Apple killing the 'save' button?

For me, the iPad2 release wasn't such a big story. In fact, I'm surprised that no one (here or out there) is really talking about the big changes coming in OSX Lion.

The details released by Apple pretty much confirmed the company is taking OSX down the IOS route: they've changed the scrolling direction (you flick up to scroll down the page), they're really pushing the full screen app stuff, the email application now looks a lot like the IOS one and, best of all, pause and resume.

Lion will also save stuff while you're working, just like IOS. Doesn't work for every app but I imagine Apple will be pushing developers down this road as fast as they can. 

Now, those of us who are IntelliJ Idea users are not going to really bat an eyelid over this, but what about everyone else? Is this a step too far?

 

Wait, you used to flick down to scroll down? That makes no sense at all. How does touch-based scrolling work on Windows?

 

As for the end of the Save button: remember when OneNote didn't have  a save button and there were hints of this becoming standard and everyone went mental? Now several years later Apple is doing it and suddenly it'll become the brilliant standard that Apple invented.

1 hour ago, CKurt wrote

@Bas: I think he means flick down to scroll down instead of 2 finger scrolling on the touchpad.

Er ... no, I don't think I do mean that.

You flick up to scroll DOWN the page. If you imaging you are reading a document wrapped around a toilet roll then this is how you would flick the roll to read stuff lower on the page.

The operation of the scroll bars has been reversed to bring MacOSX in line with IOS, which should tell you which operating system is wearing the pants in Cupertino. Now does anyone STILL not think that the desktop operating is evolving towards the device one?

Cult of Mac

Oooh. You can now resize Windows from any side.  

2 hours ago, Bas wrote

Wait, you used to flick down to scroll down? That makes no sense at all. How does touch-based scrolling work on Windows?

 

As for the end of the Save button: remember when OneNote didn't have  a save button and there were hints of this becoming standard and everyone went mental? Now several years later Apple is doing it and suddenly it'll become the brilliant standard that Apple invented.

As I said, IntelliJ users haven't had a working 'save' button for a decade or so. It works fine as long as you have a built-in versioning system that is robust enough to support it.

And Apple users aren't really calling it 'brilliant' yet. They have concerns:

Is HFS+ robust enough to support it.

How can I copy this file and make sure that folk are not getting revisions I don't want them to see.

The operation to create new versions and duplicates without versions seems a little bit iffy at the moment. 

Still, they have plenty of time to iron this stuff out, which is why they're giving it to developers rather than just throwing it at them and telling them to just deal with it.

Unless I'm getting this wrong, when you are at the top of a document, the scroll bar will be at the bottom of the window. You now have to move the scroll bar UP to scroll DOWN the page. Remember that fewer and fewer Mac users are using the scroll bar: they now just move their fingers up and down the pad, which is why the scroll bars only appear when you start scrolling.

Again, this is very similar to IntelliJ which got rid of the scroll bars in the last revision of their IDE.

 

Sounds wonderful.

Save was a flawed invention. When I write on a piece of paper I don't need to manually commit my changes. Plus you now have auto-save in most well written applications anyway. All this does is take a great concept and standardize it, and take a flawed concept and remove it (manual saves).

Sounds like Apple will save for you and keep a diff record so you can revert back to an older version (*yes, Windows has this). Which frankly sounds like how people would expect computers to work if they knew nothing about computers...

I think a lot of technical people forget how difficult computers are to use for everyone else. You can pick at Apple for making OS X more like iOS but all I read is "make OS X easier for everyone."

PS - I think you will see Windows move in this direction too.

PSs - Does anyone feel like technical people are scared of computers becoming too easy to use, and thus making them less special/important/valued? Or just resenting others having it easier than they had it.

Unless I'm getting this wrong, when you are at the top of a document, the scroll bar will be at the bottom of the window. You now have to move the scroll bar UP to scroll DOWN the page. Remember that fewer and fewer Mac users are using the scroll bar: they now just move their fingers up and down the pad, which is why the scroll bars only appear when you start scrolling.

 

Oh, right, right, it was as if you were flicking the scroll bar up and down. While that makes sense directionwise, it still doesn't make sense altogether. The whole point of touch is the fact that you're physically manipulating stuff. Why would you want to let users manipulate the scrollbar and not the document itself? This change makes a lot more sense.

 

Now does anyone STILL not think that the desktop operating is evolving towards the device one?

 

Hey, I still think that they're going to kill off OSX - and the entire iMac/Macbook line - in a few years time.

Bas wrote: Hey, I still think that they're going to kill off OSX - and the entire iMac/Macbook line - in a few years time.

That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

More likely to see iOS disappear and have OS X and iOS merge into a single product line. Maybe add a touch surface to Macs.

PSs - Does anyone feel like technical people are scared of computers becoming too easy to use, and thus making them less special/important/valued? Or just resenting others having it easier than they had it.

 

Actually, I've always admired Microsoft's (previous?) attitude of making stuff easier to understand for non-technical users. A lack of arcane commands and no reliance on a command line is what made Windows so succesful in my opinion. Which is why I think it's a shame that they appear to be straying from that philosophy in pursuit of other goals.

1 minute ago, ManipUni wrote

*snip*

That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

 

No, I don't.

 

Ubuntu has also mostly got rid of scrollbars in their 11.04 release.

Well being no fan of apple I will say they have done what microsoft has been trying to do for 15 years now, bill gates has been saying the tablet is the future of computing. apple has sold more Ipads in 2 years than microsoft has sold tablet in 15. even android tablets are fast aproaching the numbers windows on tablets have sold since 2000. infact the only place i seem to see windows tablets are in warehouses, hospitals and 7-11's and its among those workers there. And there usually 10 year old tablets.

bill gates has been saying the tablet is the future of computing. apple has sold more Ipads in 2 years than microsoft has sold tablet in 15

Bill Gates' vision of tablet computing involved a stylus, and every single attempt by Microsoft ("Windows for Pen Computing" (1993), "Windows Companion devices" and "Handheld/PC" (1995-2000), "Pocket PC" (2001-2005), "Windows Tablet PC Edition" (2003-2007)) were all designed around that input device. Microsoft also left the hardware design largely to the OEMs with no mandates on the quality of the hardware. In all a very unimaginative concept that made no giant strides in innovation, just evolutionary changes that just never worked.

Apple doesn't say the tablet is the future of computing, just another pillar in our day-to-day computing lives. It doesn't replace the desktop, merely accompany it.

15 minutes ago, W3bbo wrote

*snip*

Bill Gates' vision of tablet computing involved a stylus, and every single attempt by Microsoft ("Windows for Pen Computing" (1993), "Windows Companion devices" and "Handheld/PC" (1995-2000), "Pocket PC" (2001-2005), "Windows Tablet PC Edition" (2003-2007)) were all designed around that input device. Microsoft also left the hardware design largely to the OEMs with no mandates on the quality of the hardware. In all a very unimaginative concept that made no giant strides in innovation, just evolutionary changes that just never worked.

Apple doesn't say the tablet is the future of computing, just another pillar in our day-to-day computing lives. It doesn't replace the desktop, merely accompany it.

 

No, the problem was far far simpler than that. Microsoft simply believed that they could shrink a desktop OS to a tablet and people would want it. 

That mistake has pretty much cost them the market.

 

 I agree, you cant cram a desktop os into a small underpowerd tablet with a shoehorn and expect it to work, you have to create the os from the ground up to work with touch, and use fewer resourses. and they are doing it again by only putting win7 on tablets even though wp7 seems better suited to a tablet than it is for a phone. what are they smokin up in redmond?

3 minutes ago, CyberPunk​News wrote

what are they smokin up in redmond?

I have no idea but I'd be a happy man if I could get some.

 

12 minutes ago, CyberPunk​News wrote

 I agree, you cant cram a desktop os into a small underpowerd tablet with a shoehorn and expect it to work,

I'm using one right now with Windows 7 on it. Works awesome, I use it every day. Even thinking of putting Civ V on it.

3 hours ago, Harlequin wrote

*snip*

I'm using one right now with Windows 7 on it. Works awesome, I use it every day. Even thinking of putting Civ V on it.

Enjoy your designed-for-touch UI, 10 hour battery life, 8.5mm thick body, and bleeding-edge performance much?