File management? Shove it!

4 minutes ago, DeathByVisualStudio wrote

*snip*

So there are at least two people in the world who are tech savvy and are too stupid to have "discovered" this feature. IMO the average Joe isn't either and will be thrown under the bus if tags aren't implemented consistently & predictably (so you don't have to "discover" how they work for each app). As it stands right now it means education and additional costs.

Yes. But then I'm not saying they shouldn't be implemented consistently and predictably, so I'm not sure what the point you're making is. Also, I wasn't talking about "right now", I was talking about a future in which the file system is abstracted away from users. Which is obviously not right now.

a moment ago, PaoloM wrote

But when does a regular user want to "manage arbitrary files"?

As soon as they need 2 or more files that are edited/displayed by 2 or more different programs (Say a Word document and an Excel spreadsheet).

20 minutes ago, DeathByVisualStudio wrote

*snip*

It's not the tool it's the varied implementations. Having a consistent syntax and visual representation(s) would reduce the need for education and the associated costs.

What is consistent between a photo and a song? Very little. Even their organization is very different...

17 minutes ago, DCMonkey wrote

*snip*

As soon as they need 2 or more files that are edited/displayed by 2 or more different programs (Say a Word document and an Excel spreadsheet).

Regular users start Excel, go to File/Open and select a file from their Open dialog (that's already prefiltered for Excel documents and pointed to their documents folder).

Really, file/folder organization is the realm of power users.

22 minutes ago, DCMonkey wrote

*snip*

As soon as they need 2 or more files that are edited/displayed by 2 or more different programs (Say a Word document and an Excel spreadsheet).

 

Not really, a Word document and an Excel spreadsheet have very similar metadata requirements. Look at how the WP7 handles them. One interface is the launching pad for both document types.

How do you group multiple files/documents of different types that are associated with one project, class, whatever? That's mostly what I still directly use the filesystem for ...

23 minutes ago, Bas wrote

*snip*

Yes. But then I'm not saying they shouldn't be implemented consistently and predictably, so I'm not sure what the point you're making is. Also, I wasn't talking about "right now", I was talking about a future in which the file system is abstracted away from users. Which is obviously not right now.

I'm guess I'm trying respond with my points as they applies to multiple people here. Sorry if that wasn't more clear. I'd agree with everything you just said but the implementation needs to be solid and consistent whenever that day comes.

3 minutes ago, PaoloM wrote

*snip*

What is consistent between a photo and a song? Very little. Even their organization is very different...

I didn't say they were. The tools (i.e. varied methods tags are supported) need to be consistent and predictable especially between apps of a particular object type. You wouldn't want tagging implemented differently between photo apps would you?

2 minutes ago, DeathByVisualStudio wrote

*snip*

I'm guess I'm trying respond with my points as they applies to multiple people here.

Ah, gotcha. Sorry if that sounded cross.

Sounds like a general file manager, just one that uses tags instead of strict hierarchy?

I do have to admit these days I use OneNote for a lot of stuff I used to do in the filesystem ...

17 hours ago, PaoloM wrote

*snip*

Regular users start Excel, go to File/Open and select a file from their Open dialog (that's already prefiltered for Excel documents and pointed to their documents folder).

Really, file/folder organization is the realm of power users.

Really? Everyone I know navigates to the file in Explorer and double-clicks it.

14 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

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Really? Everyone I know navigates to the file in Explorer and double-clicks it.

I use the Recent section in jumplists or the recently opened section within the application itself.

15 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

*snip*

Really? Everyone I know navigates to the file in Explorer and double-clicks it.

Then you only know power (or experienced) users. Hey, everyone I know is a wiz at organization, but sometimes I provide "tech support" for friends of my wife and what I see are completely flat My Documents folders and the only structures in Photos and Music are provided by import tools like WLPG or iTunes or WMP burning CDs.

Normal users, in general, do not want to think about post-inception tasks (like manual tagging, renaming or shuffling across folders), they just want to get on with their lives.

(disclosure: I'm a compulsive tagger and organizer, bordering on some medical condition )

31 minutes ago, PaoloM wrote

*snip*

Then you only know power (or experienced) users. Hey, everyone I know is a wiz at organization, but sometimes I provide "tech support" for friends of my wife and what I see are completely flat My Documents folders and the only structures in Photos and Music are provided by import tools like WLPG or iTunes or WMP burning CDs.

Normal users, in general, do not want to think about post-inception tasks (like manual tagging, renaming or shuffling across folders), they just want to get on with their lives.

(disclosure: I'm a compulsive tagger and organizer, bordering on some medical condition )

I don't think there's anyone in tech that doesn't provide support for friends an family to some degree or another. You certainly don't comer the market on experience with the less then advanced user. My experience has been similar to both spivonious and MasterPie. Jumplists & app MRU lists seem to be the most common means for opening a document that I see and especially true for those with Windows 7.

19 hours ago, contextfree` wrote

Sounds like a general file manager, just one that uses tags instead of strict hierarchy?

I do have to admit these days I use OneNote for a lot of stuff I used to do in the filesystem ...

OneNote FTW.  (or does anyone still say that anymore?)