Has anyone here used DevExpress XAF? Looking for Opinions.

@ChrisTypeR: yes I could have, and the license is not the problem, I have to continue to develop it anyway, so I need a license.

The problem with these types of frameworks for me is, that they don't make themselves part of the solution, but rather reference themselves in the GAC. So when a developer checks in it's source code, they do not check in the dll's.

I would much rather see a NuGet-like approach, where you can install from a source, it becomes part of the solution and then provide somekind of license file to validate the install.

And the version label is a bit confusing for me as a first time user.

@sysrpl: you are referring to this problem isn't it? You should consider providing the problematic code if you want to know what's the problem. As it stands now the only advise that would be relevant is to go from 32-bit to 64-bit on the server. 

I'm using XAF, much to my pleasure, and though it can be improved I now have a tool that makes it possible to concentrate on what matters instead of wasting my time on creating the functionality I get from using 3rd party products.

But more important: my users (and managers/customers) appreciate the speed with which the programs get created and the consistent quality. Needless to say I do not experience the problem(s) you describe even though some of my databases are bigger than what you describe in the original call.

regards

Martin

I use XAF for several years and have no other product in my portfolio with a similarly good ROI. As a small business i can compete against Dynamics NAV or SAP BbyD in my target markets.

I see a lot of new accounts and single post niners in this thread.

I kinda get a spammy feeling about this.

@Maddus Mattus: Those points re. version control and build version numbering are interesting and valid - why not post as questions / suggestions on DX and see if anything can be done about it. 

The reason that people are jumping on to this thread is because a number of very critical statements have been made which seem unfounded and which do not tally with the experience of people using the product on a daily basis.

Certainly some of the posts on here would put someone off investigating DX/XAF. 

 

 

@ChrisTypeR: seems like the DX people are in this thread, so no need to make a new discussion there.

And I don't get the feeling that they are very open to new ways of doing things, as I get replies to my problems like; "problem exists between keyboard and chair" instead of "thank you for your feedback, here is a solution to your problem and we will put a new feature request in, maybe we make it maybe we wont".

Maddus Mattus wrote

...
I see a lot of new accounts and single post niners in this thread.

I kinda get a spammy feeling about this.
...

@ChrisTypeR: seems like the DX people are in this thread, so no need to make a new discussion there.
...

@Maddus Mattus: Believe your not, I am the only one who works for DevExpress here. The rest comments were posted by real and loyal XAF customers by the reasons Chris already described above. Another reason of appearing new posts is that I put a link to this thread  in the XAF group in social networks, encouraging people to share their real life experiences.

Maddus Mattus wrote

And I don't get the feeling that they are very open to new ways of doing things, as I get replies to my problems like; "problem exists between keyboard and chair" instead of "thank you for your feedback, here is a solution to your problem and we will put a new feature request in, maybe we make it maybe we wont".

If you received such replies from DevExpress Support, would you please email me at dennis@devexpress.com and provide links to respective support tickets? I will be glad to review them.

I can assure you that we are always eager to provide a true solution, or, if it does not exist, put some workaround together with a feature request if it makes sense and other people would benefit from it.

@DennisGaravsky: the comment was in the context of this thread. I've never had any contact with the support department.

I think it's very noble that you take the time to answer questions here.

@DennisGaravsky: XPO seemed like a lot of work to learn a new framework that wasn't as powerful as EF or nHibernate. It was a year or so ago, so I'm sure it's improved by now.

I do like the ASP.NET controls. Very easy to use and fast.

Another reason of appearing new posts is that I put a link to this thread  in the XAF group in social networks, encouraging people to share their real life experiences.

Real life experiences include mine.

A Negative Review.

@sysrpl,

@Maddus

I use XAF for internal projects at the company where I work, and to be honest from my experience I find that as a framework, it covers 95+% of typical business scenarios with ease straight out of the box, - we use it as the main MIS system driving the business with c100 users across multiple applications both Win & Web

I'd agree, though, like any framework, the tradeoff is twofold - 1) learning curve which can be steep & 2) maintenance/upgrade of older versions as the framework itself evolves.

Both these, though, to my mind are endemic in any piece of software that needs to evolve, and come down to the tradeoff between learning the framework vs the time to roll your own solution, but personally I know given the time deadlines in most projects, I couldn't produce a solution that offers the same flexibility to end users as XAF in the same timeframe

I've been a XAF customer/consumer for the past 4+ years, and I'd be the first to admit that at the outset the learning curve was quite steep, and hindered by documentation that could have been better, but in the intervening releases this is something which has only improved, and whenever I couldn't fathom something, I can't fault, DevExpress support for both timely and informative responses.

Don't get me wrong - this is not meant to be a sycophantic rant about XAF as the ultimate tool you'll ever need, as I'm well aware of it's shortcomings, but with a little knowledge of the framework you can work through (around?) most of these for most line of business apps which I work on

 

Maddus Mattus wrote

@DennisGaravsky: the comment was in the context of this thread. I've never had any contact with the support department.

OK, thank you for the clarification. Assuming that you got such an impression after my first reply to you (about renewing the license to just obtain an old product version), I should say that I never intended to sound this way ("problem exists between keyboard and chair") and I am more than happy to help you with DevExpress-related problems, and I already provided possible solutions in this thread. I may understand that a solution with putting all required third-party assemblies into a folder and storing it in VCS may not meet your needs, but we do not have another option for now, I am afraid. I remember that eXpand Framework (a set of open source XAF modules) had an option to redistribute their modules via NuGet, but it is not easily possible for rich design-time features XAF provides (they require explicit registration in Visual Studio, assemblies in GAC, etc.).

16 hours ago, JohnAskew wrote

Another reason of appearing new posts is that I put a link to this thread  in the XAF group in social networks, encouraging people to share their real life experiences.

Real life experiences include mine.

A Negative Review.

John, thank you for your time to post here. As I mentioned in my first reply to you, I would be more than happy to learn more about your experience with XAF, and not just it's bad or not.

spivonious wrote

@DennisGaravsky: XPO seemed like a lot of work to learn a new framework that wasn't as powerful as EF or nHibernate. It was a year or so ago, so I'm sure it's improved by now.

I do like the ASP.NET controls. Very easy to use and fast.

Thank you for your answer, I highly appreciate it. It would be better if you could remember the missing features in XPO as compared to other ORMs. And you are right, there were a lot of improvements to XPO for the last year or so:

http://www.devexpress.com/Products/NET/ORM/index.xml?tab=whatsnew

3 hours ago, DennisGaravsky wrote

*snip*
John, thank you for your time to post here. As I mentioned in my first reply to you, I would be more than happy to learn more about your experience with XAF, and not just it's bad or not.

You should have plenty of fodder for improving your offerings from those who care to buy them.

This is creepy.

@JohnAskew: You WILL use this product...

<performingJediMindTrick />

JohnAskew wrote

*snip*

You should have plenty of fodder for improving your offerings from those who care to buy them.

This is creepy.

Sure, any software can be improved. I just wanted to know what you specifically did not like in XAF.