Now I don't follow conferences that close, but I know some are themed (ie "Web").  Is Build a "Web" conference?

Or is WPF just that dead to new feature development that there are no courses in that 4 day conference that touch on it enough to even warrant adding a tag for it?

Maybe I should not be surprised after so many things have been killed off.  I know Microsoft can be brutal to "out of favor" stuff.

Maybe there is nothing new in WPF so there is nothing more to train on?

35 minutes ago, Vaccano wrote

I know that the current favored UI development API is Win RT (or Modern Applications ...) and that WPF (and Silverlight) are "out of favor".  But I was a bit surprised to note "WPF" is not an option in the search tags for the Build Conference.

Now I don't follow conferences that close, but I know some are themed (ie "Web").  Is Build a "Web" conference?

How do you go from talking about Win RT to assuming Build is a "Web" conference? Build is about developing using Microsoft technologies. That includes desktop. However, there's not anything new in WPF, and with all of the new stuff released elsewhere, there's just no reason to focus on it now. That doesn't mean it's "dead", though.

By the way, when I refer to the Dead or Live status of WPF I am referring to the expansion and improvement of the product.  Not its useability. 

WinForms is still very useful, but it will not be improved anymore.  Hence I am calling it Dead.

It is looking like WPF is less sleeping and has actually died. (Or is really breathing shallow

As for the conference question, I was not assuming.  I was wondering.  I was guessing that may be a reason that it did not contain any WPF related topics.  It looks like that is not the case. 

8 hours ago, Richard.Hein wrote

There is one session on WPF - http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/2-002 ... so it's not completely abandoned, however, I do think F# got left out in the cold.  Shame.  No functional programming related sessions at all. 

Erik Meijer want it too, apparently https://twitter.com/headinthebox/status/263339389353095170

If it was a training exercise then sessions would be based around technologies that matter to most working developers e.g. SQL Server, ASP.NET, etc. instead of the shiny new stuff MS wants developers to use.

14 hours ago, Vaccano wrote

So WPF is not dead, it is just sleeping?

By the way, when I refer to the Dead or Live status of WPF I am referring to the expansion and improvement of the product.  Not its useability. 

WinForms is still very useful, but it will not be improved anymore.  Hence I am calling it Dead.

It is looking like WPF is less sleeping and has actually died. (Or is really breathing shallow

As for the conference question, I was not assuming.  I was wondering.  I was guessing that may be a reason that it did not contain any WPF related topics.  It looks like that is not the case. 

WPF was updated with .NET 4.5, so by your criteria it's not "dead". Don't expect to see much focus there, though, or on any other desktop related technology, at least for the near future.

Herbie

The bigger question is what plans Microsoft has with the Desktop. They've said it won't go away; well, okay, but the question is where its going.

14 hours ago, brian.​shapiro wrote

As long as the Desktop exists, some version of WPF will, but you'll see some convergence between WinRT and WPF in the future, so it may not be called "WPF" anymore.

The bigger question is what plans Microsoft has with the Desktop. They've said it won't go away; well, okay, but the question is where its going.

I think the plans for the desktop will be based primarily on the acceptance (or lack thereof) of the Windows 8 Store Apps and the "New Windows" environment. The desktop story makes a nice "Plan B".

12 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

*snip*

I think the plans for the desktop will be based primarily on the acceptance (or lack thereof) of the Windows 8 Store Apps and the "New Windows" environment. The desktop story makes a nice "Plan B".

What makes you believe that? When Microsoft refers to Desktop apps as "legacy apps" and metro apps as "modern apps" it doesn't help, I know. But Sinofsky has said he understands the importance of a dedicated mouse+keyboard interface for office, design, and development apps.

And I couldn't imagine Visual Studio running under the current version of Metro. So I think they're waiting until Metro is seriously improved years down the line to remove the Desktop, or they're serious about the Desktop being permanent and are just postponing major updates on it to get the buzz around Metro.

If the Desktop is permanent, I imagine Desktop apps will have some type of appx model and ClickOnce installation, and will use the WinRT API, so Desktop apps will be windowed Metro apps, and the nomenclature "modern" vs "legacy" is correct in either case.

As for VS and other content creation apps I agree with you but also suspect if the Windows 8 Store Apps environment takes off Sinofsky will continue to push Microsoft, third parties, and other developers to "re-imagine" their applications in Windows 8 Store Apps form.

IMO, The desktop and its legacy will always be around much like winforms and now WPF/SL. I doubt we'll see a huge investment in it unless Windows 8 Store Apps fail. Things are different at Microsoft now. It's all about Sinofsky's singular vision and right now he holds all of the cards.

Just remember Microsoft isn't here to dictate what language you write in, APIs you use, or platforms you target; that's up to you to decide...

So it's all there, as it should be.

The 'singular vision' is a Metro experience across all devices, nothing more.

1 minute ago, MasterPie wrote

As long as there exists work that requires sitting down at a computer and investing oneself in highly complicated tasks, the desktop will exist. If technology has evolved so much (e.g. metro took over) that those complicated tasks can be broken up across multiple non-PC [metro-ized] devices, then why would it matter if the desktop still existed then?

Give me a Metro development environment, then -- the desktop is Development Central.

If you argue a Metro device can remote to a VM running VS, then I'd say that VM is desktop... no where to go.

9 minutes ago, JohnAskew wrote

*snip*

Give me a Metro development environment, then -- the desktop is Development Central.

Ultimately, you're typing into a text editor, compiling, and running stuff. VS might be the best IDE right now, but who says that things have to be that way? The desktop is only an interpretation of the desired workflow, and its existence is driven by habit. An alternative interpretation might work just as well, if not better.

If you argue a Metro device can remote to a VM running VS, then I'd say that VM is desktop... no where to go.

No..I'm imagining a future in which VS-future doesn't look like VS-today. Maybe it's decoupled across devices or simply across mini apps and tiles in Windows. Who knows? No one knows if it's good or bad, so I'm not sure if it makes sense to fear it, except for maybe the learning curve that comes with the transition.

10 minutes ago, MasterPie wrote

*snip*

No..I'm imagining a future in which VS-future doesn't look like VS-today. Maybe it's decoupled across devices or simply across mini apps and tiles in Windows. Who knows? No one knows if it's good or bad, so I'm not sure if it makes sense to fear it, except for maybe the learning curve that comes with the transition.

When it comes down to the typing aspect the only substitute I can think of is voice recognition. While it's come a long way for regular language I don't think it works very well with the programming languages and paradigms we have to work with today. Much of that would have to be abstracted away like in TouchDevelop or Kodu -- both of which are very limited relative to what you can do with VS today.

That said I'd love to design and develop software using combinations of voice and gesture but we're a long way off.

In the end just because Microsoft needs the desktop around for guys like us it doesn't mean that much of the rest of the world can't shift over to the Windows 8 Store App environment. That will leave Microsoft with little incentive to do much with the desktop. It all comes down to what's going to generate revenue...

51 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

*snip*

In the end just because Microsoft needs the desktop around for guys like us it doesn't mean that much of the rest of the world can't shift over to the Windows 8 Store App environment. That will leave Microsoft with little incentive to do much with the desktop. It all comes down to what's going to generate revenue...

Yup.

But, also the "guys like us" do exist within Microsoft developing the tools and the software to support that vision. For this very fact, I don't see the desktop fading away soon.

Regardless, if you assume that metro supported dev environments (that possibly transcend device boundaries) are impossible to use for serious development purposes, then dev teams for Windows, etc.. probably would lean towards keeping the desktop environment as much as possible. On the other hand, if you allow for metro-like dev tools to actually work well for dev purposes, then it shouldn't really be an issue if the desktop stayed or didn't.