been VERY quiet and one hoped it was because for the last 18 months people have been knuckling down to write something that's a big advance over XP.

Given the long gap and the lack of any real news over the last 18 months it's hardly surprising that the lastest CTP release is getting so many negative reviews.

By all means disagree about how long it takes to write a good operating system, but simply repeating the Microsoft mantra "It was never meant to be a release you looked at" sounds kind of lame. Maybe I'm wrong but have there been any rave reviews from those hardware folks the release WAS supposedly targeted at?

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

Manip — Fri, 06 May 2005 10:03:29 GMT

Also Microsoft needed to wait until the new Mac OS X is out before they could create an original GUI for Longhorn

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

Manip — Fri, 06 May 2005 10:08:38 GMT

Go back though the C9 threads, find every feature you've requested and that someone at Microsoft said is in Longhorn... And it isn't any kind of mantra it is the truth.Believe it or not Windows operating systems are built upof components, some optional. To write a version of the OS just for drive developers to use you don't need to includeany of those components. All they need to play with isthe NT 6.0 kernel and new driver interfaces. Do you not see that having a (I need to watch my language) about how the new Explore isn't pretty enough when you know full well that the explorer your looking at isn't the final one is just silly? You can (I need to watch my language) and complain all you want, nobody is forcing you to buy Longhorn so if you think it looks so (I need to watch my language) then simply don't.

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

KarelDonk — Fri, 06 May 2005 14:02:43 GMT

I read the article and I don't (I need to watch my language) understand why Thurrott can't (I need to seriously watch my language) understand that this (Boy do I need to watch my language) build is just a (I'm currently trying to watch my language) developer preview, and if he can't (I need to watch several of my languages) (I need to watch my language) (Trying to watch my language... failed.)

just kidding.

But I do wonder why the "press" can't understand what a pre-beta release is.

http://www.miraesoft.com/karel/?p=20

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

eagle — Fri, 06 May 2005 14:38:03 GMT

It's just bits not yet a beta, I think Paul needs to take vacation and spend more time with his family.

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

HellSnoopy — Fri, 06 May 2005 15:06:15 GMT

KarelDonk wrote:

I read the article and I don't (I need to watch my language) understand why Thurrott can't (I need to seriously watch my language) understand that this (Boy do I need to watch my language) build is just a (I'm currently trying to watch my language) developer preview, and if he can't (I need to watch several of my languages) (I need to watch my language) (Trying to watch my language... failed.)

just kidding.

But I do wonder why the "press" can't understand what a pre-beta release is.

http://www.miraesoft.com/karel/?p=20

Because that is the "press" job .. piss people off.

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

androidi — Fri, 06 May 2005 15:35:08 GMT

harumscarum wrote:

Did someone mention something about a suicidal rampage? It would be nice to get a review about this build by the people it was intended for.

You read my mind.

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

me — Fri, 06 May 2005 16:42:29 GMT

irascian wrote:

Andre Da Costa wrote: I think that review is unfair, and Paul is thinking too much with the end user mind set. Microsoft made it specifically clear this is for developing device drivers not for looking at and critiquing.

Shame on Paul, I expected better.

I keep reading this "defence" from Microsoft about how this build was aimed at hardware developers etc etc.

I haven't looked at Longhorn since a brief look at the PDC release WHICH WAS 18 MONTHS AGO!

In that 18 months timeframe Apple wrote and delivered Tiger while Microsoft seem to have done very little other than descope functionality. The much-hyped Longhorn blogs were set up but have been VERY quiet and one hoped it was because for the last 18 months people have been knuckling down to write something that's a big advance over XP.

Given the long gap and the lack of any real news over the last 18 months it's hardly surprising that the lastest CTP release is getting so many negative reviews.

By all means disagree about how long it takes to write a good operating system, but simply repeating the Microsoft mantra "It was never meant to be a release you looked at" sounds kind of lame. Maybe I'm wrong but have there been any rave reviews from those hardware folks the release WAS supposedly targeted at?

i agree completely

this goes well beyond the "label" of hardware release only

4 years of secrecy and promises ... then this.

What dont people understand about being letdown? It's an emotional thing to be sure

longhorn does seem very very behind, late, unfinished, unthought out and more.

IF it was business as usual - it would be no big deal. But Allchin made a big fuss about being secret so people would buy windows - then we hear all the great stuff LH will be - YEARS go by - and we get this. (*hooray for secrecy!)

To all hardware developers: - please forgive us Win enthusiasts for being let down - even if "technically" we have no right to be. (on a release like this)

..bugs..bugs...security...bugs..bugs...sp2...bugs...bugs...security...
4 years

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

AndyC — Fri, 06 May 2005 17:18:52 GMT

jamie wrote:

i agree completely

this goes well beyond the "label" of hardware release only

4 years of secrecy and promises ... then this.

What dont people understand about being letdown? It's an emotional thing to be sure

Your assuming that everything they currently have for Longhorn has been included in that build - it hasn't. I should imagine pretty much everyone here has played with the Avalon stuff, but that's not there. IE7 is approaching beta stage and that's also not there.

Complaining that bits are missing is a fundamental misunderstanding about what this build was intended for. Microsoft were handing it out to device driver developers so that they can try their code out on it. All the bits that aren't finalised or aren't stable are deliberately left out to provide the most reliable platform for testing drivers on.

Paul really ought to know better.

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

me — Fri, 06 May 2005 17:22:52 GMT

well if you read what paul wrote - he explains that the 4000 build series was dumped - and the new 5000 was a re-write using 2003 sp1 - but due to all the secrecy no one mentioned this...leading everyone to believe the last year was spent on building new stuff - not re-tooling

We know stuff wasnt included. We know its a hardware only release. We know we know we know.

some of us just expected this to be a lot further along.. and that's ok

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

Andre Da Costa — Fri, 06 May 2005 17:30:33 GMT

irascian wrote:

Andre Da Costa wrote: I think that review is unfair, and Paul is thinking too much with the end user mind set. Microsoft made it specifically clear this is for developing device drivers not for looking at and critiquing.

Shame on Paul, I expected better.

I keep reading this "defence" from Microsoft about how this build was aimed at hardware developers etc etc.

I haven't looked at Longhorn since a brief look at the PDC release WHICH WAS 18 MONTHS AGO!

In that 18 months timeframe Apple wrote and delivered Tiger while Microsoft seem to have done very little other than descope functionality. The much-hyped Longhorn blogs were set up but have been VERY quiet and one hoped it was because for the last 18 months people have been knuckling down to write something that's a big advance over XP.

Given the long gap and the lack of any real news over the last 18 months it's hardly surprising that the lastest CTP release is getting so many negative reviews.

By all means disagree about how long it takes to write a good operating system, but simply repeating the Microsoft mantra "It was never meant to be a release you looked at" sounds kind of lame. Maybe I'm wrong but have there been any rave reviews from those hardware folks the release WAS supposedly targeted at?

But the point remains, its for hardware developers, beta 1 is for the persons who want to start critquing the interface. I wouldn't even put too much faith in beta 1, since beta 2 will be release that defines what Longhorn will look like by RTM.

Apple does not have a plethora of OEMs using different hardware configurations. Remember Apple only has 1% of the market and 2 hardware configurations, so they can deliver much quicker. So there are many factors that affects the long development time for Windows Longhorn. You just have to be patient and let them make a great release.

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

me — Fri, 06 May 2005 17:39:01 GMT

if you mean critiquing the interface - graphics wise - i agree completely

but - after 4 years - ignoring the graphics - and looking at just the new UI placement of objects - obfuscating the gui to be more Mac like ( "my data is all over the place") removing List view ( hard to see files) and repeating interaction points multiple times...etc - it is worrying.

here: look at this - ignoring all graphics - just layout and placement:
http://www.jgrant.com/blog2/public/images_upload/lhbars.JPG

Id call that worrying and disapointing

hardware or no hardware - Graphics or no graphics

its harder to navigate - even after "learning" the new way it wants you to deal with your data

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

Ryan Hoffman — Fri, 06 May 2005 18:39:59 GMT

I wrote a blog entry right after WinHEC called "Why the WinHEC Longhorn build really shows progress..." so I won't repost my feelings here .

The thing I really want to know about is how Paul was allowed to post those screenshots. At WinHEC, Microsoft told me that I could not post screenshots of this build on Bink.nu and Extended64.com. Neowin and Paul Thurrott were told to take their screenshots down, and I was sitting 3 feet away from Paul when he removed the screenshots.

He gets away with so much .

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

eagle — Fri, 06 May 2005 18:51:16 GMT

I could tell the whole story, I got the "talk" along with Steven, but Longhorn is about preformance!

Screenshots on a pre-beta build mean nothing.

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

me — Fri, 06 May 2005 18:57:58 GMT

eagle wrote:

Screenshots on a pre-beta build mean nothing.

let's hope so

Coffeehouse - Paul review Longhorn 5048

eagle — Fri, 06 May 2005 22:11:23 GMT

I asked the Longhorn team one question at that blogger lunch in Seattle; will the UI on Longhorn be skinable? Answer: Yes

Paul was late for the lunch, he also got to spend a day at Microsoft after screengate.