Even _more_ exciting innovations from Microsoft!

http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/11/en-us/downloads#express

Looks almost as if C# Express, C++ Express and VB.NET Express are yanked in favour to promote Metro.

No more free dev tools for the desktop pleb, huh?

@wastingtimewithforums: I thought they were just combining all of the expresses into one product.

Microsoft is probably assuming that anybody building desktop applications is doing so because of a paid job which provides the full VS product. The Express editions were probably intended to attract the the hobbyist developer, and forcing them to sell through the Windows Store is a way to monetize the investment in developing these tools. Sounds like a "business decision" to me.

4 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

@wastingtimewithforums: I thought they were just combining all of the expresses into one product.

And which product on that site would that be?

I vaguely remember a discussion about this already. I don't think this is any revelation about the new Express products.

3 minutes ago, cbae wrote

Microsoft is probably assuming that anybody building desktop applications is doing so because of a paid job which provides the full VS product.

Sure, no one would even think about targeting Vista and 7, because Win 8 will reach 90% marketshare within a week.

3 minutes ago, cbae wrote

Sounds like a "business decision" to me.

Yeah, a mad one. Someone ate too much British beef in the mid 90s at Microsoft. Frankly, I've never seen a company trying to annoy its established userbase with so much zeal as Microsoft is doing it with Windows 8, Metro and all that is associated with it.

8 minutes ago, cbae wrote

I vaguely remember a discussion about this already. I don't think this is any revelation about the new Express products.

Doesn't sound encouraging:

http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/11/en-us/products/express

"Additional Visual Studio Express Products

To develop for Windows Phone, or to create desktop applications with Visual C++, Visual C#, or Visual Basic, download a Visual Studio 2010 Express product."

@wastingtimewithforums:We already learned that Metro uses a gimped version XAML. So what tooling feature are you missing out on by not being able to use VS 11 Express? Most the improvements to Silverlight and WPF are going to be in .NET 4.5, and you can install that separately from VS.

3 minutes ago, cbae wrote

Most the improvements to Silverlight and WPF are going to be in .NET 4.5, and you can install that separately from VS.

As far as I know the 2010 Express versions can't use .NET 4.5. I haven't looked into it though.

Do they work?

@wastingtimewithforums: if the whole point is using .NET 4.5, did you consider downloading any of the other VS11 Beta SKU?

Big deal. MonoDevelop is still free, and it doesn't gimp random useful features like integrated unit testing.

2 hours ago, Bass wrote

Big deal. MonoDevelop is still free, and it doesn't gimp random useful features like integrated unit testing.

And how did they "gimp" integrated unit testing? Or are you forking the thread and harping on the lack of an integrated test runner in express SKUs? That's not anything new, and so hardly worth bringing up in a thread about VS11.

@wkempf:

I'm just saying it's not a big deal if Microsoft "yanks" IDE features because there are other free ones available like MonoDevelop that don't do this.

4 hours ago, wastingtimewithforums wrote

*snip*

Sure, no one would even think about targeting Vista and 7, because Win 8 will reach 90% marketshare within a week.

The Express products aren't aimed at people who care about marketshare, they're aimed at people who want relatively simple tools that allow them to learn some coding. Looking to make serious money as a developer? Well that's what the full versions of Visual Studio are for.

I can say why an Express Edition for Native C++ Development for Desktop Apps with C++-Compiler V11 would be important. VC++ Express 2010 will not support the new C++ 11 standards and so you can't profit from the new additions of them with VC++ Express 2010.  That is one reason, why a VC++ Express 11 would be important.

But I hope that they WILL release a Visual Studio Express 11 C++ Edition. I think (or hope) they've only released the beta of the NEW Express Product for testing Metro-Style development. For testing Desktop development you can download the Visual Studio 11 Beta versions until they will be released officially. I hope MS will release the VS Express 11 when Visual Studio 11 is not longer beta and free downloadable.

Just my 2 cents. 

 Edit: Or I hope they will release an update for the C++ 2010 Express Edition for implementing new standards and runtime 110.