@DeathByVisualStudio: Or both environments could be accepted and thrive side by side. Or both of them could ultimately be rejected and languish, while non-Windows platforms thrive. There's no 1:1 inverse relationship between the desktop and the new environment.
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DeathByVisualStudio
If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
@contextfree`: I'm not saying there is a 1:1 inverse relationship. If Microsoft will continue to invest in both environments that's great. I'm just suggesting at this juncture they have no such plans and if the Windows 8 Store App environment is successful that, again IMO, they will not continue to invest in the desktop. It doesn't have to be that way but with their singular vision in play right now I believe it is.
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JohnAskew
9 girl in pink sweater
@DeathByVisualStudio: Nothing is compelling MS to make final decisions that cannot be undone.
So it's all there, as it should be.
The 'singular vision' is a Metro experience across all devices, nothing more.
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MasterPie
var genesis = 2^x
As long as there exists work that requires sitting down at a computer and investing oneself in highly complicated tasks, the desktop will exist. If technology has evolved so much (e.g. metro took over) that those complicated tasks can be broken up across multiple non-PC [metro-ized] devices, then why would it matter if the desktop still existed then?
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JohnAskew
9 girl in pink sweater
1 minute ago, MasterPie wrote
As long as there exists work that requires sitting down at a computer and investing oneself in highly complicated tasks, the desktop will exist. If technology has evolved so much (e.g. metro took over) that those complicated tasks can be broken up across multiple non-PC [metro-ized] devices, then why would it matter if the desktop still existed then?
Give me a Metro development environment, then -- the desktop is Development Central.
If you argue a Metro device can remote to a VM running VS, then I'd say that VM is desktop... no where to go.
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MasterPie
var genesis = 2^x
9 minutes ago, JohnAskew wrote
*snip*
Give me a Metro development environment, then -- the desktop is Development Central.
Ultimately, you're typing into a text editor, compiling, and running stuff. VS might be the best IDE right now, but who says that things have to be that way? The desktop is only an interpretation of the desired workflow, and its existence is driven by habit. An alternative interpretation might work just as well, if not better.
If you argue a Metro device can remote to a VM running VS, then I'd say that VM is desktop... no where to go.No..I'm imagining a future in which VS-future doesn't look like VS-today. Maybe it's decoupled across devices or simply across mini apps and tiles in Windows. Who knows? No one knows if it's good or bad, so I'm not sure if it makes sense to fear it, except for maybe the learning curve that comes with the transition.
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DeathByVisualStudio
If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
10 minutes ago, MasterPie wrote
*snip*
No..I'm imagining a future in which VS-future doesn't look like VS-today. Maybe it's decoupled across devices or simply across mini apps and tiles in Windows. Who knows? No one knows if it's good or bad, so I'm not sure if it makes sense to fear it, except for maybe the learning curve that comes with the transition.
When it comes down to the typing aspect the only substitute I can think of is voice recognition. While it's come a long way for regular language I don't think it works very well with the programming languages and paradigms we have to work with today. Much of that would have to be abstracted away like in TouchDevelop or Kodu -- both of which are very limited relative to what you can do with VS today.
That said I'd love to design and develop software using combinations of voice and gesture but we're a long way off.
In the end just because Microsoft needs the desktop around for guys like us it doesn't mean that much of the rest of the world can't shift over to the Windows 8 Store App environment. That will leave Microsoft with little incentive to do much with the desktop. It all comes down to what's going to generate revenue...
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MasterPie
var genesis = 2^x
51 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote
*snip*
In the end just because Microsoft needs the desktop around for guys like us it doesn't mean that much of the rest of the world can't shift over to the Windows 8 Store App environment. That will leave Microsoft with little incentive to do much with the desktop. It all comes down to what's going to generate revenue...
Yup.
But, also the "guys like us" do exist within Microsoft developing the tools and the software to support that vision. For this very fact, I don't see the desktop fading away soon.
Regardless, if you assume that metro supported dev environments (that possibly transcend device boundaries) are impossible to use for serious development purposes, then dev teams for Windows, etc.. probably would lean towards keeping the desktop environment as much as possible. On the other hand, if you allow for metro-like dev tools to actually work well for dev purposes, then it shouldn't really be an issue if the desktop stayed or didn't.
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Silverlight and WPF are no longer on my recommended list for customers.
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