Microsoft Hardware thread.

Hey!
Great idea ch.9 team! Congrats!
So I'd like to ride the wave and see if I can get a thread going related to the MS Hardware products.

MS PC hardware is this small (I wonder If I'm allowed to tell how many of us there are here) group within MS that at one point or another have been in the mice, keyboards, networking products, pc gaming, toys, phones, speakers, photovieweres, remote controls and (oh yea!) software business for 20 odd years. (I wonder if I should offer a price to anybody that can actually owns (or can name) an example of each one of those [and doesn’t work here]…)

Ahhh, glad you asked!

The Sidewinder joysticks were my favourites. I loved them. I still own several, but I know one day they'll wear out, and then I'll be forced to buy crap that doesn't work as well.

Keyboards with USB hubs - why do we not get them any more? They're great. I can't stand Wireless, it's too laggy when trying to play games (though it's been a while since I tried it).

The Notebook mouse is excellent, but the cable length makes it impractical for Desktop use by anyone without a... USB hub in their keyboard. So I have this moulding Internet Keyboard Pro - which you also can't get any more....

I'd even use an Ergo keyboard if I could get one with a USB hub.

I saw a mention of XNA supporting "common controllers" between PC and Xbox in the press release - I can only hope that this means that there'll be a new line of Sidewinder gear soon.

The products generally seem excellent, but fall short in the USB hub or lateral thinking departments.

/rant - sigh - I feel sooo much better for having vented.

yeap... you can expect an all brand new set of controllers from Microsoft, AFAIK they will no longer be market under the Sidewinder brand.

-R-

I bought an Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 about two years ago. The mouse is very comfortable and it helps my work a lot.

However, the mouse wheel is not scrolling correctly anymore because it's dirty inside. The left-button also fails sometimes. I can't clean it since I can't open the mouse (there are no screws and I'm afraid to open it using brute force).

So the question is: how can I open the mouse to clean it internally?+

Thanks.

I sent a list of carefully thought out suggestions months ago to Microsoft but it never went through, so I'm glad you asked. After looking through Outlook, I found a copy of them:

Shining Arcanine wrote:

Dear Microsoft,

I have been reading a review of your latest Intellimouse:

http://techreport.com/ja.zz?comments=6123

Although I am very interested in it. I already have a Logitech MouseMan from 1998. I will purchase your latest intellimouse in the future if I need a new mouse for some reason. However, I would buy it now if it had these features:

If it could use AA batteries and/or an internal Lithium battery. Logitech's current high end mouse has an internal battery that must be recharged monthly. Although that is a bit of a hassle I really would like it. Having the option to use AAs (or in other words, when the AAs are in, the internal battery I am suggesting isn't used) would help eliminate the downtime associated with an internal battery.

I understand that your mouse does not have balanced weight. I would like it if weight was equally distributed for video game usage.

Logitech's utmost mouse is optical. Optical mouses are low maintaince so I would enjoy this feature so I would not have to clean the mouse ball every 6 months.

The powersaving feature can create a lag when it goes into effect. This is not a good thing when a video game is playing. Options to disable it if a video game is playing or disable it all together (thus eliminating the slight lag when it goes out of power saving mode) would be a nice feature.

Please consider using my suggestions in future products.

Sincerely,
*Name Removed*

Thanx TristanK,

Yup, I agree... the sidewinder products were really cool...

True, we don't have usb hubs on keyboards anymore, they weren't all that popular, hard to believe, huh? Also some people had some bad experiences since they couldn't support high power usb devices. (It would have been rather odd having to plug a wallwart to your keyboard).
 
  You can still find what you are asking for on the net though. Look for the "Natural Keyboard Pro", it is ergo and has a couple of handy USB ports on the back. (To date I still use one of those whenever I'm not dogfooding).

Wireless? lag? Ahhh my friend... do we have a few surprises ready for you... check out the latest wireless mice, I believe you'll be happily surprised. (also let me know what you think of the new wheel).

Notebook mouse... is well.. meant for notebooks... that's why the cable is short... We figured you probably wouldn't want to be carrying the 2 meter cable in your laptop bag...

cool! I hadn't heard of xna (thanx for the link Rainier) Indeed they claim:

Q: What does Microsoft XNA offer gamers?
A: Better games, better experiences, faster. Microsoft XNA lays the groundwork for enhanced, more unified experiences, including a common controller that can be shared between the Windows PC and Xbox.
I'll have to look into that...

What do you mean by falling short on the lateral thinking department?

Carlos.

Thanx RicarDog,
glad you like it.

What do you mean the mouse does not scroll correctly? Does it go the wrong way? or do you feel like sometimes it misses counts?

I find it hard to believe that the reason your wheel is not working right is dirt... do you use it in very dusty environments? And the button? Does it feel like something is loose or out of place? are you missing double clicks?

The answer to your question would be: Please Don't. They are not meant to ever be opened again.
If you try to use brute force you will destroy the mouse. There is nothing you can fix inside of it.
If your mouse is really broke check your warranty, I don't remember what the warranty was for those, but it may still be covered.

Carlos.

Hi Shining Arcanine,

Thanx for the input...let me try to answer some of your comments (we have most of the features you want! he he).


I'm an engineer, and I don't do marketing very well... but let me give it a shot...

Our wireless mice do use AA batteries. They are not rechargeable, but the last generation last a long long time (over 6 months... and I use it at work!). As for minimizing downtime... well, if you install the software that comes with it you'll get two reminders close to when the battery will end, so you can change them whenever you feel like it... downtime = as fast as you can change batteries.

Balanced weight? Mhhh... good question! I'll ask the mechanical engineers next time I talk to them...

Optical mouse? Check! We were the first ones to come up with them

Power saving feature? the new mice are FAST... I mean they wake up and get you mousing faster than what humans can detect... The same applies for lag time... the wireless mice area as fast as the wired ones now.

Carlos.

I have 2 Wireless Elite Desktop sets on both of my computers in my home office. With the exception of the highly annoying 'F-Lock' feature I love the hardware itself. I really like to feel of the mouse. It's too bad I can't use it on my main system. Why? you ask. It's because of the functionality stripped out of the 5.0 Mouse driver as compared to the 4.12 driver.

First, the mouse wheel does not work with applications that do not natively support the wheel, such as VB6. This is a big deal to me since I spend most of my time developing in VB6 and will for at least the next year. Secondly, the number of keys you can reassign to the thumb buttons has been cut in half and you can't assign by application any longer. I had to go back to using my old Intellimouse Optical and the 4.12 driver because I need this functionality. The more comfortable feeling Elite Desktop mouse sits unused in a cabinet.

This is a huge deal out in the marketplace. Just take a look at the hardware support newsgroup. This issue gets pounded on over and over again. Floor sales at places like CompUSA, Best Buy, and Micro Center are recommending users NOT buy your mice because of this problem. Instead they're suggesting users buy LogiTech. They're doing this because of returns by unhappy customers who bought your products. Somebody at Microsoft needs to wake up and smell the coffee on this and get a complete driver issued.

The lateral thinking comment applies to the usage scenario for the "notebook" mouse - the high resolution (just twitch your fingers, no need to move your wrist) and tiny form factor make it very popular on desktops where the cable is long enough! Having an extension cable in the box would be a really good improvement, though I could just go out and buy one, I suppose

Re problems with the hub - I don't know that the USB hub was clearly marked as being a "low power" hub - that's probably all that's needed, and people tend to make the mistake once (I occasionally found devices that needed more power, but being able to plug a USB memory stick into the keyboard while I work is just vital). I really, really miss this as powered hubs increase the number of power cables again, and believe me, my work area is cablesville, and the devices that draw more power wouldn't necessarily make sense plugged into a keyboard.

And having looked at microsoft.com/hardware just then, I'm getting a wireless mouse, try and stop me!

TristanK,

You got me there... I guess we didn't anticipate that people would like the laptop mouse on the desktop... (I'll tell Eva), but laptop users commented that they didn't like/want the long cables :o
 
We can't include an extension cable in the box and they won't be easy to find, USB-If prohibits USB extensions...if you had extensions you could make cables long enough to break the minimum round trip time for the signal and then devices would not work right... unhappiness would result...

I won't stop you! Get a wireless bundle while you're at it (both kb and mouse) (less cables for cablesville), and you could get a small powered usb hub for the back of your desk...

The part about the low powered usb drives... I hear you.. I use that all the time too... it was a bit of a chicken and egg game... there were no usb drives back when we had hubs :/ amd I guess people didn't understand usb all that well either.Actually there were very few usb devices compared to nowadays.

Carlos.

Just to throw my two bits into the mouse & keyboard discussion ...

I have a laptop mouse plugged into my USB keyboard on one of my home machines.
Personally I love a big solid mouse - I have big hands - but my kids just can't use an Intellimouse Explorer.  The laptop mouse is perfect for them.

(Not entirely true - my 3-year-old insists on using "Daddy's Mouse" but my 5yo and my nephews all use the kids' mouse err ... the laptop mouse)

I also used a USB smart-card reader and it is so much easier to plug it into my keyboard than dig around under my desk to try to find a USB port on the back of my mini-tower case.

For my gaming rig I just got a Wireless Desktop Elite mouse/keybaord.  In my part of the world "Flock" is often used as a polite way of saying a 4 letter word that sounds somewhat similar.  It's funny how often that comes to mind when I consider the F-lock key on my keyboard.

Also someone mentioned it but I haven't seen a response.  What's up with the 6-key Insert/Home/etc. combo?  Many games use these as rotation or movement keys and having them in a different config makes their use totally non-intuitive.  I'm fortunate in that I have learned Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V/etc. for cut paste because if I'd learned to touch-type including the Shift-Insert/etc. combo.s I would be going crazy about now.

Mouse wheel - feels a little strange.  It moves completely smoothly but the movement is detected in steps.  I preferred when my steps clicked (or whatever).

Mine (dunno whether this is universal) is also quite stiff for pressing as a middle mouse button - I have to lift my hand and press straight down to make sure the mouse doesn't run away from the key-press.  Especially dificult in those apps that require you to hold the middle-mouse to scroll.

I haven't installed the Intellipoint 5 software - I generally try to avoid installing any drivers that aren't absolutely essential.  I had to install Intellitype - for some reason the keyboard stopped working altogether in one game without it.

I think I've rambled long enough for my first attempt.  Thanks for the forum.

Cheers,
James

I've found the number one reason I have to replace my Intellimouse is when they start double-clicking.
This seems to happen far more often than any other failure.

FrankCarr,
Thanx,

I see what you mean about VB6 (oddly enough the sidescrolling works!)... I'll ask around and see where the problem is...
As a workaround did you check http://www.gasanov.net/VBScroll.htm (disclaimer: use at your own risk


About the arbitrary assignment of keys of 4.12... and
Flock? Yea... we know... we are working on that...

Hang in there... thanx for the feedback..

Carlos.

Jcoates,


Lol! thanx for the post... that made me laugh...

so here is a way to hopefully help your Flock problems: http://www.mvps.org/jtsang/flock.html


Regarding the wheel feeling odd for not having 'stops' (we call them detents):

I understand that you don't want to install any 'unnecessary' software, however do me this 1 favor:
Create a restore point and install the latest intellipoint.
Then give the wheel a test drive for a little bit... not having detents will hopefully make sense now (you'll notice that you get much higher resolution plus the side scrolling...)
you can always uninstall intellipoint if you don't find it really cool (or go back to the restore point if you want to be extra picky... but the uninstall works well).

Carlos

I love the natural keyboards - but I have a major problem with them...

I got my parents the Natural Multimedia Keyboard - one of the ones with all the extra buttons on it.  So far, so good.

The only problem is with the "Function Lock"  its default state is OFF!!!!  I had to download a registry hack to get the F keys back without having to remember to press the F-Lock button on each start up!

I'm all for enhancing things - but leave the default behaviour alone... especially if it's going to break lots of applications (even Office 2K didn't work properly with the modified F-Keys).

That being said, the build quality of the keyboards and mouses is great.

T

How about supporting your hardware products on Windows 2003 Server ?  I still can't install the Intellitype 5.0 driver on Windows 2003 Server... even trying the 'compatability mode'...

Before I go any farther I really want to say that I am completely against PC's and laptops in particular. Sure, I use them, but they are far from the most natural input / workflow system possible. There have been inroads made to more natural systems, but they are likely 20 years away (sadly).

So, take everything I say with a grain of salt.

To be honest, I don't feel MS innovates at all in the hardware space (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not anti-MS, I love just about every software / gaming product you have).

Keyboards: Keyboards are useless. Anything which makes you phsyically press down on a key to accept input is bad enough. I could live with it if you were producing keyboards which actually allowed me to work better (flex keyboards are a step in the right direction, but none of the companies doing them have half a clue about how users work).

Mice: MS has some of the best mice in this space. Personally I'd like to see some of the products come out of R&D (tactile mice, projection mice, integrated mice).

Controllers: Sorry, by and large I'm an XBox gamer. But, again, I dont' really see much innovation in this space. Then again, not sure there is much room for innovation, besides moving beyond direct physical-force-input (see mice).

So, yeah, while I think the MS hardware is about the best there is out there, I'm not a fan of hardware in general. Give me a powerful [x] with a lens-projection interface and speech recognition any day.