"Steve Ballmer had a dilemma. He had two groups at Microsoft pursuing competing visions for tablet computers.

One group, led by Xbox godfather J Allard, was pushing for a sleek, two-screen tablet called the Courier that users controlled with their finger or a pen. But it had a problem: It was running a modified version of Windows.

That ran headlong into the vision of tablet computing laid out by Steven Sinofsky ...."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20128013-75/the-inside-story-of-how-microsoft-killed-its-courier-tablet/

It does occur to me that potentially the Courier could still be pulled off: get an OEM or two to produce the dual screen hardware (didn't one OEM produce a laptop similar to this last year?), refactor the Courier software experience to Windows 8 and you'd have a pretty good 'premium product' built on top of Windows RT. I'd buy one... I would imagine that the battery life and weight of a dual screen laptop like that would suck though.

Wouldn't be suprised if Microsoft or a.n.other company take some of the courier ideas and principles and produce something nifty for Windows 8 tablets with it, even if it's initially for single screen tablets. Merge some of the principles with a future version of One Note for windows tablets and you could have something neat, useful and more importantly, something that the iPad doesn't do very well - content creation...

If not - Microsoft should release the software as an open source developer challenge - get some interest around the community in taking it and getting WinRT developers to do something cool with it - never going to happen though....

8 minutes ago, OrigamiCar wrote

Very interesting reading.

It does occur to me that potentially the Courier could still be pulled off: get an OEM or two to produce the dual screen hardware (didn't one OEM produce a laptop similar to this last year?), refactor the Courier software experience to Windows 8 and you'd have a pretty good 'premium product' built on top of Windows RT. I'd buy one... I would imagine that the battery life and weight of a dual screen laptop like that would suck though.

Wouldn't be suprised if Microsoft or a.n.other company take some of the courier ideas and principles and produce something nifty for Windows 8 tablets with it, even if it's initially for single screen tablets.

If not - Microsoft should release the software as an open source developer challenge - get some interest around the community in taking it and getting WinRT developers to do something cool with it - never going to happen though....

Courier wouldn't work well with the in-box Immersive UI you see in Windows 8. What they would need to do is add features to Windows 8 which would allow it to function differently with two or more screens --- whether it be on a dual screen device like the Courier, or with two full desktop screens. "Courier mode."

You can now drag and drop from the left side of the screen into OneNote.

What would you have to add to this to get Courier-like application (genuine ignorance on my part, I never followed Courier in detail).?

Herbie

12 minutes ago, PaoloM wrote

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clibe/id463087376?ls=1&mt=8

Looks interesting - although I wouldn't even like to attempt to use something like that on a platform that doesn't have an active digitizer (wacom pen with pressure sensitivity) and palm rejection.
One of the USP's of Windows 8 tablet platform vs. iPad is that they can have proper pen input as well as finger touch - like current tablet PC's, but hopefully on a better platform. Hoping that the OEM's don't just try to rip off iPads and have them finger only, but rather think about the additional benefits Windows 8 could bring...

...although looking at how a lot of the OEM's usually screw it up, I'm not holding my breath!

12 minutes ago, Dr Herbie wrote

Windows 8, open OneNote and pin it to the side of the screen.

You can now drag and drop from the left side of the screen into OneNote.

What would you have to add to this to get Courier-like application (genuine ignorance on my part, I never followed Courier in detail).?

Herbie

First, you'd need to add more of a book-like visual metaphor to OneNote. Then you'd have to add a "pocket" that sits between the two panes and allows you to change what's displayed on the two panes without losing the content stored in the pocket.

The only problem is that Metro is moving away from using a UI with graphical metaphors in favor of one that's more content-focused UI and devoid of graphical metaphors.

This interface is about as anti-Metro as you can get.

The short version was: Internal and external competition is healthy. It results in better products. That is why Apple is so successful. The iPhone competes with the iPod, and the iPad competes with them both. The iPad also competes with a Macbook. The Macbook competes with the iMac, and Apple TV competes with everything I just listed. 

Microsoft's lack of internal competition results in worse products brought to market and lazy staff. 

Why did Bill Gates get involved after the fact? Should leadership get involved before the project even starts?

Pretty much anything written in .NET and Java can be copied easily by a competitor, which is why the software world is fraught with failed projects.

21 minutes ago, vesuvius wrote

@Bass: This is quite a small number, especially when you consider that Microsoft usually triage a project, with x amount working on release A, and y amount working on release B., which is how they could get to Silverlight 5 in 2 years. If Microsoft invest in a project that used 20 people, any small to medium enterprise can come along and compete. Most software now is about amassing a huge amount of functionality that it becomes too costly for your competitor to create a rival product, they have to think big.

Pretty much anything written in .NET and Java can be copied easily by a competitor, which is why the software world is fraught with failed projects.

 

And this is the one reason that Apple shines publicly.  They are very good at waiting until a few other companies flounder over a technology and work out the bugs.  Then they release the same product (minus the worked out bugs) and trumpet their innovation.  They get all the accolades withouth having to invest and eat any of the R&D losses.

55 minutes ago, Bass wrote

Why did Bill Gates get involved after the fact? Should leadership get involved before the project even starts?

Simple: Balmer is a salesman oh and also a coward with a capitol P. That's why he should be fired. He has no vision.

Too bad about Allard & Bach. That was talent Microsoft could ill afford to loose.

So once again instead of trying to be innovative they cower to Windows & Office.

Most of the time I use my W8 tablet from Build as my PC companion -- rarely using it to do any real work. Allard had it right. The shame of it is that W8 ARM won't have the desktop so it won't be able to do much more that Allard's Courier anyway (and a lot less than Courier in many respects). Funny how they didn't make that connection. They suggest Courier's goodies will be used elsewhere but I suspect they have hit the shredder just like Allard's innovative studios that closed. IMO, there's just too many politics in Microsoft; the "not inverted here" syndrome runs strong (WinDiv vs. DevDiv anyone?).

The comparisons to the Zune aren't accurate. The Zune was late to market and was an also-ran product offering little new functionality (squirting was it if I recall). Courier was a new tablet metaphor unlike anything else on the market.

Once again Microsoft game plan: come late to the market with an also-ran product.

40 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

As much as I would have loved to see the Courier come to market, I think MS will be better in the long run staying out of the hardware game. OEMs will make Courier-esque dual-screen tablets that run Windows 8.

Where's the support in Win8 for Courier-style dual-screens?

44 minutes ago, W3bbo wrote

*snip*

Where's the support in Win8 for Courier-style dual-screens?

Windows 8 supports dual displays (and more). Making the displays Courier-esque is up to the device makers.

4 hours ago, Bas wrote

What a depressing story.

Quite.

44 minutes ago, cbae wrote

*snip*

Windows 8 supports dual displays (and more). Making the displays Courier-esque is up to the device makers.

Which they will be unlikely to do because they will not want to make something that would cost significantly more than the competition. The Windows OEMs aren't the most innovative bunch, let's face it.

Can't help but think Gates was probably spot on the money by putting an end to it somehow. Wheter or not Sinofsky's attempt with Windows 8 will do better is a whole other question of course.

4 hours ago, ManipUni wrote

Good job losing my posts C9. Forget it then...   

The short version was: Internal and external competition is healthy. It results in better products. That is why Apple is so successful. The iPhone competes with the iPod, and the iPad competes with them both. The iPad also competes with a Macbook. The Macbook competes with the iMac, and Apple TV competes with everything I just listed. 

Microsoft's lack of internal competition results in worse products brought to market and lazy staff. 

Mmm. Dunno. Apple does not have that much internal competition. They have a single unified strategy that everyone works to, and unlike Microsoft they're perfectly happy to throw stuff away and do start again. 

That stuff about the iPod competing with the iPhone etc. is partially true though (since it's likely that many people who bought an iPad may have decided not to buy a Macbook), but they always knew there would be canibalization across some of the lines, but that was decision that the company took as a whole (by which I mean, Jobs took the decision for the company as a whole) and not as a result of internal competition. Interesting when reading this stuff about the Courier because it seems that MS is scared of doing anything that would risk the Windows hegemony. Yes, I guess you could call that a unified strategy too.

11 minutes ago, AndyC wrote

The problem with Courier is that, cool as it appeared in video, it really was ultimately just a souped up PDA (but presumably without much battery life). 

You mean like…an iPad?

14 minutes ago, AndyC wrote

Can't help but think Gates was probably spot on the money by putting an end to it somehow. Wheter or not Sinofsky's attempt with Windows 8 will do better is a whole other question of course.

Define "do better" - I'd like people to stop claiming certain releases of Windows are a "success" simply because of high sales - I'll need them to show that they weren't sales Microsoft would have gotten anyway simply by virtue of Microsoft's latest OS being the default OS for the majority of computers being sold.

6 hours ago, PaoloM wrote

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clibe/id463087376?ls=1&mt=8

Mmm. Now if only I could fold an iPad without using a Black and Decker workbench and a mallet.

16 minutes ago, Ray7 wrote

*snip*

You mean like…an iPad?

But the iPad isn't (and never was) sold as a PDA type device. Probably because it'd be awful at it. It was more a web-browser which also runs your iPhone apps and games. And you can read email on it!

11 minutes ago, W3bbo wrote

*snip*

Define "do better" - I'd like people to stop claiming certain releases of Windows are a "success" simply because of high sales

Sales are the only thing that matters. When you look at them you can see Vista did poorly, wheras Windows 7 did well. Absolutely no other metric means anything at all, it's about selling product, not some grand higher purpose or something.

3 hours ago, Ray7 wrote

*snip*

Which they will be unlikely to do because they will not want to make something that would cost significantly more than the competition. The Windows OEMs aren't the most innovative bunch, let's face it.

Some are more innovative than others.

After re-watching that Courier video, I realize that there's more to Courier than just dual displays. If what is displayed on the two panels are individual windows from two separate application processes, then these windows need to be able so support a drag drop-type operation using a flick gesture. Somehow, I don't think the sand-boxed nature of Metro-style applications would lend itself for this type of operation. If what was displayed on both panes were own by the same process, then it still wouldn't be possible since Metro-style applications have to live full-screen in one window.

The conclusion is that Metro-style apps cannot support Courier-like functionality even if OEMs like Toshiba did produce more Libretto-type devices for Windows 8.

8 hours ago, AndyC wrote

*snip*

But the iPad isn't (and never was) sold as a PDA type device. Probably because it'd be awful at it. It was more a web-browser which also runs your iPhone apps and games. And you can read email on it!

Not sure what the iPad is if it's not a PDA-type device. Folk sit on trains arranging appointments, sending emails, surfing the web and playing games. That's about as personally digital as you can get. 

Your comment about the Courier was exactly what people said about the iPad when Apple was telling us how magical it would be. 

Yes, the lack of an email client (what?) was a really bad idea, but I doubt they would have stuck to that. At one point, Apple thought that they wouldn't allow third-parties to write apps for the iPhone. They changed their mind and the rest is history.

6 hours ago, cbae wrote

*snip*

Some are more innovative than others.

But most, aren't.

What I try to remember about the courier is that we only ever saw video demos. There would have been no guarantee that it would have worked anywhere near as well, especially when it relied so heavily on handwriting recognition.

I don't complain about it because I rarely use email, a couple of emails a year from non microsoft sources is about it.

I did get an email from my brother the other day saying that there was a problem with his computer. I emailed a suggestion that he should reboot the computer. I went downstairs later to check and see if that had fixed the problem.

And the major fail is "designed for creations" when most windows home user are "consumers". They They are major status update publishers,but, they consume most of the time, including the important gaming.

Also I think it is better go with another ms research. The back input. Instead of dule screen, simply using back input for creation, like back keyboard, back game controller, and even extra back gestures. Low power, same thin design, cheaper, single less confusing screen, single large screen.

I tried it in Microsoft Stores. Honestly, nah. Cool to show off, but, compare to a real notebook, nah. We ended up buying the 700USD Toshiba notebook, best bang for the buck in the entire store.

1 day ago, Ray7 wrote

*snip*

Mmm. Now if only I could fold an iPad without using a Black and Decker workbench and a mallet.

Buy two and a roll of sellotape and hey presto - a folding super tablet thing.

19 minutes ago, evildictait​or wrote

*snip*

Buy two and a roll of sellotape and hey presto - a folding super tablet thing.

I've never heard of Sellotape. In the US, we prefer duct tape for all sorts of applications. 

14 hours ago, cbae wrote

*snip*

I've never heard of Sellotape. In the US, we prefer duct tape for all sorts of applications. 

Except ducts...http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/myths/duct_tape.html